Behemoth no Hanamuko - Ch. 16

[TL-Law]

That's the thing, there will always be a wide spectrum of ideologies inside any thinking community ranging from malevolent, to benign, to benevolent. Humans and practically every race or species irl and in fiction exhibits this factor. So it's become a bit of a pet peeve when a race or species as a whole get labeled evil in need of removal.

That's not to say there isn't true evil out there, only that a character's justifications falls apart when there is clear, unrefutable proof to the contrary right in front of them, and it is either ignored or deemed an acceptable sacrifice for some "Greater Good".

In a way humanity is seemingly to blame for Anomalies & Yōkai’s very existence. Their tales, myths, urban legends, perceptions, and imaginations of these creatures influences their appearance (subject to change from generation to generation), powers, durability, and maybe even their personality & behavior. So far the only exceptions to this rule are the Yōkai wanting to just live in peace rather than playing up to their lore, and God creating Behemoth before stories were ever told or written about her, in fact, he wanted that to happen.

It seems God also plays a factor in all of this. Tsukinami did say that Ayame (and maybe other anomalies) could potentially mate with humans, if people desired it. Tōjurō wished for a normal life, a romantic relationship, and to better understand the mind of anomalies. Behemoth was interested in human festivals, civilizations, cultures, foods, and technologies. She hates being left alone, doesn’t take pleasure in wreaking havoc, like the Yōkai, she too wanted to live in peace. The moment Tōjurō & Behemoth encounters each other, they became engaged to each other; and Behemoth gains a human form that was never mentioned in the Bible. As a result of their engagement, Tōjurō & Behemoth were given a variety of powers, both of them are at their strongest when they’re together, and as their marital bond increases so does their power and abilities. Did God intend for humans & Anomalies to coexist like this instead of feuding with each other? There’s also a chance that Tōjurō & Behemoth might not be the first, and only interspecies couple.

 

[TL-Law]

I agree here. You have a guy with no problem controlling creatures, leading attacks on others, and attacking his teammate (the MC). Then he disappears with some teleport gimmick and begins to another attack. Give that guy a permanent headache. It would stop the eventual 'gets free, fight again' trope.

I feel the bigger problem is this is going to lead to an eventual war between EXORZ, and the Yōkai. Killing Jashid would’ve just added more fuel to the fire.

Tōjurō’s actions so far might even trigger dissension amongst EXORZ. Can’t rule out the possibility of higher powers manipulating conflict within EXORZ for shits and giggles.

 

[Miserys_End]

I feel the bigger problem is this is going to lead to an eventual war between EXORZ, and the Yōkai. Killing Jashid would’ve just added more fuel to the fire.

Tōjurō’s actions so far might even trigger dissension amongst EXORZ. Can’t rule out the possibility of higher powers manipulating conflict within EXORZ for shits and giggles.

There should already be a big kerfuffle brewing within EXORZ. iirc the woman who trained Tōjurō, or was part of his first team, was rather emotionally attached to him. So it's not like there isn't already some rather powerful people spoiling for a fight.

On the flip side of that coin, the behind the scenes manipulation is the exact hypocritical behavior that pisses me off the most. The team lead at least has a valid emotional stake in Tōjurō's relationship with Behemoth. Some random Exec putting their finger on the scale because their bored and in search of their own personal amusement should be removed abuse of power and breach of company policies.

Yeah it's a rather idealistic PoV that mimics our irl reality, but that just makes me hate it all the more...

 

[TL-Law]

There should already be a big kerfuffle brewing within EXORZ. iirc the woman who trained Tōjurō, or was part of his first team, was rather emotionally attached to him. So it's not like there isn't already some rather powerful people spoiling for a fight.

On the flip side of that coin, the behind the scenes manipulation is the exact hypocritical behavior that pisses me off the most. The team lead at least has a valid emotional stake in Tōjurō's relationship with Behemoth. Some random Exec putting their finger on the scale because their bored and in search of their own personal amusement should be removed abuse of power and breach of company policies.

Yeah it's a rather idealistic PoV that mimics our irl reality, but that just makes me hate it all the more...

