Dungeon ni Deai o Motomeru no wa Machigatte Iru Darou ka Gaiden - Sword Oratoria - Ch. 115 - Time Limit

[readingsit]

its just my opinion but for spell that magnitude, they need massive generators (spirits in this case). im guessing that if only a single spirit channeling it, it may take months or a year to launch that might gave the adventurers ample time to powering up or preparing before they tackle the spirit. not only that, the city would rally all the best adventurers into a single task force. so the spirits are evenly spread out throughout the fake dungeon to weaken the adventurers' overall strength that can face them and we all see how well one familia's (loki's which is ome of the 3 greatest familia in ortario at the time) attack force barely manage to defeat 1.

if that was the case they'd only need to kill 3-5 of them, retreat, then take out the remaining later. the fact that they have 24 hours to kill ALL 6 and their making plans with that in mind indicates otherwise

the plan they are supposed to be making is preventing the immediate destruction of their city. so a plan that splits them up the most and even relies on the intelligent monsters to be strong enough to take on 1 by themselves is not the level of intelligence that finn is supposed to be at

There are other things that can defend(vine monsters, red head, etc.), but only the Spirits can cast the spells. Think of it this way, the Spirits are having a pie eating competition with the adventurers where they have to eat one pie each. However, if "A" doesn't finish eating their pie, then either "B" can take over and finish it for them once "B" has finished their pie or "B" through "F" can split what remains of "A's" pie between each other to finish it off. The adventurers, on the other hand, will be throwing all sorts of seasonings, spices, and sauces at the pies to make the Spirits stop eating while the monsters and red head will be trying to keep the worcestershire sauce, vinegar, and garlic powder from landing in the key lime pie.

I'm guessing the guy digging with Ilta on page 14 is M.O.D.O.W.N.(Mobile Organism Designed Only for Wrongfully Naming).

once again the problem with that logic is that its more important to kill individuals faster then to kill them all at once since that will, as in your example, put more pie in front of the remaining spirits giving the heroes more breathing room. so 2-3 teams hunting separate spirit's would be more effective then 6 teams on 6 spirits.

i can already predict that they are going to make these corrupted spirits 'weaker' since despite being as powerful as they were they now need to focus on singing. and despite the fact that if they are killed the timer barely moves they wont stop singing to better focus on the fight because plot armor

stretching your forces thin is asking for casualties unless plot armor bullshit kicks in to prevent it

 

[Dipuc4Life]

My take is that they are all singing the same song with the same timing at the same part. If any one of them finishes the song it's lights out. So if five of them die and one finishes the song then kablooie. The cumulative song may or may not make the final product stronger and/or faster. However, each single rendition is powerful enough to destroy Orario. Finn is trying to make sure that none of them get to finish the song. I don't think the author explained this well enough or maybe it was just the translation(?).

Also, that part at the beginning and the end seem disjointed. I know that they are integrated into the plan but without context they don't really add much to our understanding. But I guess it's better to leave a few surprises ... like some Bells and whistles(?) ... no? I regret nothing.

 

[BobBob]

What is Hermes cooking? I assume it's not Bell.

 

[sassinos]

if that was the case they'd only need to kill 3-5 of them, retreat, then take out the remaining later. the fact that they have 24 hours to kill ALL 6 and their making plans with that in mind indicates otherwise

the plan they are supposed to be making is preventing the immediate destruction of their city. so a plan that splits them up the most and even relies on the intelligent monsters to be strong enough to take on 1 by themselves is not the level of intelligence that finn is supposed to be at


once again the problem with that logic is that its more important to kill individuals faster then to kill them all at once since that will, as in your example, put more pie in front of the remaining spirits giving the heroes more breathing room. so 2-3 teams hunting separate spirit's would be more effective then 6 teams on 6 spirits.

i can already predict that they are going to make these corrupted spirits 'weaker' since despite being as powerful as they were they now need to focus on singing. and despite the fact that if they are killed the timer barely moves they wont stop singing to better focus on the fight because plot armor

stretching your forces thin is asking for casualties unless plot armor bullshit kicks in to prevent it

Don't forget, they just finished the planning stage so they have 24 hours to finish preparations, organize and inform their forces of the plan, and launch the assault. This will be an alliance of familias and not the well oiled machine of an individual one, so even though commanders are designated, things shouldn't be expected to run as smoothly. They're having to move through underground passageways which doesn't give them a straight line to each objective. It hinders movement so that only a few people can move forward at a time and a large number would have to wait until there is enough space to move forward. At this point, retreating for recuperation is not an option. If they went after the objectives one at a time, then a force of this magnitude would be redundant. Assaulting multiple targets, from multiple starting points allows a larger force to be active and as each objective is taken out by a unit, the adjustment on the spells time allows for that unit to join up with and support other units. Depending on their position, said unit could even split apart and support multiple other units.

I'm no great strategist and the only military experience I have won't occur for another 38,000 years, but this seems a solid plan to me.

Also, that part at the beginning and the end seem disjointed. I know that they are integrated into the plan but without context they don't really add much to our understanding. But I guess it's better to leave a few surprises ... like some Bells and whistles(?) ... no? I regret nothing.

This too. We don't know everything yet.

 

[adearies]

this makes no sense. there is no reason to have 6 spirits casting this big spell if all 6 need to be killed to stop it. if only 1 is needed to cast the spell then use the other 5 to defend it and act as replacements should it die

why u should make 1 spirit cast it for 12 days if u can make all 6 cast together to cut the time into 2 days? thats the logic more or less...

what enyo want is short breathing room for adventurers, and make the other 5 to defend the one casting is simply stupid... if they have time then the adventurer can just grind 1 spirit each day easily, and kill the last before it can even finish half of incantation...

and dont worry enyo still have 1 surprise later for them...

