Content tag addition/discussion thread

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

Spoiler

Aw no sauce

Spoiler

@MadeOfMAgicAndWires "This is definitely the case. Basically, the rule of thumb seems to be anything with the loli tag seems to have pretty much have a sexual or romantic context in some way, regardless of Ecchi or Smut tag.
You might get a few false positives if you choose to block this tag, but to be perfectly honest, not much of worth will be lost."

I beg to differ.

@MadeOfMAgicAndWires

... while mental disorders don't explicitly entail self-harming behaviour they are also already covered by the "Psychological" theme tag...

I thought psychological tag is reserved for mind games rather than mental unnormalness?


Oh yeah I also +1 a torture tag, just as a step above phys and/or psych abuse. It's like smut and ecchi.

+1 for "explicit" tag for nipples. Ecchi can be tastefully censored or just show nipples. Imo I don't think it matters if the original censored it or whether the scanlators decide to redraw, if the version on MD has nipples then MD tags should warn the readers of it. But I would have no problem with this tag not existing considering that I don't read ecchi and smut in public anyway.

@Teasday I mean, we can always update the descriptions whenever the need arises so my description seems like a good enough base to start on.

 

[Teasday]

_{@Vofuro posted:}

(Not to mention that saying mental illnesses is a content warning like sexual violence or gore... that can be taken as offensive and is quite rude, just saying. Theme tag would be fine, but content warning not)

Well yeah

_{@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN posted:}

+1 for "explicit" tag for nipples.

Why would nipples make a difference

 

[LoneWizzy]

@Teasday as you can see from the examples i gave, 2 of them has one panty shot in 30 chapters and it has ecchi tag without smut tag, the other 2 has full on nudity entire chapter every chapter with bunch of sexual innuendos and thats also called "ecchi"... As it is we might as well remove ecchi tag because it serves no purpose, i actually stopped using tag based search for ecchi content on this site... It is like "romance" tag on Myanimelist, doesn't mean anything anymore

>Why would nipples make a difference
Some people only reads uncensored ecchi manga with nipples, some others strictly hate nudity/nipples and refuse to read anything that has nudity, its a simple but helpful tag and as i repeated too many times in my posts probably, a tag that always existed in many sites since the dawn of internet for a reason... I can understand someone who doesn't regularly read ecchi content might not understand why it matters but it does matter for some people at least(to give an even more spesific example: i have a friend who reads literally every isekai but skips everything that has ecchi tag until i read and confirm to him it doesn't have nudity, or me who doesn't read ecchi manga if it is censored)😅

@Vofuro and no sadly thats not how it works, seinen doesn't mean its going to be more explicit than shounen... To Love Ru Darkness and Fairy Tail are both shounens and i hope i dont have to explain what these two sharing exact same tags mean and how helpful ecchi tag is for the ecchi readers using this site.... And no its not really that problematic because you should add those tags based on raws, not scanlators' uploads because i rarely see scanlators going out of their way to censor things themselves... And again in worst case just check the nudity tag from baka-mangaupdates, this is something many sites on the internet already do and have done for many years, its nothing new...

 

[kenx]

I come to insert myself in the discussion!

@Teasday

Why would nipples make a difference?

Don't you remember the tale of an imageboard that had a problem because of this very same issue?
But I agree that, should it be implemented, it'd need to have some kind of "rule of presence" for a manga to be tagged like that.
Also, @LoneWizzy raised an interesting point. Should tags be put according to the state of the raws? Or the state of scanlation?

 

[BestBoy]

@kenx Probably state of the raws since multiple groups can scanlate the same thing with one censoring (why tho?) and the other not. Speaking of which, would reuploading scanlator censored chapters without the censors fall under 2.3.2?

 

[LoneWizzy]

@kenx @DANDAN_THE_DANDAN
Honestly out of all the ecchi manga i've read i think i've seen 1 scanlator group that censored the manga on their end for trolling purposes, other than that it's usually pretty obvious what raws scanlators use and upload. Even in the case tankoubons uncensoring later on it should be pretty easy to make that change if scanlators reupload.It's kind of like adding "tragedy" tag based on things that happens later on in the series...

Ojousama no Shimobe is the best example to what you are asking. Scanlators are simply replacing censored version with uncensored version as tankoubons come out.

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@BestBoy Well you just complicated things, by a lot.

 

[kenx]

@LoneWizzy

it should be pretty easy to make that change

Would it, really? I mean, in terms of effort. Sorry, not that knowledgeable about scanlations.

Also, @Teasday, is quoting with names one of your powers as dev or are you just cheating and making it look like that?