You’re right Kaminuma, EXORZ’s JP President, only provided support with the intention to tame Behemoth; in his defense, EXORZ’s US President forced Behemoth on him, Kaminuma is simply trying to turn a negative into a positive. He did say no one has successfully tamed Anomalies, much less harnessed their power (further explains Jashid & his CO’s actions). It seems like he might be developing a change of heart; On Suzune’s Deluxe Edition Chapter, he was actually helping Tōjurō & Behemoth train while they waited for their guests. (Agent) B, Kaminuma’s female subordinate, seems to have adopted Sea Serpent. It’s beginning to look like Tōjurō & Behemoth’s actions are having an effect on the JP branch. The exorcists from the EU Branch (Not sure if they were from France or Germany) seem to be friendly towards Behemoth. Though, it’s hard to tell if they’re just playing their role. Those dude bros were obsessed with writing a detailed report on “Interspecies Breeding”…

Even Quatre who went from distrusting Behemoth to wingmanning her & Tōjurō (even threatening a fellow EXORZ exorcist), it’s sometimes hard to tell if he’s doing it for the job or not. He has shown more restraint when dealing with Anomalies. Tōjurō’s rubbing off on him. Though, he was mostly absent during Jashid’s assault against the Spirit Realm. Don’t know if he was observing the situation from afar, or was ordered not to interfere.

Even Hóng Shé is slowly beginning to see things Tōjurō’s way. She’s also slowly coming around to Behemoth, granted she still sees her more like a love rival than an enemy. She’s gonna lose her shit over Tōjurō & Behemoth’s romantic relationship. Jashid’s actions against Tōjurō are gonna make her go on a rampage…

Based on Jashid’s comments, Tōjurō & Behemoth are already the talk of EXORZ for better, and for worse. They’re already famous amongst Tama’s inner circle (which is why she sent Ayame to reach out to them), and now they’re famous with the rest of the Yōkai in the Spirit Realm.

 

[RealCS]

That was... anti-climatic?

 

[Darkshade13]

I always hate the way manga have to write around saying something that would be a surprise or later spoiler with "that person/thing/place" when the characters are clearly in the know and are only being obtuse for the audience's benefit.

Nobody talks like that. When Jashid gets cornered and asked if "that person" sanctioned his mission, there's no way they wouldn't just use the name. It's such a transparently lazy cover for bad writing that can't find a better way to be secretive about what they want to withhold and can't prevent the characters from skirting spoiling it for the audience. And the result is a grossly unnatural bit of dialogue that only calls more attention to what's happening.

There's nobody else present that they have to be secretive in front of either. It'd make sense if they had an in-universe audience to hide their intentions from, but most of the time when manga break out that obvious,obnoxious vagueness it's in a situation where there is no risk of anything getting out except to the readers.

Do better.

 

[AncientWatcher]

Such a heartwarming moment, and here's a heretical asshole trying to kill them.

I forgot how big Behemoth is in her big sister form.

 

[TL-Law]

I always hate the way manga have to write around saying something that would be a surprise or later spoiler with "that person/thing/place" when the characters are clearly in the know and are only being obtuse for the audience's benefit.

Nobody talks like that. When Jashid gets cornered and asked if "that person" sanctioned his mission, there's no way they wouldn't just use the name. It's such a transparently lazy cover for bad writing that can't find a better way to be secretive about what they want to withhold and can't prevent the characters from skirting spoiling it for the audience. And the result is a grossly unnatural bit of dialogue that only calls more attention to what's happening.

There's nobody else present that they have to be secretive in front of either. It'd make sense if they had an in-universe audience to hide their intentions from, but most of the time when manga break out that obvious,obnoxious vagueness it's in a situation where there is no risk of anything getting out except to the readers.

Do better.

The funny thing is in JP it’s usually written as “あの人/Ano Hito”. However, Suzune wrote this one as “あの方/Ano Kata”, it has an honorific tone to it. It means “That Gentleman” or “That Lady”, it can also mean he & she. The problem here is there isn’t enough evidence to confirm who exactly Jashid’s boss is, which is why Ink, and I decided to go with “that person” just to be safe.

There’s a chance it could be that Nun from the end of Chapter 5 that commands Hóng Shé & Elsie. It could also be Hóng Shé who is a captain of an elite exorcist unit, if it is her, Jashid’s seriously in deep shit…There’s the possibility that he’s following direct orders from any of the EXORZ presidents.

