Boukensha License wo Hakudatsu Sareta Ossan Dakedo, Manamusume ga Dekita no de Nonbiri Jinsei wo Oukasuru - Vol. 3 Ch. 10.1
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@boag 'kid' is relative. In some eras people were trying to -have- children at 15. She's mature enough that she was going to try and live on her own, and was actually running a store or something in the other town.(As well as trying to scam people) so she's not really a 'kid'. She just simply is young. But even if she was a 'kid' that doesn't really negate what's been said. It just adds another element into the decision of whether or not you decide that her behavior is 'okay'. Which is just a matter of opinion. It doesn't nothing to change the fact that her behavior is 'illogical' and 'rude' and 'ungrateful'.
Edit: Correction, the running the shop was the lie she was telling, but she was still traveling independently and living on her on her own for a period while scamming people.
Edit: Correction, the running the shop was the lie she was telling, but she was still traveling independently and living on her on her own for a period while scamming people.
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Sexually abused child with deep-seated trust issues lashes out at man who removed her only motivation in life. I don't see what there is to complain about. This all makes perfect sense. It's not like she's really done anyone any harm at all either. Let her lash out.
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Just throwing it out there, but she was being super nasty to MC long before she found out that he was the one who helped the orphanage. Not that I particularly care either way about the argument everyone is enjoying.
@boag So you're now saying "It's okay because she's 15" That's stupid...for one, she is technically a criminal, and even our current society doesn't just ignore that because they're kids. Secondly, even today, we expect 15 year olds to interact properly with people and the ones that act like assholes get called out as assholes. They don't get a freepass. You're just coming up with excuses for her.
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Yep, knew it, her backstory's not enough to justify anything. Hope she doesn't tag along or anything after this.
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@tip390 And still your argument is wrong, Like I said you're going about this whole problem with the mindset of a normal people, not of a person on the edge. The fact that the result would be the same is absolutely of 0 importance to the problem at hand. Like I said. what's important here is the acchievement, that was the girl's objective, and it was stolen from her.
"What you said is a baseless assumption and the definition of projecting"
Am I the one who's projecting here? Do you know that the usage of "you" doesn't necessarily mean "your person" but any or every second or third person around? You exists in plural too, and you may or may not have been considered to be in the mix, when I said you. THIS is a baseless assumption.
"If I mention the fact that I've been through plenty of traumatic things in my life"
It wouldn't help, a person in trauma isn't a person that went through a traumatic experience, it's a person who never managed to left it behind, who still has it follow them around in every single aspect of their lives, unable to escape.
"You wanna know how I know this? "Her original problem after receiving her freedom was not the MC being "too late" or her being too traumatized already. Her original problem was her already too defiled body as stated by her own words. Her body being too defiled would have been an issue with or without the MC being involved so, therefore, her logic is flawed. Why is this so hard for people to realize?? I could be wrong but it seems to me that people can't look past her trauma and look at the situation as a whole objectively."
That's the whole freaking problem here, you're talking about a person's emotions, there's no such a thing as objectivity in this subject. It's one thing to talk about a theory or political side, logical thinking only applies to logical situations. When it comes to personal relationships, it's all about points of view and personal experiences between individuals(Yes, not yours, but the individuals in question), you can certainly pick a neutral pov and call her a bitch by looking at the situation from afar and analizing the causes and effects of the whole situation. I don't think I need to tell you that this is the wrong way to go about it, as it's the very thing I'm criticizing here.
By coldly analizing the situation wthout taking either the MCs and the girl's pov your are doomed to reach the wrong conclusion because you aren't properly factoring each characters personalities and knowledge into the mix.
This part in itself shows that you're commiting the exact problem I'm talking about: "Her original problem after receiving her freedom was not the MC being "too late" or her being too traumatized already. Her original problem was her already too defiled body as stated by her own words."
This is a clear case of misunderstanding, her being "too defiled" only relates to her return to the brothel instead of seeking a free life outside it, and not an explanation of her mindset and personality, this doesn't explain her reactions in the least as it isn't supposed to explain it. At the end of the day the problem stays the same she hasn't solved her issues with the orphanage, and now she never will. In which my original explanation finally takes it's place. Stop acting like a third person, "third person's" don't have the right to judge anything when it comes to personal emptions between characters when they aren't related to the situation. If you want toproperly judge the situation you have to look throur the perspectives of both characters and only them judge who you think is right or who you think is wrong.
"What you said is a baseless assumption and the definition of projecting"
Am I the one who's projecting here? Do you know that the usage of "you" doesn't necessarily mean "your person" but any or every second or third person around? You exists in plural too, and you may or may not have been considered to be in the mix, when I said you. THIS is a baseless assumption.
