Chainsaw Man - Ch. 169 - Hands and Adaptation

[Boots]

What chapter 167 are you reading? That man felt good during it.

She kissed him, then they kissed together, then they started making out while she fondled his junk for four pages straight. Literally no refusal on Denji's part after Yoru stops trying to crush his balls.

Where does the "violation" occur in this timeline? With her kissing him initially? When she was trying to crush his balls because her original plan was to castrate him? Because the latter's non-sexual assault, which-- ironically-- hardly anybody mentions.

Where does the "forced mindbreak" happen? When he kisses her back? This isn't even the first time they kissed, and he liked the first time, too-- so when does he get mindbroken by what happened in chapter 167?

I'm not sure if we're reading the same 167 either, I went back and checked again and no - Denji's completely short-circuited and only autopiloted by the basest animal instincts, and the repeated makeouts are all initiated by Yoru each time. That's part of what makes the whole thing so unpleasant to read for some people - Denji has no idea what the fuck is going on throughout the whole thing.

I'm not saying it's literally mindbreak (though you could certainly argue that his brain clearly fell apart during that mess and he's still not fully recovered), I'm saying it's not like a mindbreak hentai where the person in question "feeling good" and going along with it halfway through retroactively counts as consent.

This all doesn't bother me because it's a fictional story and this stuff is very explicitly being depicted as an awkward and bad thing that has happened, but some people are put off by it and brushing that off as somehow not genuine is just stupid.

 

[home7]

That lack of hesitation with the chopsticks

 

[catsdontsmile]

Finallyyyyyu! Close to see Nayuta!

Dude... Clear case of that's her head on a pike

 

[dsfargeg]

I don't personally consider Denji a victim (as much as a participant in blatantly and extremely unhealthy relationships) but it's not like people saying he's a victim have nothing to stand on. He got violated without his consent, "feeling good afterward" doesn't suddenly make it okay - the world isn't all forced mindbreak hentai.

If by "without his consent" you mean "didn't submit prior written authorization in triplicate to the appropriate parties" then yes, he didn't consent.

Now the functioning human beings that deal with the things in the real world and understand teenage relationships aren't anything like that, those guys have a different opinion. Especially the ones who are able to interpret and read non-verbal cues, who understand that most people are driven by base urges.

 

[Dennis-aka-Denji]

It's kind of jarring how much Fujimoto's artistic skills have become dull when compared against his illustrations in Part 1.

Disagree completely, if anything I think it improved. But most of you seem physically welded to the childish idea that more details=better art.

 

[Ironclad]

I hope he doesn't go along with what this plot armor asshole is saying.

 

[DarkeLourd]

Where does the "violation" occur in this timeline?

Personally I'm on the fence on how to categorize the back-alley handy, but he says it didn't feel as good (physically) as jerking himself off does and I think it's worth asking why not. Maybe it's just Yoru's lack of experience and the fact that she only has one arm, or maybe it's because deep down he knows it isn't what he wants.

I do think that maybe the discussion is too focused on the word "victim" here, because although Denji is absolutely a victim in other contexts in his life, it's deliberately not as clear-cut here. But what I think IS definitely true is that Yoru took advantage of him, and that's still a bad thing.

 

[Eighty-six]

I'm not sure if we're reading the same 167 either, I went back and checked again and no - Denji's completely short-circuited and only autopiloted by the basest animal instincts

...so, he was very horny?

I really don't like conjecturing what I'm about to say, but I think it's aggressively relevant here: I don't think most of the people crying foul about this have been anywhere close to a spontaneous sexual encounter of any kind-- and that's assuming that they're being genuine and actually read the manga.

and the repeated makeouts are all initiated by Yoru each time.

Not any time past the first one-- the second time, it's only clear that they're kissing each other. It's also extremely clear that, when they started making out properly, Denji was participating in the act rather than just letting the kissing happen to him.

I'm saying it's not like a mindbreak hentai where the person in question "feeling good" and going along with it halfway through retroactively counts as consent.

That wasn't "halfway through". It was nearly at the start of her change of plans. He was trying to push her off because she was originally resolved to castrate him and made that clear-- he then stopped trying that after the kissing started.

Personally I'm on the fence on how to categorize the back-alley handy, but he says it didn't feel as good (physically) as jerking himself off does and I think it's worth asking why not. Maybe it's just Yoru's lack of experience and the fact that she only has one arm, or maybe it's because deep down he knows it isn't what he wants.

He literally said that his heart felt really nice despite the handjob itself not feeling as good as when he does it himself. It is right there, on page 5. He is saying this in his own thoughts. If you can't trust him in the one space not laid bare to other people, where he doesn't at all have to pretend, I don't know what to say.

For what it's worth, I know exactly how Denji feels. Had a remarkably similar experience back when I was around his age. I also know what it's like when your body goes on autopilot from palpable sexual tension-- it's happened to me twice (though the first time I still had just enough restraint to do no more than pull the woman into forehead touching, and she just intuited that I wanted a kiss).

 

[the_legendary_klobb]

It's kind of jarring how much Fujimoto's artistic skills have become dull when compared against his illustrations in Part 1.

Maybe that's the work from his assistants back then?

 

[the_legendary_klobb]

Yeah, I don't trust this fucker at all. He could just be invoking Nayuta's name to gain Denji's protection.

 

[RafaelShiori]

its not looking good..

