Fight Class 3

[Uthred]

Poorly formatted walls of text are difficult for anyone to understand champ. That's why paragraph's are a thing. But its quite kind of you to graciously use the most basic level of proper formatting. I've zero interest in convincing you of anything and you rehashing your previously mentioned points isn't going to convince anyone either. So we'll have to agree to disagree. Or if you prefer a point by point brief resposne.

1) You clearly aren't familiar with the term gatekeeping.
2) What logic? Why go on to give your personal definition of informed? Did you perhaps mean vocabulary?
3) We can imagine whatever you want. I stated my opinion based on the text in question. You disagree, that's cool. But your two paragraphs of "lets imagine" isn't changing my mind. The trigger was unconvincing.

Spoiler

4) Yes, sudden. As I said there was growing evidence of change but the actual change was sudden thats why you have the radical change in his behaviour. You are aware what sudden means right?
5) A passing reference to her feeling like his mother once is arguably not "clearly stated." Her behaviour in 71 was also in line with her previous behaviour. It was, again, unconvincing as a trigger.
6) It's amusing how you keep accusing me of being ignorant while constantly failing to understand basic English. Firstly, you're confusing a characters backstory for depth. Depth of character has more to do with how a character is realised not their sad backstory. Further I was specifically talking about her wild phase, the clue was that I specifically mentioned it. She was a mindless berserker at that point, her entire "character" consisted of "revenge". There was no nuance to her in that period. Similarly "Wild Jitae" is equally one-dimensional. You keep on talking about people not understanding the manga or the characters as if there's some great depth to the story or characters, at its best its a shallow revenge story, nobody is confused about anything thats happening here. Well I mean you seem to be confused, but not about the comic at least. I mean "You haven't read it!" is a ludicrous response. Unless I guessed really well my previous post alone would be evidence I had. You seem very threatened by people disagreeing with you.

6.5) Again you misunderstand basic English. I was clearly and explicitly referring to what the story had currently become, not the text in its entirety.

I suppose, in conclusion, you completely misread and misunderstood my post and wrote your little article railing against points I never made. Which means you're either being deliberately obtuse or didn't grasp simple points made in a simple manner (or perhaps I made them poorly, perish the thought). Finally "You come across as weak"? Discussing ones opinion of a middle of the road webcomic? What a mental thing to say. Either way, I'll agree to disagree and stick you on ignore so save yourself the hassle of rehashing your points yet again.

Oh god, will people think I'm "weak" now? How will I live with the shame? Well if I was the main character in this I guess I'd have a sudden shift to sociopathy.

Mod Note: Please use spoiler tags when talking about chapter-specific or future events.

 

[Starstorm1]

Okay uthred.
True, we have to agree to disagree.

But the only reason I even replied to you in the first place was because you were rude.

The entire reason for you bitching at me was because I was gatekeeping and shutting others opinions down...you were doing the same thing you accused me off. You were trying to shut me down. Very simple to understand really.

I wasn’t creating my own definition of informed, I was simply stating how it relates to text. You’re just trying to hide away from the fact that your logic was off when you tried to tell me what is and isn’t a retort.

Jitaes change can’t be sudden if he’s been snowballing the entire time. You can’t suddenly cross the finish line of a race you’ve been running for a while, you’re implying it’s a surprise for this to happen, when it’s been happening from the start.

We’re not imagining anything, I’m telling you what jitae has gone through, you’re ignorant because you won’t acknowledge the difficulty of his situation and his mental health.

The fact that you think that Maria’s behaviour towards jitae in 71 was in line with her previous behaviour towards him is honestly something I can’t help you with. We all come to our own conclusions so if you think that her cruelly humiliating him is in line with the mentoring she’s been giving him then that’s your problem.

You accuse me of not being able to understand English but the fact that you view Maria and jitae as one dimensional means that you don’t understand why they are the way they are. Either your deliberately ignoring the events that made them wild or you don’t understand. Either way, it’s not up to me what you believe.

A “passing reference”? No. It’s stated, as in clearly written in the manhwa. It’s clearly stated how jitae feels towards Maria. If you believe it’s not clear then once again, your choice.

