Fixing the drama problem

Fixing the drama problem

  • Great idea. Do it!

    Votes: 16 10.7%
  • Needs some polish, but might be a direction worth investigating.

    Votes: 40 26.8%
  • No, man, that's no good.

    Votes: 37 24.8%
  • WTF? This is legitimately the dumbest thing I've heard since kindergarten.

    Votes: 56 37.6%

  • Total voters
    149
  • Poll closed .
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
5,107
Alright I've finally caught up to everything. Here's my two cents, @SGR.

If we were to compare this system to the real world, MD staffs would be the CEO and the scanlation groups would be the company's workers - group leaders are their managers - and readers would obviously be customers. Since there are Karens in the wild who'd "like to see the manager" for a petty dollar, I'd say that my comparison is pretty fair.

I like the part where only the GLs can punish readers, that is fair. A worker have no authority to tell a customer to leave the shop no matter how rude, that right is reserved to the manager and only them.

However, @Teasday is correct - a CEO shouldn't be aware of every single breath that their managers take and, aike in the real world, there are managers who are corrupt and abuse their power. They may shove off a customer because... idk they cut the line or something, an offense but surely not enough to warrant a ban from the shop. Luckily, in the real world, customers can complain to the customer service and workers can report their bad managers to the general manager. Therefore, I would like to propose a MangaDex equivalent of a combination of those two - the "Complain Complier".

If this system were to be implemented, the CC is responsible to watch over all things related to GL authority. Reports of power abuse will be reviewed by CC. They will be positioned directly under "MD staffs" such that a delicate balance between a power structure and autotharian rule will be reached over time as things adapt. As a CC, they are able to independently decide wether a GL really have indeed abused their power or a salty reader gave a false report out of spite; they are also given the right to communicate and directly intervene into the drama to solve the issue by themself before further actions are taken. What are the further actions? As a CC who is below MD staffs, they have no real power: a CC's job is to make the MD staffs' job much easier when it comes to GL authority and that is all. They will report everything that had happen, from the false reports to the direct interventions, the staffs will take it from there. They can suggest certain actions to the staffs as well if they really think it's necessary.

That said I do believe that this Idea has potential, although it still requires refining and polishing.


But what does this have to do with the recent drama and the rule loophole?
 
Group Leader
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
301
Hope you realize before chapters being pulled holo was informed.
Secondly if such rules as control over the chapters we translate were to be removed, at which point would mangadex be different from kissmanga from the point of view of a scanlator, at that point, most websites would stop uploading here.
Third, if you're a reader, not a scanlator, why are you trying to dictate scanlator driven rules? Seems extremely dumb but most people seem to agree.
And yes, we do have control over our chapters here. Hence why they were removed.
Finally, if rules related to scanlators were to be changed in that direction, you can be 100% sure a LOT of groups would just straight up leave mangadex. Those were the reason most groups came here to begin with.
 
Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
301
@TheOneWhoSighs And you are always the predictable counter to pointing out shitty behavior. Imagine that, people with no ethics whatsoever would defend zero-fucks-given scanlation tactics. The fastest and highest quality groups I ever worked with were always the ones working for free. Anyone actually good enough to be charging for their services would get hired by an actual publisher. $5-15 isn't worth the time of any native-English speaker, especially when it would have to include being on-call for clarifications during editing/QC.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
177
@Aereus

And you are always the predictable counter to pointing out shitty behavior. Imagine that, people with no ethics whatsoever would defend zero-fucks-given scanlation tactics.

Lol. "You disagree with me, therefore you have no ethics".

$5-15 isn't worth the time of any native-English speaker, especially when it would have to include being on-call for clarifications during editing/QC.

Therefore don't give them anything. Because that's even more worth their time.

Again, I agree it's not worth their time. But at least it's something. Instead of just taking their work for granted.
 
Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
301
@TheOneWhoSighs Most of the most prolific translators never asked for a dime. Groups like RedHawk produced several thousand chapters and their main translators each did well in excess of 500 chapters. I've done somewhere in the range of 250 chapters and never expected to be paid for my hobby either. The worst cancers in scanlation today can be traced to getting money involved. At that point it's not about the author or their work or anyone else who works for the publisher, it's about people slitting each others throats lining their own pockets in developing economies.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
177
@Aereus

The worst cancers in scanlation today can be traced to getting money involved. At that point it's not about the author or their work or anyone else who works for the publisher, it's about people slitting each others throats lining their own pockets in developing economies.

