Alphanumeric support for chapter number
- Thread starter Varric
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@AbyssalMonkey—
Very true, but few instances could be found of a chapter having a combination of divisions with supplements totaling more than twenty six, and the OP (@Varric) is apparently asking for a parallel system, rather than for an end to number-point-number designations.
On the other hand, I note that use of whatever alphabet that the OP has in mind is less wide-spread than is use of digits ‘0’ through ‘9’. Should “14Б” be accepted?
Very true, but few instances could be found of a chapter having a combination of divisions with supplements totaling more than twenty six, and the OP (@Varric) is apparently asking for a parallel system, rather than for an end to number-point-number designations.
On the other hand, I note that use of whatever alphabet that the OP has in mind is less wide-spread than is use of digits ‘0’ through ‘9’. Should “14Б” be accepted?
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@Varric—
Which alphabets would be used, and (as per @AbyssalMonkey's comment) what principle of collation is to be followed when there are more parts than characters in the alphabet?
Which alphabets would be used, and (as per @AbyssalMonkey's comment) what principle of collation is to be followed when there are more parts than characters in the alphabet?
Eliminating practical ambiguity would involve protocols that would baffle or offend many uploaders. If letters become allowed, they will be used differently by different uploaders, compounding the confusion of readers.
If that opinion were universal, then the prevailing system would not have been adopted.
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As I've said in the OP, the alphabet that a and b is in.
I didn't even ask for more than A-Z.
I don't give a shit if other groups abuse or use it wrongly, it's not my problem.
It objectively looks shit.
Our next release is another non-numbered short, which we have until now listed as X.5 releases, so to maintain consistency it's going to look like 14, 14.2 (Two halves of an actual chapter),14.5 (Non-numbered chapter, a skit or short intermission bonus chapter etc if you will), that'll look great.
Please add.
I didn't even ask for more than A-Z.
I don't give a shit if other groups abuse or use it wrongly, it's not my problem.
It objectively looks shit.
Our next release is another non-numbered short, which we have until now listed as X.5 releases, so to maintain consistency it's going to look like 14, 14.2 (Two halves of an actual chapter),14.5 (Non-numbered chapter, a skit or short intermission bonus chapter etc if you will), that'll look great.
Please add.
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@Varric—
The characters ‘a’ and ‘b’ appear in more than one alphabet. You offer no reason why an alphabet in which they appear should be used as opposed to a different alphabet.
You offered confusion of the readers as an argument for use of a system including an alphabet. Now you say that you don't give a deposit of faeces about differing use, which would cause even greater confusion.
Your remaining argument is an aesthetic claim that you make baldly. Again, if everyone thought that the present system looked worse than one that used letters, then the present system wouldn't have been adopted here.
The characters ‘a’ and ‘b’ appear in more than one alphabet. You offer no reason why an alphabet in which they appear should be used as opposed to a different alphabet.
You offered confusion of the readers as an argument for use of a system including an alphabet. Now you say that you don't give a deposit of faeces about differing use, which would cause even greater confusion.
Your remaining argument is an aesthetic claim that you make baldly. Again, if everyone thought that the present system looked worse than one that used letters, then the present system wouldn't have been adopted here.
the problem with only digits is that sometimes the uploaders have not idea how many parts an author may release a chapter as
you may have 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, ... 4.10, 4.11, ... 4.100 in that order
however people may understandably get confused with 4.100 > 4.2
as a number 42/10=4.2 > 4.100
it may also cause further parsing issues, some software may parse the chapter numbers as numbers
on the other hand, there is no such problem with alphabets, aa > b, just like Excel default column numbering
you may have 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, ... 4.10, 4.11, ... 4.100 in that order
however people may understandably get confused with 4.100 > 4.2
as a number 42/10=4.2 > 4.100
it may also cause further parsing issues, some software may parse the chapter numbers as numbers
on the other hand, there is no such problem with alphabets, aa > b, just like Excel default column numbering
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@freelance—
Stan Kelly-Bootle once explained “It takes two to intuit.” A lexical ordering (such as that provided by Excel) is only one of various orderings that have been or might be used. You can find systems in which “aa” immediately follows “z”.
Reader confusion about the collation is not much of an issue, because the site imposes a collation order; in reading, I know that “14.13” follows “14.2” because the presentation makes it follow. And third-party software that were written without learning the collation order would almost surely have a variety of other bugs.
