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[boag]

@rebel16
Its not special pleading, its an stablished fact as a matter of Law, it is a violation of intellectual property.
if you want to act pedantic over the terms and definitions used then I will call it IP violation from now on.

#2 You still haven't established that any "basic rights of individuals" to access the property in question exist.

you can try to build up a straw man as much as you like, i will still not plant my flag on it.
I'll restate my point so you can stop playing soccer with the argument, to completely minimize piracy you either innact draconian laws or you provide the service/product in such an efficient way that it renders piracy meaningless.

The existence of piracy is not the fault of the market

Never said it was, once again you are throwing words at a ghost debater that doesnt exist.

blah blah blah

this entire diatribe is built upon a supposition that I never made, if you cant counter my arguments then just concede and move on.

it turns out that you will never be able to create an analogy that is "sufficient"

Yes you can, here is one.

Ip violation is like photocopying a test and giving it away or selling it.

learn to be more creative.

it is a deliberate action taken by a person with agency, not an uncontrollable natural phenomenon.

If its so easy to make other people do whatever you tell them, then why is IP violation still an issue?

 

[Xelarion]

Can the children trying the "Last Laugh" song and dance take it off of MangaDex? There are enough problems without intentional piss fights like this.

This translation is poor quality. That's truth, but at least it's not as low quality as some out there.

Pirating... Theft, what have you, oddly enough is not the issue here. Bringing up IP and protections/laws there of means nothing to the current situation regarding the scan itself--what someone does with their physical property ultimately falls on them, don't complain about someone else's spoiled dinner when you gladly take a plate when it's free.

If another team picks this up, the team themselves are responsible for whether their scans come from legitimate purchases or not, or if they in any way have or can get permission to do them officially... And unless you're a moderator or other site staff, the hand you reach out with isn't the law's. Calm down.

 

[rebel16]

@boag

I will call it IP violation from now on

Great! Whatever words you have to use to make yourself feel better about it, we finally agree that piracy is a criminal action taken by people who are acting under their own will and not an uncontrollable phenomenon of nature, which is the entire point I was originally making before you went off on a bunch of weird tangents.

 

[boag]

@rebel16

we finally agree that its a criminal action

We never disagreed on this.
I never refered to it as a non criminal action, I refered to it as a service problem because the best way to address it is to make your product readily available, this is the 3rd time ive stated this.
the other best way to MINIMIZE, take note and READ, MINIMIZE, is to criminalize and institute laws that deal not only harshly but also impune a persons civil liberties and basic human rights.

You cant seem to understand this simple concept which is why ive had to explain it to you several times already.

 

[rebel16]

@boag And that's the core of our disagreement: you continually misattribute the cause of the problem. It is not caused by any aspect of the market. It is caused by the behavior of individuals. It is true that making changes to the market can moderate the effects of piracy, but if you persist in viewing it as only a market issue, then you become only capable of pursuing market-based solutions. Note that I am not offering or advocating any myself, just pointing out the way in which your mistaken identification of the problem is limiting your ability to discern solutions.

 

[boag]

@rebel16
I cant believe i have to repeat this again.
Do i need to draw you a picture with crayons or something?

yes its the behaviour of individuals the source of the problem, guess what, you CANNOT control the behavior of individuals unless you pass DRACONIAN AUTHORITATIVE LAWS! which will still fail to eliminate piracy all together, just minimize it.

And between passing Draconian laws that affect the rights of the individual and allowing a more free market to thrive, the Free Market Solution is a better option.

Note that I am not offering or advocating any myself,

Of course you arent, because if you tried you would end up repeating what I just said.

just pointing out the way in which your mistaken identification of the problem is limiting your ability to discern solutions.

This is hilarious, ive already offered 2 solutions, while youve come up with nothing.

 

[rebel16]

@boag

yes its the behaviour of individuals the source of the problem

OK, good, we're finally on the same page about --

you CANNOT control the behavior of individuals unless you pass DRACONIAN AUTHORITATIVE LAWS

Oh crap, you fell off again. sigh

Look, I'm sorry your parents kept you chained in the basement until you were finally able to escape into the woods, but most people aren't forced to live like that. Oh, wait, you say your parents didn't have to do that to instill mores and beliefs into you? So there are other ways to control or modify peoples' behavior other than shoving them into concentration camps? Fancy that!

(Of course, if you are equating standard, non-controversial parenting and education systems with "DRACONIAN AUTHORITATIVE LAWS", it sounds like you have some solid material to discuss with your therapist.)

Yes, you offered two solutions. I did not say your flawed reasoning was eliminating your ability to discern solutions, it was limiting that ability. Which is why you were only offering those two solutions (over and over and over and...) and insisting that they were the only two possible solutions to manage piracy, repeatedly rejecting any and all opportunities to rethink your biases and reconsider.

And yeah, I wasn't offering nor advocating any particular actions because it's not something that is of immediate importance to me. It was clearly of importance to you, though, so I was attempting to offer you a tool to help you understand that your foundational reasoning was flawed, thereby allowing you to come to some useful conclusions rather than spouting off your false dichotomy bullshit. But, since you asked (and for future reference, there are ways of saying, "I still don't get where you're coming from; would you give me an example, please?" that don't make you come off like a complete assgoblin):

PREMISE: A non-zero number of people don't want to commit theft.
OBSERVATION: A non-zero number of people don't realize that piracy is theft.
SOLUTION: Implement educational practices to improve people's understanding of the nature and effects of piracy.
RESULT: Likely decrease in instances of piracy.

So there you go, I have demolished your claim that the only two ways to address piracy are to either allow an unmoderated free market or to ruthlessly crush the population beneath a set of oppressive legal codes. And to forestall an objection: at no time in this thread have I ever asserted that piracy must be eliminated. Its effects can be reduced, and to do so, intelligent and effective actions can be taken, but only if one is not operating from a set of incorrect fundamental principles.

The fact of the matter is, piracy will never be capable of being eliminated. Even with your fully unmoderated free market, there will always be those who steal because they simply want to. If the point were to eliminate crime, then yes, the only solutions would be to either eliminate laws or eliminate people. Ending piracy (or pretty much any crime) requires too much investment for diminishing returns. Managing piracy enables reaching an acceptable balance between profits and losses. That's why most stores' loss prevention policies don't involve machine gun nests, and it's also why people interested in productive discussions of the issue don't push for only complete eradication or complete capitulation.

So there we go. I've said what needs to be said. It's up to you now to decide whether you're going to actually listen for a change or continue letting your blatant desire to feel superior blind you to your own flaws. Either way, I'll leave you manage it on your own from here. Good luck!

 

[boag]

@rebel16
well since you dropped all pretense of holding a debate, ill respond in kind.

I cant be bothered to find a solution

yeah it was obvious from the start that you would not even attempt it.

Piracy is only an issue because people do not know it is theft if we edumacate people this will stop piracy

if you truly believe this, youre a gullible moron, but im sure this is you trying to save face and force your broken argument.

have I ever asserted that piracy must be eliminated.

And Neither have I, you can see my past 4 posts where I kept telling you the actions I mentioned would only minimize it, not eliminate, so congratulations, you still cant read and you just conceded the point I made several times.