Boku no Kokoro no Yabai Yatsu - Vol. 2 Ch. 23 - I Heard Love Talk

[Darklight99]

@KazumaLee94
-None of those friends are guys
-Regarding the umbrella situation, you're acting as dense as rom-coms protagonists.
-Youre trying to spin a very obvious hint about Yamada's affection towards Ichikawa into a joke. Just read the comments in that chapter, there were tons of subtle hints that she likes him

Add her giving him valentine's chocolates,her waiting for him by his cycle, as others said, plenty of things she wants to do with her boyfriend are things she did with Ichikawa.

I'm not saying that she's head over heels for him, but she obviously likes him. It's shown over and over again through subtle hints, what do you want here? An internal monologue? For once we get a good rom-com which doesn't rely on stupid cliches but shoes how middle schoolers with a crush on each other act like.

 

[KazumaLee94]

@Darklight99
I'm not "trying to spin" these scenes to fit my interpretation better. I base my interpretation of the story on the entire work, or in cases like this, what we got so far. I don't isolate one scene and interpret it however I want.

I look at how Yamada acts around Ichikawa and compare it to how she acts around everyone else, particularly her friends. When I do that, I see nothing substantial enough to suggest that Yamada views Ichikawa differently than how she views her friends. It doesn't matter if Yamada's friends are all girls.

Even with the valentine's extra chapter, if you take out the date on the chalkboard, you just have another chapter of Yamada giving Ichikawa some of her snack after playing a game. Like I said before, she shares snacks with her friends all the time. Also the chocolate Yamada gave aren't necessarily what you would call "honmei".

I don't need things spelled out to me. I don't need to see Yamada's internal monologue detailing her innermost feelings. I don't need shoujo love bubbles in the background to indicate a love scene. I don't need characters to proclaim their love every chapter. However, whenever I look at a supposed love story, I would expect there to be some form of romantic chemistry between the two leads. And in the case of this manga, as of this chapter, I don't see that from Yamada's end.

You view this as the manga not relying on clichés to tell a love story. I view this as the author is failing to convey a sense of romance that isn't one sided from Ichikawa's part. That is if the author is even trying to frame Yamada's feelings to Ichikawa as romantic which part of me thinks that the author isn't aiming for that at this point in the manga.

We both seem to agree that Yamada isn't head over heels for Ichikawa, however I think you might be misunderstanding what I'm saying. It's not that I don't see Yamada ever developing romantic feelings for Ichikawa down the line, I just don't think she has those romantic feelings for him, as of this chapter. That's it. No need to call me dense for not seeing what you do. I certainly don't think less of you for interpreting Yamada's actions towards Ichikawa as romantic.

 

[Shootyagoo]

@KazumaLee94

I give this essay an A+.

 

[BDM130]

@KazumaLee94

It’s a slow romance she doesn’t like him for real yet but she’s very interested, she focuses on him more than anybody and she was jealous in McDonalds that chapter until she found out it was his sister. She’s likes him now but doesn’t exactly know it yet.

But look at the raws that are available, very interesting stuff going on.

 

[zerio]

Lol that smug from Hara

 

[cor3zone]

@BDM130 Given that the story is told mostly from MC's perspective, of course she focuses on him more. Every single social interaction MC has is with her, and since just MC being anti-social by himself would be boring, all we see is them interacting.

If the story was told from her perspective, our MC might just be a footnote in comparison with the rest of her social life.

 

[Swifft]

@KazumaLee94 I think that if most people gather it's romantic and she likes him, it's not a failure on the author's part that YOU haven't gathered that. That's disingenuous and bad faith as hell. If you haven't gathered it, YOU haven't, which was why you were called dense. Your wording is also surprisingly harsh, and the amount of words doesn't convey reason, it conveys over-thinking. Really my main issue here is claiming that your personal issue, that few if any others have, means that the author has done a bad job and not that you haven't been paying the bare minimum amount of attention.

 

[cor3zone]

@Swifft The one being disingenuous here is you. Several people have already agreed with @KazumaLee94 in this thread, and I do as well. They're not alone. I also know the person they were debating with is a troll. I have seen @Darklight99 switch sides in an argument, just to keep it going. I've even experienced it myself.

If you think that was surprisingly harsh, why do you seem to be even harsher right now? Using difficult words doesn't make you seem any more reasonable either.

 

[Swifft]

@cor3zone Nothing I said was harsh. I'm not really interested in any sort of spat or argument either. If telling it like it is seems harsh, I don't know what to tell ya.

edit: Wait, when did I use difficult words? I also never said alone, I said "a few" and yes, four people is a few.

 

[cor3zone]

@Swifft You implied they were stupid:

the amount of words doesn't convey reason, it conveys over-thinking.

Also this:

That's disingenuous and bad faith as hell.

In comparison, @KazumaLee94 was being quite reasonable:

Look, I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone or say that you are wrong for interpreting the story so far differently from how I interpret it.

And:

No need to call me dense for not seeing what you do. I certainly don't think less of you for interpreting Yamada's actions towards Ichikawa as romantic.

They said nothing bad about their opponent, and even acknowledged that others' opinions are just as valid as their own. Not harsh in any meaning of the word.

"Difficult words" was me implying you're stupid, and using 'big' words to cover it up. Sorry.

Edit: You capitalised "YOU", implying they're the only one. Also: "few if any others have" means you doubt in others agreeing with them.

 

[Swifft]

Over-thinking is over-thinking, it has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with how much care or thought one gives to something.