Unsurprising, money makes the world go round. The cancer of society can be traced to getting money involved.

However, blanket generalizations like this aren't useful and are nothing more than depressing nihilism at best. It doesn't address the morals of accepting vs not accepting payment for an illegal activity.

Congratulations, you're Robin Hood. You're still a thief. Your lack of taking money for your thievery doesn't make you a better person. And pointing out that money does, at times, corrupt people doesn't really help your argument at all.

I appreciate the work you guys do for free. But I'm not going to shit on someone just because a college student helping out with translations wants a bit of side money. Nor would I blame you if you ever decided you were for hire.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
92
Rando lurker here - the issue is that some user submitted comments are being seen as toxic? Isn't there an ignore function that hides comments by a given user? I don't really get how some randos comments cause scanlators to get angry to the point of leaving the site. Idiots are everywhere - don't you get the same comments on your own sites? I'm confuzzled. 🤗😘
 
Double-page supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
706
Based on the forum posts you'd think that, but no. the Drama started from Scan Groups Credit Pages and another group being asked to not discuss it in the comments of the Chapter based on the rules, a rule later changed.
 
Miku best girl
Admin
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
1,441
The interpretation of the rule changed, so it became a non-issue. But hey, groups still decide to leave...
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
92
@Granitefish thanks for the summary, so it came from the complaint of not being allowed to use the site infrastructure by groups to diss eachother? Well, forum drama will be forum drama I guess 🙄 - I'm getting too old for this stuff - hey was there ever a Mangadex user age poll? Ah don't mind me - continue the on topic discussion. 🤐
 
Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
846
@Aereus:
Most of the most prolific translators never asked for a dime. Groups like RedHawk produced several thousand chapters and their main translators each did well in excess of 500 chapters. I've done somewhere in the range of 250 chapters and never expected to be paid for my hobby either.

RedHawk..
Mangaproject...
Toriyama's World...
SnoopyCool...

Where are they now?

I'm sure there are still lots of quality translator like you, that translates because they're happy to do it
But, can you still be happy to face the whining for fast release from readers?
Can you still be happy knowing that as soon as you release a chapter, it got monetized by hundreds of online reader site?
 
Group Leader
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
261
I don’t think it’s safe to give power to scanlators over comments lol

It’s really easy to abuse such powers. What classifies as toxic will be different for different scanlators. I honestly don’t think you can trust all the group leaders with censorship powers. Some scanlators will probably ban people who complain about slow releases or those who criticise their work or even people who point out mistakes etc. It would just be like having a huge and disconnected mod team in a way.

Why would scanlators need power to ban people from reading their work when if someone’s stepping over the civility line? Couldn’t scanlators just report them?
Besides, banned readers could just go read somewhere else. There is no real sanction here.

Giving group leaders power to censor commenters just seems kind of pointless and risky- it would probably just cause more drama because it essentially hands out power to too many people with different views on what classifies as a proper offence.

MD staff would possible have to deal with people unhappy with being banned from commenting/ viewing a group’s work, and that would be more possible drama between MD and a group, depending which side they pick.

Even if some people are mean but don’t step over the line of civility, there’ll always be people who appreciate you and your work, even if they never comment.

So if you appreciate a group’s releases, say a thank you! Positivity spreads and if saying “thank you” is done commonly enough, it becomes a custom and more people join in!

If someone complains about your release speed, whatever, y’know? Sure, it might be annoying that they don’t understand how much effort it takes for each chapter, or that you’re busy, but they just don’t understand and that’s it. No big deal~

If you want to scanlate, do it because you enjoy the project that you’re working on, and you want to share the joy of it with other people. Ignore the people who complain unjustly because they’re not the people you’re scanlating for!


I kind of went off topic a bit lul
 
Group Leader
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
223
...so who left and what manga did we lose because i never read comments

idc if you dm me or whatever, i just wanna know if it's something i care about lul
 

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