Dekisokonai no Himegimi-tachi - Vol. 4 Ch. 23 - Love Doesn't Need a Reason

[ZeeZle]

@mirewitch While I do think Izumi's actions seemed manipulative you must understand at the same how absolutely scared and terrified she was of losing what she held probably the closest to her, seeing the girl she loves so dearly slowly drifting away towards another. She held the tears and fear she had behind her smile but god damn imagine the anxiety she had and the tears she probably cried to herself knowing that, while her society is slowly more accepting of lgbt individuals she'd still be shunned and would lose another important friend she loved. So much inner turmoil.

But obviously I'm not saying this to excuse her actions, simply stating what pushed her to this edge that was crumbling.

 

[mirewitch]

@ZeeZle When I said her main problem is that she's manipulative, I was just mentioning her main character flaw; I wasn't condemning her for it. I agree it is understandable given her past experiences.

Honestly, my main issue with Izumi isn't with the character herself, but with how she was introduced. She was a supportive if somewhat distant friend for the first dozen chapters, then BAM: she became a rival and started gaslighting Nanaki. Like, I get that she was hiding her true feelings, but as a reader it felt really jarring. Contrast this with a character like Sayaka in Bloom Into You, who is also a secret rival character with a sad backstory. She is shown being secretly jealous pretty early in the first volume, so when she becomes a rival later it isn't surprising. With Izumi it felt like the author ran out of reasons to keep the leads apart after volume 2, so they changed Izumi's character to be Kanade's rival.

That said, the last few chapters did an excellent job of making Izumi sympathetic. At this point she is likely my favorite character in this manga. I just think she could have been introduced better.

 

[Harambe]

@mirewitch Actually, I'd argue the fact that she remains as a distant friend for the first dozen chapters is an important part of her Character. To start, while Sayaka from Bloom into You and Izuku serve the same lore story wise (I.e Love Rivals), they're a different character in a vacuum.

My memory is a bit vague with Bloom into You, so you might have to excuse me if I get some parts wrong, but While Sayaka believes she still has a chance at the start, Izuku already knows that she doesn't has a chance and instead only wants to stay by Nanaki's side. The reason why she only acted as a distant yet faithful friend at the beginning is because that's the kind of relationship She wants to keep. The fact that she's only being shown as a rival when Nanaki and Kurosawa started getting along maybe in part because she started feeling insecure about her position as someone that stays by Nanaki's Side. I maybe digging too deep into this, but in my opinion this isn't just a case of the author running out of ideas.

Also, personally I just prefer having the plot being slowly thrown at me one by one rather than overshadowing everything like Bloom Into You.

 

[mirewitch]

@Harambe I think the parallels between Sayaka and Izumi are deeper than them both being rivals. They both are close friends of one of the leads, want to be more, but feel they can't because their traumatic experience with a girl in middle school taught them that staying friends is safer. That said, I don't want to get hung up on comparing Izumi to another manga, so I'll address your point directly:

I am fine with Izumi initially hiding her love and trying to be friends, then becoming a rival after she realizes Kanade may take Nanaki from her. My issue is that her choices in early chapters don't support the idea of her being secretly in love. For example, Izumi's reaction to Miki and Nanaki having a huge fight in chapters 3 and 4 was not to support Nanaki, but to take a neutral view that both Nanaki and Miki said mean things and had to apologize. And when Nanaki refuses, Izumi seemingly chooses to hang out with Miki instead of Nanaki. I'm not sure how long that goes on before she abandons Miki, but its over a month since all of summer vacation is during this time. And when Izumi and Nanaki finally reunite in chapter 12, they talk like its been a long time since they have hung out, so I don't think its just that Nanaki/Izumi hung out offscreen. The later chapters say Izumi was secretly in love with Nanaki during that time, so why would she be cool with ditching her? That's why I am skeptical that the author had Izumi planned as a rival from the beginning; her actions at the beginning just don't make much sense if she secretly is crushing on Nanaki.

It doesn't ruin the story or anything, but I do think it weakens an otherwise interesting character.

 

[Harambe]

@mirewitch Hmm, now that you mention it, Izumi did stay on Miki side early on. I'd argue she was still clinging unto hope that she could still mend Nanaki and Miki relationship at the time, but then that implies Izumi values her previous relationship (Being with both Nanaki and Miki group at the same time) more than just staying close by Nanaki. It may be the case, but it's doubtful indeed.