"If I mention the fact that I've been through plenty of traumatic things in my life"
It wouldn't help, a person in trauma isn't a person that went through a traumatic experience, it's a person who never managed to left it behind, who still has it follow them around in every single aspect of their lives, unable to escape.
"You wanna know how I know this? "Her original problem after receiving her freedom was not the MC being "too late" or her being too traumatized already. Her original problem was her already too defiled body as stated by her own words. Her body being too defiled would have been an issue with or without the MC being involved so, therefore, her logic is flawed. Why is this so hard for people to realize?? I could be wrong but it seems to me that people can't look past her trauma and look at the situation as a whole objectively."
That's the whole freaking problem here, you're talking about a person's emotions, there's no such a thing as objectivity in this subject. It's one thing to talk about a theory or political side, logical thinking only applies to logical situations. When it comes to personal relationships, it's all about points of view and personal experiences between individuals(Yes, not yours, but the individuals in question), you can certainly pick a neutral pov and call her a bitch by looking at the situation from afar and analizing the causes and effects of the whole situation. I don't think I need to tell you that this is the wrong way to go about it, as it's the very thing I'm criticizing here.
By coldly analizing the situation wthout taking either the MCs and the girl's pov your are doomed to reach the wrong conclusion because you aren't properly factoring each characters personalities and knowledge into the mix.
This part in itself shows that you're commiting the exact problem I'm talking about: "Her original problem after receiving her freedom was not the MC being "too late" or her being too traumatized already. Her original problem was her already too defiled body as stated by her own words."
This is a clear case of misunderstanding, her being "too defiled" only relates to her return to the brothel instead of seeking a free life outside it, and not an explanation of her mindset and personality, this doesn't explain her reactions in the least as it isn't supposed to explain it. At the end of the day the problem stays the same she hasn't solved her issues with the orphanage, and now she never will. In which my original explanation finally takes it's place. Stop acting like a third person, "third person's" don't have the right to judge anything when it comes to personal emptions between characters when they aren't related to the situation. If you want toproperly judge the situation you have to look throur the perspectives of both characters and only them judge who you think is right or who you think is wrong.
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I dont know what makes you guys so angry about her, she distrusts people and that's all. She hates MC, so what? Someone hating other is nothing new. She didnt do him any harm and even force him to take money.
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@BloodySorcerer Well, we clearly have different views of this chapter, this argument, and life in general. At this point, I could go and explain all the things wrong with your comment but I'd rather just agree to disagree. The main point of my comment was just that she's illogical and here's why. How you interpret that proof is up to you, but I backed up my comment with quotes from the chapter so I've done my job here.
IMO: She's not a good person so why defend her???
IMO: She's not a good person so why defend her???
@__TheOne__ Actually she almsot did do him harm when she tried to scam him, but that's separate. The reason people are mad at her though is because she's an 'annoying' character that serves no purpose to the story thus far. TO a lot of people it feels like a bitchy character was added for the sake of adding a bitchy character. And for some reasons people want to tell those people that they can't be annoyed at this character and that they have to give her a free pass because of her trauma.
@boag that isn't even an argument, I'm sorry but that's just unintelligent statement. That has little to do with her being a 'kid'. Also for the record that happened back in olden times already, and they were still more mature. So there's also counter evidence to your statement. The only reason we as modern people don't see 15 as mature is because we found out your brain isn't fully grown then so we collectively decided that "There is no way you can be mature then" which is just wrong. There are 12 year olds who take care of their siblings and cook for them cause their parents are hardly home. In Japan a significant number of students live on their own once they enter high school. There have been kings and queens and pharaohs under the age of 18. The idea that "because you're young you can't be mature" is just dumb. Human history has constantly proven that is not the case. Kids are so immature now because we let them be. Not because it's some kinda thing predetermined by age.
and @BloodySorcerer you just said we're talking emotions and objectivity can't apply. But that means this works entirely on opinion. So you can't tell people they have to forgive her because we're no longer dealing in the concrete but with emotions and opinion, so everyone will have a different view. You can decide to forgive her if you want, but that doesn't mean everyone else should and it doesn't mean everyone else will understand her. Because we're dealing with 'illogical' emotions.
