Akatsuki no Yona - Vol. 34 Ch. 196 - Taking From Those Who Have Taken

[raineight]

"(though didn't he tell Yona it was purely out of revenge back in the beginning?)."

Could have been simplifying, giving an easy to understand reason, or not trying to justify himself to someone he just betrayed. "Your father was a shitty king" would be unbelievable to Yona at the time, and sounds like justifying himself.

Could also be author change of mind.

"I like how Soo-Won, even after knowing the king killed his brother, was ready to not get revenge on him if he became a good king."

And my impression is Yona's also inclined that way. I even used that for an RPG character inspired by her: "my uncle usurped me but he's doing okay and civil wars suck, I'll just stay out of the way."

I'm kind of disappointed by the existence of the whole "come to the capital" arc; as Yona's group became increasingly helpful and undeniable, I would have liked them getting a quiet stipend to keep running around the country, solving problems as Princess At Large.

 

[Yay4131]

@Kardelune I agree with @raineight, telling Yona he killed Il simply because he was a bad King sounds more like a justification. But he understood this was betrayal. Also, he was answering Yona's question on why he could bring himself to kill Il - because he hated him. He later tells Hak the same chapter that King Il was a terrible King and so he sent him to "hell" because the country had no need for him, showing both bitterness and lack of respect.

I think he definitely could have changed things without becoming the next King... however, I still think that the best and most efficient way to make change was by using the privileges that the throne offer. It's clearly made a point that while Yona can definitely change things from the outside as a bandit, there is a limit to what you can do. The best way to enact change is from the throne. It took years for Soo-Won to properly take on the entire continent. He aimed to protect Kouka from Kai, which Il was doing nothing for, and I think a huge part of that included controlling and utilizing all 5 tribe armies, which I doubt no one but the King can do. As Soo-Won told Kija, the only reason he became King was as a means to an end to protect Kouka from invasion. And yes, legitimacy.

Could Soo-Won have been able to pressure Il into doing the necessary things? It's possible, but it's also possible that Il would have just spouted to the tribe leaders that Yona was going to solve all their problems/warned Soo-Won to not get in his way and dictate matters for him. From what I see, Il wasn't allowing Soo-Won to enter martial arts tournaments. He was likely restricted by Il in some ways.

Also, Soo-Won sort of viewed himself as Hamlet in all this kerfuffle, and I think he felt tied by familial obligations and kinda wanted to die after everything was done. I don't deny that he had a personal stake and a blind admiration of Yu-Hon in all of this.

Finally, I agree, recently the way the author has been writing things has triggered me a bunch... lol. Sometimes I feel like crying seeing what Soo-Won has gone through. Other times, I'm not sympathetic at all. I think that has to do with how it's still very... subtle in how the manga portrays him. Unless we finally get his POV on all this, I can't really make a clear-cut judgement.

 

[luca17]

I can’t wait to see Yona’s reaction to all of this. Thank you so much!!

 

[CrystaI]

@Yay4131 @Kardelune just wanted to say I love you two and the convo you had.
The translators' notes aside (sometimes it's fun imo, but other times it does ruin the mood) a major reason why I stopped reading the Evil Twin version is cause, well, TL quality is one thing, but because of the earlier release (perhaps also cause they don't care about quality? idk xD) I find the comments section under their chapters very toxic.

I don't know how some people fail to see how grey a character Il, Soo-won, Yon-hi, Yu-hon and heck even the late King Joo-nam are. It is a tragic backstory, it is biased because it's not a objective narration, it's entirely from Yon-hi's POV; it does give us the readers a lot to think about.
I personally think Soo-won, as a 9 year old as mentioned in the story, had amazing IQ (pretty obvious) but perhaps his emotional side had not matured, which is why he thought he could treat Il and Yona differently, without links. I agree with @Yay4131, esp this part

I doubt he actually sees his friendship with Yona/Hak and revenge for Il as separate - he is just choosing to not put that friendship over the country if he plans to do the deed, otherwise he won't be able to do it. He even says that he knows he couldn't hold hope of having his friends with him if he pursued revenge, and cried on Hak's shoulder realizing that. He knows they are linked and that killing Il is a sin, and that he will lose his friends. But even so, he wants what's best for the country, and came to terms to not play favorites, so stopped himself thinking about wanting Yona/Hak seriously in his life.

But that's probably the realisation he came to after doing what he had done already. In the early chapters his thoughts were reflected (during his coronation) which I feel seals this opinion.