Uploader confusion is a more significant potential problem; I'm not aware of uploaders expressing confusion under the present system, but they would if the proposal of the OP were adopted.
Replacing the used of labels such a “4.1” is not under consideration. The OP did not propose it, and such a proposal would be rejected by groups that prefer the present system. What is under consideration is also allowing labels such as “14b”. And that then introduces the new question of whether a chapter labelled “14b” comes before or after one labelled “14.1”; because some uploaders will designate their chapters one way and others will designate theirs the other way. Some uploaders would use “14.1” for the first part of chapter 14, and “14a” for the first supplement to chapter 14; others would do just the reverse.
Stan Kelly-Bootle once explained “It takes two to intuit.” A lexical ordering (such as that provided by Excel) is only one of various orderings that have been or might be used. You can find systems in which “aa” immediately follows “z”.
Reader confusion about the collation is not much of an issue, because the site imposes a collation order; in reading, I know that “14.13” follows “14.2” because the presentation makes it follow. And third-party software that were written without learning the collation order would almost surely have a variety of other bugs.
Uploader confusion is a more significant potential problem; I'm not aware of uploaders expressing confusion under the present system, but they would if the proposal of the OP were adopted.
Replacing the used of labels such a “4.1” is not under consideration. The OP did not propose it, and such a proposal would be rejected by groups that prefer the present system. What is under consideration is also allowing labels such as “14b”. And that then introduces the new question of whether a chapter labelled “14b” comes before or after one labelled “14.1”; because some uploaders will designate their chapters one way and others will designate theirs the other way. Some uploaders would use “14.1” for the first part of chapter 14, and “14a” for the first supplement to chapter 14; others would do just the reverse.
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@BzzBzz—
Either way, it is math. What it isn't, with “14.13” ≻ “14.2”, is arithmetic. But the point that I made in objection to the supposed intuitiveness of “z” ≻ “aa” also applies also to the supposed intuitiveness of “14.13” ≻ “14.2”. It doesn't have to be that way.
Nonetheless, the uploaders seem all to know that “14.13” ≻ “14.2”, and the site takes care of the readers, whereas God knows what the uploaders would do with “14b” relative to “14.2”.
Either way, it is math. What it isn't, with “14.13” ≻ “14.2”, is arithmetic. But the point that I made in objection to the supposed intuitiveness of “z” ≻ “aa” also applies also to the supposed intuitiveness of “14.13” ≻ “14.2”. It doesn't have to be that way.
Nonetheless, the uploaders seem all to know that “14.13” ≻ “14.2”, and the site takes care of the readers, whereas God knows what the uploaders would do with “14b” relative to “14.2”.
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Is this about Mieruko-chan "Chapter 14, Part 2"?
As far as I know, there are few if any technical hurdles preventing us from allowing letters in chapter numbers (aside making a couple of things a bit more inconvenient for me to support in the reader). In fact, letters used to be allowed but were later disabled on grounds of, from what I understand, forcing a more uniform and standardized look and interoperability between alternate group releases (e.g. when Group A decides to use 14.2 and Group B 14b).
In my personal opinion multipart chapters should always use numbers instead of letters based on some factors such as the scanlators not necessarily knowing how many parts a chapter is going to have. Look at the final chapters of Mob Psycho 100 for an example: the scanlators would've run out of letters if they had been used to number the parts. What muddies the waters somewhat is the practice of extra/omake chapters using the X.5 (and even X.75 etc) notation, which if looked at in isolation isn't necessarily enough to tell you if it's an omake chapter or the fifth part. If anything, I would rather allow notating omakes with letters than multiparts.
As far as I know, there are few if any technical hurdles preventing us from allowing letters in chapter numbers (aside making a couple of things a bit more inconvenient for me to support in the reader). In fact, letters used to be allowed but were later disabled on grounds of, from what I understand, forcing a more uniform and standardized look and interoperability between alternate group releases (e.g. when Group A decides to use 14.2 and Group B 14b).
In my personal opinion multipart chapters should always use numbers instead of letters based on some factors such as the scanlators not necessarily knowing how many parts a chapter is going to have. Look at the final chapters of Mob Psycho 100 for an example: the scanlators would've run out of letters if they had been used to number the parts. What muddies the waters somewhat is the practice of extra/omake chapters using the X.5 (and even X.75 etc) notation, which if looked at in isolation isn't necessarily enough to tell you if it's an omake chapter or the fifth part. If anything, I would rather allow notating omakes with letters than multiparts.