 

[adearies]

I don't remember that scene, are you sure he did that prior chapters? (definitely didn't this one)

its supposed to be the next one, he did after this meeting...

 

[DeadintheWater]

The way this story constantly escalates really bugs me. Even without magic, the first time they faced a demi-spirit it was a big deal. The magic just made it very nearly outside of their abilities to fight. The abilities of some of the strongest in the city, all of whom are being split up even if they have more people of the same level to throw at the problem. This would be fine if there was a bit more progression of power, but it is supposed to be abundantly clear that most people's progress with power is slow relative to the timeframe the story is taking place at, and Bell is a freak of nature. The author could have made them progress faster in light of their stronger convictions and the high stakes intense battles they've been facing, made it so the progress was not quite as different between Bell and others, or expanded the time frame so that they'd also have more time to grow.

I think this story, and mainline, would have been a lot better if this had been a WN first, and then the author could make the edits and polish a lot of the issues out in the LN.

 

[readingsit]

Don't forget, they just finished the planning stage so they have 24 hours to finish preparations, organize and inform their forces of the plan, and launch the assault. This will be an alliance of familias and not the well oiled machine of an individual one, so even though commanders are designated, things shouldn't be expected to run as smoothly. They're having to move through underground passageways which doesn't give them a straight line to each objective. It hinders movement so that only a few people can move forward at a time and a large number would have to wait until there is enough space to move forward. At this point, retreating for recuperation is not an option. If they went after the objectives one at a time, then a force of this magnitude would be redundant. Assaulting multiple targets, from multiple starting points allows a larger force to be active and as each objective is taken out by a unit, the adjustment on the spells time allows for that unit to join up with and support other units. Depending on their position, said unit could even split apart and support multiple other units.

I'm no great strategist and the only military experience I have won't occur for another 38,000 years, but this seems a solid plan to me.


This too. We don't know everything yet.

you misunderstand. what im saying doesnt make sense is how the spirits magic works. if there is only 1 needed to complete the spell, then the other 5 dont need to be casting, they can instead cast separate spells to prevent the adventurers from being able to enter at all, kill them once they do enter, or nullify enemy spells instead their all pretending to be opera singers for what? ambiance?

outside of maybe the spells activation the logic around the 6 spirits all casting at once when their DEATH has a minuscule effect on the spell is baffling

why u should make 1 spirit cast it for 12 days if u can make all 6 cast together to cut the time into 2 days? thats the logic more or less...

what enyo want is short breathing room for adventurers, and make the other 5 to defend the one casting is simply stupid... if they have time then the adventurer can just grind 1 spirit each day easily, and kill the last before it can even finish half of incantation...

and dont worry enyo still have 1 surprise later for them...

bruh, did you even read the chapter? they need to kill all 6 because only killing 5 would have no significant effect on the casting time. so all 6 of them casting the spell is effectively pointless

and i hope enyo's surprise makes more sense then this spell

 

[nathan67003]

New season of 24 just dropped

 

[feha]

its supposed to be the next one, he did after this meeting...

I don't think next chapter is a prior chapter?

 

[Rhin]

I don't remember that scene, are you sure he did that prior chapters? (definitely didn't this one)

He probably did it after the meeting with the ther head familias? When he said he still needed to prepare something.
Cause, tbh, it really doesnt make any sense NOT to inlcude possibly the strongest familia in all orario, when the world at large is about to be overrun with monsters.

 

[sassinos]

you misunderstand.

The misunderstanding seems to be mutual here so how about we just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I feel like we're getting to the point where rather than having a discussion about the story, we'll soon be arguing over the color of dress.

 

[feha]

He probably did it after the meeting with the ther head familias? When he said he still needed to prepare something.
Cause, tbh, it really doesnt make any sense NOT to inlcude possibly the strongest familia in all orario, when the world at large is about to be overrun with monsters.

[OOC] I suspect the original comment in that chain made a spoiler without spoiler-tagging it (only second comment from him was spoiler tagged).

The misunderstanding seems to be mutual here so how about we just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I feel like we're getting to the point where rather than having a discussion about the story, we'll soon be arguing over the color of dress.

The dress is clearly white and gold. You can check the hex-values if you don't believe me.

 

[demonslender]

so is the freya familia just gonna be completely uninvolved in this matter? you would think that at the very least they would want the strongest adventurer in orario as support even if they don't fully trust freya. so i'm guessing that hermes is trying to get bell involved in this fight to further his goal of making him a hero.

 

[Amarillo]

It's quite funny that the whole city could be destroyed, with everyone inside it, in a matter of a day, yet plenty of strong fighters and magicians are left ignorant, and out of the operation, simply because Loki familia wants to limit the number of people who know anything about it. Of course the operation is not going to fail (the lore of the series couldn't tolerate it), but for discussion's sake, let's say it failed only barely, like they took out five demi-spirits, but the last remaining demi-spirit, despite the delay caused by the destruction of the other five, managed to complete the spell. The gods back in heaven could only say: "If we had recruited one more familia, we would have won."

This isn't correct. Every level 5 or higher knows about the operation. All of the level 5 and ups are in Loki/Ganesha/Freya familias (and Tsubaki) Realistically anyone below level 4 isn't strong enough to fight demi spirits. Freya familia is aware of what is going on, they just aren't helpful.