Youre right. A backstory doesn’t automatically create depth, it’s about how the character is realised. I just happened to think that Maria and jitae have been impressively realised.

It’s shallow? That’s fine. Pls find your way out of the comment section and drop the manhwa that centres around such pathetically one dimensional characters.
You’re smart right? You obviously have better things to do than to read this. You could’ve just stopped and gone somewhere else. It just seems that you’re wasting your time or that you feel the need for everyone to know that you won’t be reading it anymore. It’s like going to a store just to shout, in the middle of the store where everyone can see you, that you won’t be going anymore.

You were referring to what the story had become and not referring to it as a whole? I’m sorry, but you didn’t you accuse the story of lacking depth? You literally just said “it’s a shallow revenge story”.

You say I misunderstand English and that I am threatened with those who disagree with me but honestly it seems like you’re reflecting. You got strangely personal, insulting my writing abilities, my intelligence and my ability to understand English....all because I made a point about how people should read before they complain about things that are answered in the manhwa. You seem very bothered about a story that it so beneath you. And you seem very angry about a comment that wasn’t even targeted at you directly.

I have no problem with those who disagree with me, I welcome it. Whats so great about a comment section is the fact that we can have opposing views, but you took it too far when you were rude to someone specifically. When I made my first point about complaints, at least it wasn’t targeted at someone. I wasn’t calling someone dumb or insulting them or trying to tell them that they’re stupid. I was explaining why the complaints were being made weren’t very informed and that those who continuously make these complaints need to read again.

Also and I mean this with the utmost respect, but I’d doubt you’d need to shift that much in order to reach sociopathy.

But that joke aside, learn some manners. This isn’t a fight, we’re not in a ring or octagon, there is no place for such disrespect here. You look weak because the first sentence in your argument was just a weak jab that was completely unnecessary. If you have point to make, make it. Don’t have an attitude for no reason. Exploring an idea in general (what I did) is fine. Talking to someone directly by insulting them (what you did) isn’t acceptable.

I’m guilty of being rude too in my response to you and for that I’m truly sorry. It’s not okay, so I’ll grow up and stop misbehaving if you do too.

 

[mylastchance89]

@Psychedelic_Beat I think you make a very interesting point and would totally agree with your first paragraph if it wasn't because the rest of your comment basically serves as a counterargument for the point you were trying to make.

Spoiler

I don't think there's anything wrong about people not liking the way Ji-tae's change was done because that's a matter of preference. As you said, 2hakkk could've handled things differently in a way that would've left those people satisfied. But there are also people who liked the way he handled things so, how would they feel if things were handled differently? Who gets to say which side is right or wrong?

I do think 2hakkk took a risk by portraying Ji-tae's slow fall into despair and angst the way he did. But you can't please everyone, I guess. However, the argument changes when it goes from "I didn't like the way this was handled" to "it doesn't make sense". Some readers have this sort of natural response of putting the blame on the author when the narrative goes in a way they didn't expect, or they simply don't agree with. The problem is there's a difference between not liking something (fair) and saying "it doesn't make sense" because of said dislike.

Something I've noticed is that the people who have a better grasp of Ji-tae's character and internal struggles from the very beginning are more prone to agree with the recent developments in contrast with those who only saw him as a wimpy weakling and now wonder why the "sudden change" in his attitude and demeanor.

You also make a great point about "putting yourself in his shoes". The thing is that a lot of manga readers want their MCs to be almost flawless for them to be able to self-insert as them, so when they find a protagonist with recognizable flaws and issues to overcome as a character, they don't accept it because is not the illusion of "awesomeness" they want to associate themselves with.

I really like your analysis of Ji-tae's character, his motivations, and the moral dilemmas he's had to face since the very beginning of the manhwa.

 

[EpicLazy]

@mylastchance89 I get that the thing is it was how fast the actual mentality switch came in. It felt like no warning just one chapter get his ass beat the next hes a completely different person.

 

[Psychedelic_Beat]

@mylastchance89 Thanks for the kind words and bringing up another part of the discussion!