@boag that isn't even an argument, I'm sorry but that's just unintelligent statement. That has little to do with her being a 'kid'. Also for the record that happened back in olden times already, and they were still more mature. So there's also counter evidence to your statement. The only reason we as modern people don't see 15 as mature is because we found out your brain isn't fully grown then so we collectively decided that "There is no way you can be mature then" which is just wrong. There are 12 year olds who take care of their siblings and cook for them cause their parents are hardly home. In Japan a significant number of students live on their own once they enter high school. There have been kings and queens and pharaohs under the age of 18. The idea that "because you're young you can't be mature" is just dumb. Human history has constantly proven that is not the case. Kids are so immature now because we let them be. Not because it's some kinda thing predetermined by age.
and @BloodySorcerer you just said we're talking emotions and objectivity can't apply. But that means this works entirely on opinion. So you can't tell people they have to forgive her because we're no longer dealing in the concrete but with emotions and opinion, so everyone will have a different view. You can decide to forgive her if you want, but that doesn't mean everyone else should and it doesn't mean everyone else will understand her. Because we're dealing with 'illogical' emotions.
@boag I know you wont shut up even if I lay out facts for you, but I'm going to do it anyway for everyone else's sake.
Here is saying in the Qing dynasty in china, nearly all prostitutes were slaves. And I don't think I need to explain how likely it is for slaves to be orphaned.
As for a counter argument, I think I listed one by explaining the fallacy of the view that age does not control maturity. But let's assume she is a 'kid' as you would like to call her. Then she should be treated like a child. Rude children are disciplined. Also children do not hold jobs(which I might add she's doing) So then we should take away her ability o earn money, because kids can't legally enter contract. So now all her money had to be given to an adult first before being given to her, she can't manage her own funds now. Oh, she also can't decide her own life course yet really, it's up to her guardian, so she can't go work anywhere else until her guardian signs off on it. Also her guardian should give her a spanking and send her to her room as punishment for being rude, like parents do to kids. She also can't go on trips anymore by herself because she's so immature. And she should've been disciplined for trying to 'run away from home' when she left and came back, since she's just a 'kid' after all and not a mature independent individual.
Now you write off my 'wall of text' as assumptions, but how about you present some counter arguments or proof that my assumptions are incorrect? After all you asked me to provide such, why can't you?
Edit: @boag An addition, because I realized you might not be in the know for more common knowledge This shows that marriageable age in china for women was 15 during the Qing dynasty, and that article I linked above shows that slave/prostitutes of marriageable age were often released. This means that 15 year old girls who were prostitutes at an age younger than 15, were expected to have the maturity needed to get married.
Here is saying in the Qing dynasty in china, nearly all prostitutes were slaves. And I don't think I need to explain how likely it is for slaves to be orphaned.
As for a counter argument, I think I listed one by explaining the fallacy of the view that age does not control maturity. But let's assume she is a 'kid' as you would like to call her. Then she should be treated like a child. Rude children are disciplined. Also children do not hold jobs(which I might add she's doing) So then we should take away her ability o earn money, because kids can't legally enter contract. So now all her money had to be given to an adult first before being given to her, she can't manage her own funds now. Oh, she also can't decide her own life course yet really, it's up to her guardian, so she can't go work anywhere else until her guardian signs off on it. Also her guardian should give her a spanking and send her to her room as punishment for being rude, like parents do to kids. She also can't go on trips anymore by herself because she's so immature. And she should've been disciplined for trying to 'run away from home' when she left and came back, since she's just a 'kid' after all and not a mature independent individual.
Now you write off my 'wall of text' as assumptions, but how about you present some counter arguments or proof that my assumptions are incorrect? After all you asked me to provide such, why can't you?
Edit: @boag An addition, because I realized you might not be in the know for more common knowledge This shows that marriageable age in china for women was 15 during the Qing dynasty, and that article I linked above shows that slave/prostitutes of marriageable age were often released. This means that 15 year old girls who were prostitutes at an age younger than 15, were expected to have the maturity needed to get married.
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@WillLi
Once again you are using assumptions to push your argument.
There is nothing in the links you provided that references this, all it deliniates is that women were pretty much traded like cattle in ancient china, a practice that is still prevalent to this day and age.
Once again you are using assumptions to push your argument.
A yes, im sure the kids working factories in the pre-industrial era pretty much adults, and I will not quote or link anything to prove this point, because that seems to be acceptable debating strategy for you.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708
@boag Ouch, you messed up. See what you just did there was make your entire argument invalid. You just posted that our brains are not fully developed until 25. However, You're considered an 'adult' between 18 and 20 around most of the world. This means that before your brain reaches full development you can be mature enough to be independent. So I will not posit that that means that age does not solely determine maturity. And that someone who's brain is not fully developed can be mature enough to be an 'adult'. Now see you have to now prove that while that is possible at 18, it is not possible at 15. Otherwise anything you say about it is pointless because you can not prove that it is 'impossible' for this girl to be mature at 15.
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