I also hope that Yu-hon really didn't kill Kashi, that it was a huge misunderstanding, because that just adds to the tragedy. I mean, I'm not a sadist, but some confirmation on that would shut some people up, and if it turns out that Yu-hon did kill Kashi under the guise of a bandit attack it just gives some toxic people ammunition to say that "Soo-won deserves to die" because "Il was right". On the other hand, a confirmation doesn't do anything for the plot, since Il had already decided that his brother did kill his wife.

I also saw some people (during this backstory arc when Yu-hon had laid siege to the temple and the priests) comparing modern-day society and Kouka. It's totally not a fair comparison though, and they just don't seem to understand just how dangerous a position Joo-nam and Il were in, especially as royalty. Respecting the gods is one thing, but blindly trusting them and not doing a whit, or doing everything the High Priest might ask for (just a imaginary situation) is another thing and absolutely horrible for the nation.
I'm not saying that Yu-hon is justified either, with the extremity he took it to, but hey, that's just the grey area I mentioned isn't it?

As @Kardelune said,

I feel like I'm thinking in circles, and getting a little too invested in this XD. I'm just angry darnit!
It just proves what a great manga this is that it brings up such strong feelings.

I'm the same :')

Sorry for the text wall, felt like ages before such a safe space came about for this sorta discussion.

 

[raineight]

I liked your post, Crystal.

 

[Yay4131]

@Crystal I'm also glad that this translation section is less toxic, and a safe place to discuss/debate interpretations, opinions, and theories clearly without being judged. Evil Twins scans notes definitely can ruin the mood (though I appreciate the time and effort they put to translate), and the comment sections under them are even worse and full of biases and hatred.

Regarding Soo-Won, I can understand your point of him separating Yona and Il to some extent, especially your part here

I personally think Soo-won, as a 9 year old as mentioned in the story, had amazing IQ (pretty obvious) but perhaps his emotional side had not matured, which is why he thought he could treat Il and Yona differently, without links..

I bet this also has to do with Soo-Won's response when Hak asked him what he thinks of Yona - "I like her and everyone!" (suspiciously doesn't mention Il), and how he smiled kindly and gave Yona a hairpin a few hours before killing Il on her birthday. In his mind, perhaps, to 9 year old Soo-Won, Il = evil, and Yona = good, and so why would killing a demon (Il) on Yona's birthday have any effect on Yona? ... yeah?

But surely he had to suffer from some guilty conscience from killing her father before her birthday, no? He knows Yona loved Il and vice versa. I find it hard to think that he simply thought - "Yona will not be affected at all by the death of Il, and we'll continue to be friends". I don't think he intended for her to die, but why else would he have cried (to think he finally showed emotion there!) if he hadn't realized that Hak's dream of them all sticking together was never going to happen if he did this? Why else would he have begged Hak to protect Yona if he hadn't realized that she would lose her immediate family and felt crushing guilt for being the reason?

I think learning of their deaths/his coronation definitely opened his eyes to the idea that killing Il was not separate to Yona/Hak, but not in the respect that they would no longer be friends... rather, that Il ending up dead was not separate to the possibility of Yona/Hak dying too.

I too hope Yu-Hon didn't kill Kashi, and Il misunderstood that he did. It seems too obvious for one thing. Tbh, I'm still not completely sure if it was him, or his crazy bodyguard Hyoo-Ri. I think killing Kashi would reflect badly on Yu-Hon for "accepting" that his brother became the next king, if she was the reason why Il became king. I would imagine that he would let that slide as a simple shrine priestess, unless he thought she did some other "weird" shenanigans. But idk.

I'm not necessarily sure about Joo-nam being in a dangerous position though, because he didn't seem as much extreme about religion that Il was, and his people were in prosperity for 50 years, way before Il and Yu-Hon were born.

 

[CrystaI]

@raineight thanks

@Yay4131 oh yes definitely, I'm not saying he maintained that mindset all those years up till Yona's birthday where he kills Il. Unless Kusanagi-sensei ever decides to dedicate an arc to Soo-won's POV (which would be welcome in my eyes, though how she executes it is key, of course, though many will probably hate on it), we won't really know how or if his mindset changes over the years from when he said that to Yon-hi at 9 years old, until the actual killing.

I definitely don't think that he ever wanted to kill Yona, but only had to because Yona witnessed the act and got found by Kye-sook. And logically, as the "ursurper", Soo-won would have no other choice except to kill Yona. As for whether Soo-won himself, at the very core, barring his circumstances of gathering support from Kyesook and his father's faction to become king, would have opted to kill Yona, I'm pretty sure that's a resounding no. After all, he did spare and hide Yona from Joo-doh in Awa.