Spoiler

It kinda seems like I contradicted myself, huh? In my head, those were two supporting arguments but perhaps I could've expressed it better. What I was trying to express after my 1st paragraph was more like the justification for having him break down. Like I mentioned before, I think it was justified but not well transitioned into. I made all those points to support position A (that he was going to break eventually) but I was hoping for a trigger B (tipping point), so that his actual breakdown C wouldn't feel weird or out of nowhere.

I remember rereading a few chaps back and it was still all fun and games. There was even that stupid "ask me what this leg is" gag when Maria got caught at the boarding house. With jokes like that and how Jitae was in general, the tone felt a lot more easygoing and lighthearted. Sure, there was the slow descent caused by Maria training him to fight, but there wasn't enough to show me he would descend ALL the way, let alone do it so quickly.

To many people including myself, the jump from position A to breakdown C was odd. Imagine if a volcano was going to explode this year. Let's say I was aware of it but I knew that there were signs before it would actually go off, so I wasn't too worried. One day I go out real quick for some cigs and all of a sudden I return to a burning wasteland. Obviously, I could make the conclusion the volcano exploded without actually seeing it, but I would have expected to at least see or feel the signs leading up to it. That's how I feel about the story right now. I can see A -> C happening, sure, but without that tipping point that shows me that it is actually about to explode (thus A->B->C) the sequence of events would leave me confused. And for some people, they wouldn't even be aware of A but could still understand the situation if they only saw B -> C. In the end, the change in Jitae makes me feel like I missed a few chapters in between, just as @EpicLazy mentions.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts and feelings about it. 2hakkk has his own way of telling a story which is what makes me like it so much, but this one is a case where I don't agree with the execution.

 

[shinratensei16]

And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. We've finally caught up to the manhwa's official release.

Mind you that the series is published in a biweekly magazine (twice a month) so take that in mind for future reference when it comes to a "release schedule".

Also, all of you are cordially invited to join the Fight Class 3 subreddit. We'd really appreciate if people could join and contribute with posts and comments to help the FC3 community grow.

 

[Plumpy]

this new chapter was so good i read another manga after and i was like "this manga sucks"

 

[GuiltyShinobi]

New chapter was fucking brutal

 

[Hong]

Holy shit this new chapter was savage af. All the mental issues each of them were going through were rough too. This chapter literally packed a punch mentally, especially seeing that brutal fight. What a turn from the beginning of this story.

 

[Psychedelic_Beat]

GODDAMN, SAVAGE AF

 

[OneDream]

@shinratensei16 :

Mind you that the series is published in a beweekly magazines

So, twice a week, or every 2 weeks ?
(Probably "every 2 weeks", but asking just to be sure...)

[Asking for you to precise since English is one of the languages where biweekly has a double meaning...]

 

[AlGarone]

What the fuck happened o my sweet boi? Did he take drugs or some shit? His personality’s a 180. Did I miss a few chapters?

 

[mylastchance89]

@AlGarone No... you haven't missed anything.

Spoiler

We've known since the very beginning of the story tat Jitae has some serious trauma in regards to his father and the idea of him being useless. Just hours after his mother died, his beloved sister was taken away from him by the person who had abandoned them and he was unable to do anything about it. His father not only scarred him physically but both mentally and emotionally.

Despite his efforts to stay true to his beliefs, this idea of him being "useless" is only reinforced with each new failure in his journey, and the conflict between what he believes is "right" and what he must do in order to find his sister eats him up inside.

This dichotomy reaches its boiling point during the fight against Young-joon when he even considers the thought of stabbing his opponent in order to win the fight. However, he chose to stick to his beliefs one last time. Sadly, despite turning the tides of the fight, he wasn't able to finish off his opponent due to his lack of "killer instinct", which also led up to him getting his nose broken and Maria lashing out at him for fighting with a half-assed approach.

The hospital scene of him breaking down is nothing else but him accepting he must go through the path he's desperately trying to avoid, the path of violence. He's been convinced than his real self is useless, worthless, and has no use in order to become strong. Being weak is no longer an option.