 

[Assaultsquirt]

A serving of medium fatty tuna for 40 yen is freaking cheap and that crazy wall of conveyor belt sushi that is PARADISE I hope they have a CSM Sushi collab

CSM is set in the 90s. Using the exchange rate from 1995, the middle of the decade, 40 JPY = 0.012 USD, or just about $0.50 in 1995 money. If you use the inflation rate calculation from before the Clinton years - when the "basket of goods" used to calculate inflation was adjusted so 20% inflation prior would be about 4.8% inflation after - the dollar has lost just around half its value in the 30 years since. That means that that 40 JPY is more or less $1 per piece in real terms in today's money.

So yeah, that's going to be between $0.90 and $1.00 per depending on what exact year this takes place in.

 

[Senpaithatfriendzonesyou]

With how things just went, there better not be anything with bodily fluids in there... 🤮

I am waiting for her to go "semen sword" and a sword made of cum appears. We did NOT see her wash her hand. We also know that emotional weapons are going to be pretty dangerous, like uniform sword, so in all likelihood this will be the "excumliber" or something absurdly overpowered.

I feel like he is lying or she is not in a good state of being.

My hunch is that Nayuta is far more dangerous than denji, and that she took control of the situation almost immediately. Remember that it took a huge effort to stop Makimia and could only be done by denji. I was half expecting Nayuta being fed in that store. No, odds are she has taken over the chainsaw man cult, and when we get there she will be leading the "control cult" and she is going to take charge of this situation, and she will SMELL denji's scent on ASA and things will get VIOLENT.

 

[Drunkendeathknight]

Damn this is the first time in a very long while Denji actually felt strongly motivated

Im going to say it, this is CSM, this is Barem.. there is a non 0 chance the sushi contains Nayuta. Of all people why did it have to be him..

 

[Drunkendeathknight]

It's kind of jarring how much Fujimoto's artistic skills have become dull when compared against his illustrations in Part 1.

Yeah this is the first time I thought it looked almost hideous. I dont need end of part 1 hero of hell kind of quality in every chapter but damn.

 

[Dennis-aka-Denji]

CSM is set in the 90s. Using the exchange rate from 1995, the middle of the decade, 40 JPY = 0.012 USD, or just about $0.50 in 1995 money. If you use the inflation rate calculation from before the Clinton years - when the "basket of goods" used to calculate inflation was adjusted so 20% inflation prior would be about 4.8% inflation after - the dollar has lost just around half its value in the 30 years since. That means that that 40 JPY is more or less $1 per piece in real terms in today's money.

So yeah, that's going to be between $0.90 and $1.00 per depending on what exact year this takes place in.

IIRC Denji met Makima in 1997, so this could be after the 90s. Keep in mind tho that this isn't our reality, plenty is different in Denji's world (the USSR still exists, for instance), so who knows how the exchange rate evolved.

 

[FearlessDawg]

Denji and Asa are both sexual assault victims by Yoru's hand. Yoru used Asa's body without her consent and Denji, still completely dulled by grief mind you, shut down when Yoru began jerking him off.

Anyone that dares say Denji's not a sexual assault victim in this case is not only illiterate but also just braindead

 

[Assaultsquirt]

IIRC Denji met Makima in 1997, so this could be after the 90s. Keep in mind tho that this isn't our reality, plenty is different in Denji's world (the USSR still exists, for instance), so who knows how the exchange rate evolved.

That is also true. But it's likely the money is still somewhat comparable because there is no Hyperinflation Devil nodiffing the Gun Devil and Chainsawman.

 

[Eighty-six]

...and Denji, still completely dulled by grief mind you, shut down when Yoru began jerking him off.

Anyone that dares say Denji's not a sexual assault victim in this case is not only illiterate but also just braindead

"Dulled by grief"? "Shut down"? Take a vision exam, and then read pages 14 and 15 of that chapter. And then read page 5 of this chapter.

This may be worse than when people claim Shinji Ikari's a coward who needs to nut up and save the world while others try to sympathize with Shinji like the aforementioned isn't a false premise to begin with-- since Shinji's rather proactive considering that piloting EVA is integral to his character motivations.

Yoru didn't even start jerking him off until after they started kissing-- before then, she was trying to crush his testicles, because her original plan was to cut them off. It's like you didn't even glance at the chapter.

 

[joellybean]

What chapter 167 are you reading? That man felt good during it.

She kissed him, then they kissed together, then they started making out while she fondled his junk for four pages straight. Literally no refusal on Denji's part after Yoru stops trying to crush his balls.

Where does the "violation" occur in this timeline? With her kissing him initially? When she was trying to crush his balls because her original plan was to castrate him? Because the latter's non-sexual assault, which-- ironically-- hardly anybody mentions.

Where does the "forced mindbreak" happen? When he kisses her back? This isn't even the first time they kissed, and he liked the first time, too-- so when does he get mindbroken by what happened in chapter 167?

I can agree on the fact that he might have felt good during it, it's just the context where it all happened that is so fucked up. Denji was and still is very devastated abput the fact that he didn't know if Nayuta was alive, for all he and us as readers could see, he saw his apartment and his family blow up. He's also starving at the time and he even thought his pp was getting cut; the violation occurs since there was no context or asking for consent from Yoru/Asa's part to do anything with Denji; the lack of explicit consent and the mental state which Denji is in is what literally makes it a sexual assault