As for Quatre’s interrogation, it’s a little vague if he meant the mission in general, the would be assassination attempt on Tōjurō & Behemoth, or all of the above. Behemoth is protected by Kaminuma, and the JP Branch. Watching over Tōjurō & Behemoth is a part of Quatre’s duty, he had every right to hold Jashid at gunpoint.

 

[Darkshade13]

The funny thing is in JP it’s usually written as “あの人/Ano Hito”. However, Suzune wrote this one as “あの方/Ano Kata”, it has an honorific tone to it. It means “That Gentleman” or “That Lady”, it can also mean he & she. The problem here is there isn’t enough evidence to confirm who exactly Jashid’s boss is, which is why Ink, and I decided to go with “that person” just to be safe.

There’s a chance it could be that Nun from the end of Chapter 5 that commands Hóng Shé & Elsie. It could also be Hóng Shé who is a captain of an elite exorcist unit, if it is her, Jashid’s seriously in deep shit…There’s the possibility that he’s following direct orders from any of the EXORZ presidents.

As for Quatre’s interrogation, it’s a little vague if he meant the mission in general, the would be assassination attempt on Tōjurō & Behemoth, or all of the above. Behemoth is protected by Kaminuma, and the JP Branch. Watching over Tōjurō & Behemoth is a part of Quatre’s duty, he had every right to hold Jashid at gunpoint.

To be clear I'm not faulting the translation. I understood, and based on your explanation here was probably correct in doing so, that you were limited by how the original lines in Japanese were structured. You can only work with what you're given and I have no issues with anyone who has to figure out the best way forward within that restriction and without actually re-writing the original dialogue.

No, I'm entirely faulting the writing convention of Japanese, or at least of the manga industry based on my experiences, that seems to allow and encourage vaguely using "this person" and other similar phrases to hide someone's identity regardless of whether or not the characters speaking are aware of it. There isn't evidence for the audience to guess who the boss is, but the conversation sure makes its seem like both Jashid and the other guy in the glasses (whose name I forget) are aware of their identity. At least So the dancing around naming them and using "that person" (whatever specific form it takes) is just to shield the audience so they can do a dramatic twist reveal to the audience later on.

My complaint with that is that the author is sacrificing natural, sensible, realistic dialogue just to write around their own clumsiness of putting themselves in the position to need there to be a conversation about the boss between characters in the know without tipping off the audience. They could've written the conversation itself or altered its premise in a way that dodges having to chafe up against naming the boss in such a clumsy way, but they didn't.

Have glasses guy unaware of who's pulling the strings and ask Jashid who authorized his mission. Have Jashid then taunt him and say he won't tell. There, now you've given the audience the same tease of there being a mystery boss without having to write it in a way that just barely stops short of literally redacting the name in the dialogue bubbles.

 

[TL-Law]

To be clear I'm not faulting the translation. I understood, and based on your explanation here was probably correct in doing so, that you were limited by how the original lines in Japanese were structured. You can only work with what you're given and I have no issues with anyone who has to figure out the best way forward within that restriction and without actually re-writing the original dialogue.

No, I'm entirely faulting the writing convention of Japanese, or at least of the manga industry based on my experiences, that seems to allow and encourage vaguely using "this person" and other similar phrases to hide someone's identity regardless of whether or not the characters speaking are aware of it. There isn't evidence for the audience to guess who the boss is, but the conversation sure makes its seem like both Jashid and the other guy in the glasses (whose name I forget) are aware of their identity. At least So the dancing around naming them and using "that person" (whatever specific form it takes) is just to shield the audience so they can do a dramatic twist reveal to the audience later on.

My complaint with that is that the author is sacrificing natural, sensible, realistic dialogue just to write around their own clumsiness of putting themselves in the position to need there to be a conversation about the boss between characters in the know without tipping off the audience. They could've written the conversation itself or altered its premise in a way that dodges having to chafe up against naming the boss in such a clumsy way, but they didn't.

Have glasses guy unaware of who's pulling the strings and ask Jashid who authorized his mission. Have Jashid then taunt him and say he won't tell. There, now you've given the audience the same tease of there being a mystery boss without having to write it in a way that just barely stops short of literally redacting the name in the dialogue bubbles.

Fair enough.