So what does he do? He copes. His current "personality" is a coping mechanism that consist of him trying to embody the characteristics of the people he’s most afraid of just like when he can perform a move after just seeing it. Strong individuals ike his father and Maria. People who carry themselves in a way that goes against his beliefs and morals, but that are strong to the point they can just do as they please without anyone being able to stand in their way.

I think I might have extended a bit too much but, I think in order to understand Jitae's character is necessary to look past his "happy-go-lucky" demeanor from the earlier chapters and understand he's a kid dealing with some heavy trauma and deep emotional issues caused by his father and the loss of his sister.

 

[Psychedelic_Beat]

Help me pls

Spoiler

Wait so does Maria know that's Young Woong (YW)? Was she trying to get him to come back to his sense because she saw that he had the same surgery as the person from her flashback? Or did she mistake that guy for the person in the flashback? The differences are too large and Jitae already pointed out that it was YW. I'm just confused at the amount of sympathy she gave if she did found out it was YW and the fact that she would mention "Ruy" as part of her introduction. Wouldn't that be more indicative of being the person from the flashback since he might be connected to her family's past?

Ya boi confused.

 

[Mother_Mushroom]

how do i delete comments lmao

 

[AnimationDude]

@mylastchance89
I'm so glad there are people who can still read between the lines of this manga

 

[mylastchance89]

Spoiler

Hahaha, thanks @AnimationDude.

I think some might overlook certain things present in this story due to the lighthearted moments and comedic interactions, which might give the vibe this is just another high school manga centered around fighting. However, the dark and serious themes have always been present since the very first chapter. Yeah, there were times when the author pushed them a bit to the side, but he never stopped building them up. Now he's decided to bring them to the forefront of the story.

Wait so does Maria know that's Young Woong (YW)? Was she trying to get him to come back to his sense because she saw that he had the same surgery as the person from her flashback? Or did she mistake that guy for the person in the flashback?

@Psychedelic_Beat

She realized the person they were fighting against was Young Woong

Spoiler

(that's why she didn't hesitate to kill him), but seeing the scar in his head triggered the memories from her encounter with the fighter in her flashback. Due to her reaction, its very likely she already knew that person or even he might be a relative of hers. It looked to me like she was in shock. Also, the way she was talking to Young Woong makes me think she was trying to get to know more about the procedure. Maybe the person from her flashback acted completely different than the person she knew. Is not far fetched to think Maria would want to know if those people with the scar are still aware of who they are, or if they assume a new identity.

Mod Note: Please use spoiler tags when talking about chapter-specific or future events.

 

[hannawantstoread]

@mylastchance89
Your explanation was so helpful, thanks for taking the time to explain all of that🥰😌

 

[Psychedelic_Beat]

The story gets him high on violence and then thrusts him a situation where it can't be used to solve the problem (at least immediately). Fuckin ouch.

 

[ShockSword]

Spoiler

The reasons why Ji-Tae fucking lost it:
-Trauma of losing his little sister
-Determination to find his little sister + having to use violence to achieve that, which he's always hated
-Maria being a shitty mentor figure in terms of emotional support (both by making him do morally questionable things while also making him the recipient of her own anger and trauma).
-Combination of the above two leading to Ji-Tae hating himself more and more

Basically, Ji-Tae being mentally unhinged is much closer to a coping mechanism rather than him "being edgy." I feel like this is a similar situation to Zenitsu in Kimetsu no Yaiba. I loved Zenitsu because if I imagine myself in that scenario I would also probably be scared out of my mind. Zenitsu complains and whines all the time but his complaining and whining is pretty much entirely justified by how terrifying the world he's living in is. Ji-Tae as well; wouldn't you want to act like a piece of shit to everyone if you're forced to unironically use violence as the answer despite you hating violence, both on the dealing and the receiving end of it, because it's literally the only way to progress forward? Which you're ironically feeding into the feedback loop of violence -> hating yourself -> acting violent to cope -> leading you to hate yourself even more? That's some top-notch character writing.

Also, it's easier to comprehend all of this when you read the Korean raw with thousands of comments in every chapter explaining all of this.

Mod Note: Please use spoiler tags when talking about chapter-specific or future events.