The reason I said Joo-nam himself being in a dangerous position is, admittedly biased, based on Yu-hon's assessment of both his father and brother being overtly religious. Just because the reign was peaceful doesn't mean that Joo-nam may have not been like Il. Of course, looking at Joo-nam's reign vs Il's, it certainly does seem that Joo-nam was a better ruler, personality and beliefs aside. It could be argued that Joo-nam wasn't fanatical in the early stages, but maybe he became so in his later years? The crux for this, imo, is why Joo-nam chose Il to succeed him. Was it merely because of Yu-hon's seemingly dangerous violent streak? Though clearly through Yon-hi's POV, we see that Yu-hon isn't exactly a murder maniac as portrayed through Kouren's memories. Or was it only because Yu-hon attacked the priests, or that Kashi had predicted Yona's birth as Hiryuu's reincarnation? If it was any of the latter, it's not exactly a wise decision for a ruler.

 

[raineight]

And logically, as the "ursurper", Soo-won would have no other choice except to kill Yona.

Not necessarily. I don't think we know what Kouka thinks about queens regnant, especially with a close male relative (first cousin, from the elder line!) handy. Or if a married queen continues to be in charge. Even if Yona is the direct heir, he could marry her -- no objection from Yona -- and effectively rule as king or prince consort: Yona is a lovestruck and ignorant 16 year old who adores him, there's nothing obviously in the way of him having his way even if her husband isn't formally in charge.

 

[CrystaI]

@raineight oh no I meant it as Yona being Il's daughter. If Il had passed of natural causes, then what you spoke of would make sense; but not only was Il murdered, Yona witnessed the entire thing. I hardly think she'd obediently let Soo-won rule as the king or prince consort in that case; she'll definitely bring it up to court and rumours would get out to the populace eventually.

I think that given how Il had adamantly rejected Yona wanting to marry Soo-won, Yona becoming a queen regnant probably isn't a thing in Kouka then. iirc, Il had said that Yona's husband would be king and ruler of the country, and "anyone but Soo-won" would be fine with Il.

I feel that based on the naming, Kouka is loosely based off historical Korea, or maybe a blend of historical Korea and Japan. And during those times, queens regnant aren't exactly commonplace. There's a (relatively long, esp by modern standards) old Korean drama, called Queen Seon-deok that follows this princess' rise to the position of queen regnant, fighting against the prophecy surrounding her and her twin sister's birth of "'if a king has twin girls, the male seeds in the royal bloodline will dry up". While obviously the drama does contain historical elements, there are dramatised and altered elements. But I bring this up because Queen Seondeok of Silla (one of the three kingdoms of Korea) is an actual historical figure, and was the first queen in Silla's history. I just went to see what wikipedia said of her actual reign (and not how the drama depicted it) and even her rise to power wasn't an easy one. Her father actually considered the son-in-law—who was Princess Deokman's (later Queen Seondeok) sister's husband—for the succession to the throne, and Princess Deokman had to appeal to her father for a fair chance at the throne. Here's a quote:

Although it was not unusual for women to wield power in Silla (Queen Sado also served as a regent for King Jinpyeong), the thought of having a female ruler sitting on the throne was still unacceptable for most of them.

And in case anyone's interested, I got that from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Seondeok_of_Silla

Anyway, point being, based on the above notion that queens regnant may not exactly be commonplace or popular (if my guesses of inspiration for Kouka is correct), Soo-won could have indeed opted to rule as king or prince consort, given that Yona was indeed a lovestruck and ignorant 16-year-old who adored him, but you gotta remember that she witnessed Soo-won murdering her father, for reasons not entirely clear to her. I don't think that, ignorant though she was, she would've simply chosen to marry him anyway now that Il, who was the only opposing force, is gone.
Sorry for the text wall again.

 

[Yay4131]

@raineight @Crystal Speaking of which, it's not like Soo-Won didn't let Il live and rule as the king and only decided to murder him 10 years later. Maybe Soo-Won/Kye-Sook could have done the same with Yona instead, let her live (restricted) in some ways, or like, threatened her to keep her mouth shut if she wanted to stay alive.

Iirc Kye-Sook tells Soo-Won when he finds Yona, "this should be quick, kill her." As if he's glad they don't have to deal with Yona now that she saw. I'm wondering what Kye-Sook thought of Yona before all this. In the anime, he was the one chasing her instead of Hyuri, and he heard Il alleging Yona is "Hiryuu and would protect the country with the 4 dragons". I'm hypothesizing that Kye-Sook likely wanted Il AND Yona to die because he thought Yona would divide up the country, and he and Soo-Won likely argued about whether she should live and whether she was Hiryuu before the coup. It would be line with what Kye-Sook monologued when he found out that Yona was alive and found the 4 dragons - "that is why I said we should kill Princess Yona." As well as his monologue: "to think the 4 dragons would appear here and now... if only Lord Yu-Hon were alive to see it."