But I don't think it weakens her character that much, In fact I prefer having her introduced as a love rival later on instead of early on, as to keep the spotlight on Kurokawa and Nanaki. See, part of my gripes with Bloom into you is that they introduced so much early on that (in my opinion) it ended up taking the spotlight from the Main relationship. Could be just me though. Either way is fine I guess, and I don't want to keep comparing this to Bloom into You.

 

[mirewitch]

@Harambe I don't think that Izumi's character inconsistency is a massive problem. I really like the current version of Izumi, and am willing to look past some weirdness in her early story. But I think it is one of several things suggesting the author didn't originally plan for the manga to be quite so long, and isn't handling the shift from short story to long story cleanly. Another example would be Nanaki/Kanade's relationship. It moved at a pretty reasonable pace in the early chapters, with Nanaki going from hating Kanade to being her best friend. Then the manga grinds to a halt, with both Kanade and Nanaki being incapable of understanding basic feelings of love. Some amount of this is fine; lots of people have trouble recognizing their first gay crush as something other than friendship. But I think it stopped being plausible that neither understood their feelings around chapter 9 during the rain scene. Instead the author dragged it out. It seemed like we were finally going to have progress in chapter 18, but then Izumi confessed and derailed that idea.

This is a big part of what I find frustrating about Izumi; she's a great character, but sometimes it feels like the author is just using her to distract from the main couple, who aren't making any progress. MCs have a big romantic scene and the audience wants progress? Better get Izumi to start gaslighting Nanaki to undermine her ability to understand her feelings. Nanaki pushes through the gaslighting and figures it out anyway? Better have Izumi confess her feelings. At this point the notion of Kanade and Nanaki still not understanding that they love each other is absurd, but it looks like Izumi's going to be the distraction yet again. This time it will probably be her relationship with Iroha that derails the MCs. And I can't even complain very much, since I'm in favor of Izumi and Iroha going out. But its frustrating that Izumi (and Iroha's) main purpose in the story seems to be derailing Kanade and Nanaki.

 

[Harambe]

@mirewitch
Yknow, you don't need to @ me if you're gonna comment about the Manga instead of commenting about what I said.

 

[mirewitch]

@Harambe I mean, you're the one who @ 'd me a month after I made my comment to debate whether Izumi's character was consistent. I @ 'd you this time because I was elaborating on why I was complaining about Izumi's character inconsistency in the first place, and why I think its one component of a larger problem with the manga. I was also agreeing with you that "I don't think it weakens her character that much." I don't see Izumi's character changing as a massive problem by itself, but instead as one part of a bigger problem with planning. If you don't feel like talking about that aspect of things that's fine, but I don't think it was irrelevant to the conversation we were having. I'll stop commenting though, since this topic doesn't seem to appeal to you.

 

[Harambe]

@mirewitch I didn't even realize it's a month old until you mention it!

To start, you'd be preaching to the choir if you're trying to convince me this series have a bad planning. While at first I disagree, after you mentioned the fact that Izumi decided to stay with Miki instead of Nanaki, I realize that Izumi position might actually be caused by bad planning instead of it being intentional. By the end there, I'm no longer trying to argue with you, I'm just stating my Opinion that I much prefer having the love rival be in the way at the beginning as to not take away the spotlight from the main relationship. I know that you're trying to elaborate on what you've just said, but because I'm no longer trying argue with you, your elaboration ended up coming off as a rant for the series as a whole instead of having something related to me.

I know you won't reply to this. But Cheers for the good talk, anyway.

 

[iwannareadpls]

OMGOMGOMG YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[anotherone]

Iro's level of useless-princessing was incredible in this chapter... And I Ioved every page of it!

 

[Nerex]

Justice for Izumi at last.

 

[Tsukinotaku]

Well of course it would happen lol

Any romance manga needs a side ship and by my knowledge and experience, the aide ships are always the best.

 

[PandaVinChan]

U got the gay. And it super effective gurl.

 

[NeilTylor]

Yesyesyesyes lessss goooooooo

 

[FeBriz]

The lack of written “badumps” in this manga hurts me. It’s alright I say them out loud as needed. I could feel Iro’s “badump” in at second to last page in my soul.

 

[ebooooz]

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOO

 

[sevenMeru]

That's what you get for hanging out with the gay club...

I saw this coming miles away when both of them started hanging out with the other two

 

[mal2012]

NICE SHIP

 

[insiderz667]

and just like that, she's gay now