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

Do it like this

[ quote][ sub]@name posted:[ /sub]

Yare yare[ /quote]

_{@kenx posted:}

Would it, really? I mean, in terms of effort. Sorry, not that knowledgeable about scanlations.

 

[kenx]

_{@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN posted:}

Do it like this

I knew it was cheating!
Also, why would @BestBoy comment complicate things?

 

[Teasday]

_{@LoneWizzy posted:}

as you can see from the examples i gave, 2 of them has one panty shot in 30 chapters and it has ecchi tag without smut tag, the other 2 has full on nudity entire chapter every chapter with bunch of sexual innuendos and thats also called "ecchi"... As it is we might as well remove ecchi tag because it serves no purpose, i actually stopped using tag based search for ecchi content on this site... It is like "romance" tag on Myanimelist, doesn't mean anything anymore

I don't necessarily disagree that Ecchi, as it stands, could be divided and a new term added. I've wondered aloud a few times if we should do it, but finding a good term and defining the dividing line despite popular usage isn't necessarily easy. If that's what the Explicit tag is about then I misunderstood, I was thinking it would be used as an additional tag.

The point remains that nipples specifically strike me as a weird thing to focus on. Just having visible nipples doesn't inherently make a work explicit, let alone sexual.

@kenx Off-topic, but I'll respond quickly: I wrote myself a userscript to do the quoting automatically but I haven't wanted to implement it since it doesn't work properly (it doesn't take any tags into account among other things and, yes, it's just cheating by using

sub

for small text). Also, the forums are going to be replaced soon enough anyway.

 

[Vofuro]

ahm. yeah.
I quite possibly avoid ecchi unless the story really, really interests me. So no, I have no clue about the details.
(Also, once the current ecchi/nudity discussion is settled, I'll update the list and repost it.)

Also, @LoneWizzy raised an interesting point. Should tags be put according to the state of the raws? Or the state of scanlation?

This is getting complicated quickly. And all over nipples xD
Like, isn't it bad either way? Once nipples are shown or semi-shown (hello censor), shouldn't there be a tag? Unless it's not meant to be sexual, of course. But I can't remember any manga where there was continual nudity and nothing sexual about it.

 

[LoneWizzy]

The joke here is that non-smut ecchi is done in two ways(At least in this site):
Type 1- Implied sexual themes/jokes: Sexual jokes and innuendos accompanied by occasional panty shots. This type of manga uses some lewd topics occasionally but it's main focus is not the fanservice or the ecchi bits are used for jokes(would be something like PG13)
Examples: Seitokai Yakuindomo, Fairy Tail, Kishuku Gakkou no Juliet, Eguchi-kun Doesn't Miss a Thing, Fechippuru, Henjo, Jahy-sama wa Kujikenai!

Type 2- Visually arousing/fanservice: This type goes all out with drawing naked chicks doing naked things, even without any implication of sex it goes pretty hardcore with its content. (would be something like R15)
Examples: To Love Ru Darkness, Saotome Shimai, Kunoichi no Ichi, Isekai Onsen

Type 3- Smut: Nudity is expected like Type 2 but also explicit sexual acts shown or stated openly.(would be something like R18)

As it is these two types of manga both are considered non smut ecchi manga and share the exact same type of tags. But Type 1 is usually stuff you can even read in class while Type 2 is stuff you will probably want to read after locking your door 😅...

To differentiate Type 1 from Type 2 requires existence of another tag: "nudity" or completely erasing "ecchi" tag from type 1. And yes nipples do matter, nipples will be the difference in probably being banned from tumblr/facebook/x forum. Altough i agree on "nipples don't inherently make something explicit" when it comes to something that's already tagged ecchi, then nipples %100 makes something explicit and sexual even without any form of sexual intercourse... And the best part is this "Nudity" tag also exists in many sites that lists manga so implementing it would be a breeze...

 

[Teasday]

_{@LoneWizzy posted:}

And yes nipples do matter, nipples will be the difference in probably being banned from tumblr/facebook/x forum.

Ah yes, the "female-presenting nipples" issue

Well the good news is that we're not tumblr/Facebook, beholden to the sensibilities of advertisers, or American, so whatever the dividing line would be can be drawn according to whatever actual useful distinction we can think of.

Adding a Nudity tag that can be applied without any regard to the Ecchi/Smut/Hentai distinction would be pretty simple, but since it would apply to every hentai title ever I guess it would have to be specifically left out from those.

 

[MadeOfMagicAndWires]

I still don't see what's the difference between these suggested NSFW/Explicit/Mature/whatever tags and the Ecchi and Smut tags that we already have.

Practically? Not much. In my case I mostly came up with it in relation to your call for "positive" content tags, mostly in relation to Hentai and Gore readers. In terms of use-case it'd be very small but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway. I freely admit that it's lowest on the list of priority.