 

[raineight]

Ah, I thought you meant Soo-won had to kill Yona no matter what. No, I agree that given she saw him, killing her seemed the thing to do. But if she hadn't seen it, he could have married her after some suitable mourning of the king's assassination by mysterious 'bandits'.

Kouka is very obviously 'Korea' from the geography and most of the names. Three Kingdoms Korea, with Kouka probably as Goguryeo, and 'China' or Kan to the north. (Loosely speaking. I don't think historical China extended that far north at the time.)

*Most* of the names, because you get Japanese-ish names like Hiryuu, Yoshino, or Kashi.

Huh, the Yona wiki claims 'Yona' is from Hebrew for 'dove'. I am skeptical that's the actual source. Then again, we have a 'Zeno', which sounds Greek to me. :O

 

[CrystaI]

@Yay4131 well from what I see of Kye-sook, he likes to nip things in the bud. I doubt he had thought that Yona would've gathered much power at the time of Il's death, but just wanted to avoid further trouble.

@raineight well, given the circumstances of how Yona saw everything, and Soo-won trying to unite the country, he couldn't afford anything averse to his name, per se. Even though Mun-dok sorta saw through it anyway.
He could have, but I don't think he would have. I feel like, knowing about the scarlet disease (was that the term, or did it change? eh.) he might not want to have offsprings.
Yeah, loosely speaking. The names throw me off too, they're influenced with a mix of Korean, Japanese, and even Chinese (with Xing, especially). As you said, clearly Japanese-ish names too. It'll be really interesting to hear Kusanagi-sensei's "inspiration" for names, or just the general concept of the Yona-verse.

Haha yeah Zeno's a wild card, both in the story and the name itself. I doubt 'Yona' was meant to be Hebrew per se, though that is interesting. Given that Yona wants peace, and doves are a symbol of peace.

 

[raineight]

'Yona' sounds to me like it could be a straight-up Japanese or Korean name. OTOH I'm not seeing obvious hits, if you search for 'Yona' the anime dominates results. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yona -- Asian term for Greeks!

 

[CrystaI]

@raineight Yeah same to me, haha
:O that's an interesting find!

 

[The_Crimson_Moon]

At this point, the story is now justifying Il's death. And sort of Yu-hon's. It'll only be completely justified if Yu-hon truly killed Kasha.
Honestly, now Soo-won's actions seem pretty logical and reasonable, and you really can't say otherwise. Il needed to die. He was a horrible king and killed Yu-hon. That is enough reasons for Soo-won to kill him in return.

The only obstacles to his revenge and rise to power was Yona and Hak. But even though Soo-won chose revenge and the country over his relationships with the two, you can't say that it was the wrong choice. As a ruler, you must make sacrifices. That's just part of being a good king.

The only wrong thing, the only thing that really can't be justified, was being friends with Yona and Hak. That was cruel. Immensely cruel. If he knew he was going to kill Il back when he was nine years old, he should have never built such a strong relationship with Yona and Hak. And that's no one has more of a right to hate Soo-won than those two. But on the other hand, I hope they do forgive him. Because I feel if they continue to hate him, his actions can be rationalized more? His behaviour can be defended? I'm not sure how to explain this, but I feel that by continuing to hate him, that acts as punishment for his sins. And his guilt will lessen? But on the other hand, if they forgive him, he would feel more guilty. He'll suffer more. Which is something he deserves in my opinion.

Not sure if this makes sense, but yeah.

 

[kvoriz]

This is making me so sad... Soowon as a 9 year old is more mature than most adults oh my god...

 

[Slein105]

This kid is clearly a sociopath

 

[Majuwu]

Omg like what??? So Soo wons father killed Yonas mother and that's why Yonas father killed Soo wons father and that's why Soo won killed Yonas father wtfffff

 

[akisame]

Yuhon was a genocidal maniac who massacred entire scores of innocent civilians for his imperialistic gains. He also ruthlessly murdered harmless priests because he was a fanatical atheist. Even if he didn't Kashi, he never would have made a good king. In fact, the only reason why Soowon's reign hasn't gone to utter shit is because Yona has been there every step of the way to minimise bloodshed and prevent any genocides from incurring. Yuhon got what he deserved. He was a disgusting despot. Anyway, I hope Yona overthrows this dumb shit. Soowon's a sociopath.

 

[stressedcoffee]

oh my.
yuhon > kasha
il > yuhon
soo won > il

all because both yuhon and il could never see eye to eye.
though i appreciate how soo won tried to assess he situation for a long time before striking.