I already said my issue. Calling something a failure due to your own interpretation demonstrating a lack of attention paid is bad faith. It's criticizing based off of personal issue rather than based on the work itself, truly. The arguments made were essentially dismissing what many have read as interest and reading them instead as non-interest, dismissing the significance of Yamada (who doesn't talk with boys) taking interest in a boy, ignoring her own actions to make contact with him despite times when she wasn't even alone but was actually with friends (culture festival, restaurant), dismissing how she plainly came up with a plan to wrap herself in Ichikawa's raincoat despite having a perfectly functional umbrella and lying about it (sure she got snacks, but it's Yamada, of course she got snacks). Looking at him, giving him chocolates, explicitly trying to create events for interaction of a more intimate variety (IE: the raincoat chapter); these are all the author's way of subtly but not outright conveying her interest in him. To dismiss it and say the author has failed is pretty fucked up, frankly. Naturally, I would call that out.

 

[cor3zone]

@Swifft 'Interest' does not equal 'romance'. Yamada is definitely 'interested', but the only 'romance' so far is completely one-sided from Ichikawa. If the author was trying to convey a mutual romance then yes, they did fail. Which is all that was said in regards to 'failure'.

I've seen plenty of evidence suggesting it might just be platonic interest. I have yet to see a single piece of evidence irrefutably suggesting romantic interest. All I've seen is personal interpretations of that same 'platonic' evidence trying to make it seem 'romantic'. By your own logic, personal interpretation used to dismiss something is bad faith and disingenuous. Which means, so far all of us are disingenuous and acting in bad faith, even you.

 

[Swifft]

That doesn't make sense.

 

[cor3zone]

Fair enough, I guess. I don't think your logic makes sense either.😉

 

[jinter]

TL;DR: pay attention to the art, it's not that hard.
OK, here is the thing about this manga, a lot of the info is in the art and not the dialog, you need to pay attention to expressions, interactions, little details and all that, you never are going to see Yamada's thoughts, unless Norio decides to changes perspectives. Yamada is interested in him, this is much is clear, you don't interact with people you aren't interested in, the distance between them gets closer and closer with each chapter, at this point she probably sees him as a friend, she is not in love with him yet, you will notice when things start to go down and even then you need to pay attention to the art, to the small details and all that.
A lot of people misinterpret this manga because they don't pay attention to the art (Norio's art isn't that good, I'm not praising the art), Ichikawa isn't a murderer in the making, he is just a kid that likes edgy shit, if you pay attention to the art you could see it in the way he moves and how he acts and not in the things he thinks.

 

[KazumaLee94]

@Swifft
You really didn't argue against what I was saying. You just said that I'm overthinking things while also not paying attention to the manga. The fact that my comments in this thread refers to multiple scenes/chapters from the manga and comparing how Yamada acts around Ichikawa and how Yamada acts with the rest of the cast proves that's not the case.

The fact that my interpretation differs from you doesn't imply that my logic is flawed or that I don't understand the story, just like how your interpretation differs from mine doesn't mean you're not understanding the story. Media is open to multiple interpretations, each of them just as valid as the last.

Also I only implied that the romance was a failure on the author's part if the author intended to frame Yamada's actions towards Ichikawa, as of this chapter, as romantic. And like I said before, part of me thinks that the author is not intending to have Yamada have romantic feelings for Ichikawa right now, but rather have her develop said feelings over time. In all fairness, I probably should've used a word less harsh sounding than "failure", however if the author did intend to have Yamada already have feelings for Ichikawa, then in my opinion, he came up short.

One more thing. It's weird that you're saying I'm being harsh while you're calling me and other people dumb for interpreting the manga differently than you.

It's fine if you think that Yamada currently has romantic feelings for Ichikawa. As I said previously, that's a perspective that you are more than within your right to have. I just don't see any feelings of romantic attraction from Yamada's end, and from the looks of things, from comments from people like @cor3zone I'm not the only one here who does.

I don't think you are wrong for thinking Yamada likes Ichikawa romantically, I just think you're overreacting to seeing people have a different perspective than you.

 

[cor3zone]

Well put, @KazumaLee94

 

[jinter]

@KazumaLee94
Yamada doesn't interact with boys the same way she does with Ichikawa, this put Ichikawa in a different plane than the other boys. Now look at the way she looks at him in chapter 1, now look at the way she looks at him in chapter 14 and to end it, look at how she looks at him in the extra 19.4 (everything is cannon btw). I have reread this shit a lot of times, Yamada likes the guy, she isn't in love with him yet, but it has been built up correctly, there are more examples that relates to the way Yamada behave, at the start she didn't really shared things with him, now she does, she is more aware of him and approach him regularly, she really didn't talk much with him at the start.
Norio is a she btw.

 

[cor3zone]

@jinter Couldn't load 19.4, but the difference between 1 and 14 seems like it could just be her warming up to a friend. It's been said, Yamada is a total airhead. A lot of what she does with her female friends could be interpreted as romantic interest, but they're still just friends. Why does it have to be romance just because Ichikawa happens to be male? So far, she's not treated him in any 'special' way compared to her friends.

 

[jinter]

@cor3zone the thing is Yamada doesn't act with Ichikawa the same way she does with her friends, she really doesn't have much physical contact with him. All her interactions with him are always in a secret way never really in the open (she says something in his ear or looks at him, but never interact with him in from of others), She does treat him differently. Like I said, she likes him and those feelings are growing and they are going to blown into love, heck you are going to see the exact moment it happens.