---

I don't know how separating Ecchi into two tags would work though; there certainly is a difference between sexual humour and fanservice but in practice you'll often find that they go hand in hand. Most Especially considering most fanservice panels of some kind are played off as slapstick.
And although it's wide breadth does make it somewhat omnipresent and useless, I do think manga readers develop a certain savvy surrounding this, and can make some assumptions on what extent they can expect from a single title based on its other tags, cover, and description.

---

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN

I thought psychological tag is reserved for mind games rather than mental unnormalness?

That is what most users will use it for but if you look at its actual description it's just anything that goes into depth about the mental state of its characters. If you look at Hikaru to Tomo as an example you'll see that it's tagged with Psychological despite definitely having no mind games of any kind.

I find the tagging of mind games as "Psychological" to be misuse of the term, especially considering we already have the well established genre of Suspense that much better fits that type of content. Blame it on edgy teenagers whose minds are blown by reading Death Note for the first time.

 

[Teasday]

To comment more clearly about the nipples thing, there's a good bunch of manga that would still firmly qualify in the "Type 2" fanservice tier that either have only their tank raws uncensored (Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san (I think), Ojousama no Shimobe (although we use mostly tank raws)) or otherwise practically revolve around a fanservice concept without really going all the way to nudity (Ashigei Shoujo Komura-san, Amano Megumi wa Suki Darake). Not sure how the lack of nipples in particular would keep them distinctly separated from something like Saotome Shimai.

 

[kenx]

_{@Teasday wrote}

or American

France? Or Moldova?

_{@Teasday wrote}

Not sure how the lack of nipples in particular would keep them distinctly separated from something like Saotome Shimai.

It boils down to particular sensibilities of the one judging. (And like I mentioned before, it has happened before when a mod in the /a/ board of 4chan started banning everyone who even posted a sliver of a nipple, even spoilered and/or thread-related). If you do include that tag, define some very specific rules for it or a very real shitstorm will ensue in the future.

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

+1 for "nudity"

@kenx Isn't the rule of presence enough? Also we're just gonna be tagging mangas and not banning people. It shouldn't have a controversy unless people want to make it controversial in which we can just ban them for trolling.

Also, out of topic, but what are we planning for hentai tags? Nhentai have some really, really niche tags like "wormhole", "penis birth", etc. Also can we please take a page out of Tsumino and make "happy sex" a tag? Not all vanilla are happy sex but all happy sex are vanilla.

 

[Jumballi]

@Vofuro I completely agree on you statement on how 'mature' could be a bit confusing of a tag when taken out of context. However, I'm also going to have to backtrack on my defense for 'NSFW'. As I see it, all manga is 'NSFW', if you're reading it at work and the boss see's you, you're probably getting the can. On top of that, where would you start to enforce it, at the first instance of a panty shot? If there, then almost all posts would have it and it'd be a useless tag. 'Explicit' is a bit better, until we get into the fact that it may only cover (definition of Explicit: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/explicit ) content and could fail and being a blanket tag for content that may trigger someone.

@Teasday finding the middle ground in what you said about not seeing a difference in the previously stated suggestions. I'm shifting my suggestion to 'Sensitive Content' or 'Sensitive Material'

My major points for doing so is that;
1. The previously mentioned proposed tags are difficult to justify on their own because of differing definitions for some people.
2. Quite a few people have brought up similar definitions in a blanket term tag.
3. A blanket tag would address more nuanced and difficult to answer tags that may not get added.
4. It acts as the starting point for trigger tags, anything that can trigger someone is sensitive material.
5. There is no rule saying a tag can't be two words.

 

[LoneWizzy]

(Ashigei Shoujo Komura-san, Amano Megumi wa Suki Darake)

sure they are fetish manga but they still mostly play out like mainstream manga revolving around that as a setting

Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san, Ojousama no Shimobe

Both of them still has a lot of uncensored nudity chapters uploaded to the site so whether you go by raws or mangadex uploads still warrants a nudity tag

@AbyssalMonkey @Teasday oh yeah definitely, sorry if it sounded like i want a change in ecchi tag. Ecchi tag is fine as it is and if we add nudity tag on top of the existing ecchi and smut tags i think there would be no problem with accessing/picking up stuff to your liking when it comes to ecchi content. I used Type1 and Type2 as examples to how those two types can have different demographics and addition of a nudity tag alone will make it easier to have at least an idea which type an ecchi series belongs to without having to read the whole thing. Sure there will still be exceptions but it will still make things so much easier for readers without having to read every single ecchi manga and will reduce the amount of people complaining about things they expected but didn't find or finding something more than they wanted...