[Forum] Reaction spam

[T10_]

@Remocracy just had a situation where his magical internet points vanished and went to -214 at the time of this post. Regardless if this is abuse (I argue it's not), we should find a solution to this so further magical internet point loss doesn't happen

Here are a few solutions that could solve this problem:

• limit accounts to only be able to react x times a day (credits to @Zephyrus)
• limit the reactions one user account can add to another user, e.g. x reactions in x time (credits to me)
• shadow yeet the magical internet points added or deducted by the reactions (and maybe even the reactions itself) if the user is detected to be spamming them (also important for upvote bots) (credits to me)

What should be done about post upvote and downvote spam could be solved with this too, but I think it should be handled differently

Reply with other solutions if you have one.

Spoiler: Solution shortcuts

Collection of your solutions:

• user weight for reactions (#2)
• to lower a score => lower your score at the same time (#4)
• Replace the counter with a face whose emotion changes depending on the proportion of negative to positive points one has. (#7)
• reaction score should not be public [...], removing the points altogether (#14)
• remove them, and maybe only show the score of specific comments. (#15)
• you can only give “magical internet points” after you yourself has been given the points (#20)
• "one account should be able to influence the reaction score of another account by at most one point" (#26)
• "wipe at the end of the month with top 10 and last 10 people shown. [...] MD could also integrate trophies in this system so said people will be awarded something." (#29)
• "'reaction score' could just be renamed to 'monthly reaction score'" (#32)
• "The points are a mistake. The scores shouldn't exist, all the reactions should give 0 points." (#34)
• "You need at least a few generic [rules]" (#45)
• "either completely remove the reaction/point system, or to remove all negative reactions" (#47)
• "reactions being kept on the posts themselves and not applied to the user" (#49)

 

[rdn]

Personally I resonate more with the posts about not putting too much weight into internet points and having that a purely optical thing on the side which is perfectly fine to ignore.

I have removed the score from below the posters avatar because that's not where it belongs imo and it was only put there to make this area look less empty. By removing it we hopefully emphasize that the score is not a significant judge of character or trustworthiness.

The reactions and which amount they add/substract will be reworked once we reach a consensus within staff, the opinions from this thread will also have their influence. Generally I want to keep reactions around because they are mostly fun and outside of a few special cases work exactly as they should.

When it comes to "abusing" the system by dumb-rating a users every post, that is not the intended use of judging individual posts every now and then, but seems to be more about demonstrating a strong dislike of an individual user, which may in the future lead to a (temp) revoking of react rights if one can't be trusted to use it for its intended purpose.

What I will not do is completely rework the reaction system for some temporary or weighted calculation, it works fine the way it is and will be tweaked so it can work out of the box without me having to maintain a custom implementation every version upgrade.

Finally, don't take things too seriously, internet points on a mango website mean nothing and should be inconsequential to your state of mind.

 

[Remocracy]

Personally I resonate more with the posts about not putting too much weight into internet points and having that a purely optical thing on the side which is perfectly fine to ignore.

I have removed the score from below the posters avatar because that's not where it belongs imo and it was only put there to make this area look less empty. By removing it we hopefully emphasize that the score is not a significant judge of character or trustworthiness.

The reactions and which amount they add/substract will be reworked once we reach a consensus within staff, the opinions from this thread will also have their influence. Generally I want to keep reactions around because they are mostly fun and outside of a few special cases work exactly as they should.

When it comes to "abusing" the system by dumb-rating a users every post, that is not the intended use of judging individual posts every now and then, but seems to be more about demonstrating a strong dislike of an individual user, which may in the future lead to a (temp) revoking of react rights if one can't be trusted to use it for its intended purpose.

What I will not do is completely rework the reaction system for some temporary or weighted calculation, it works fine the way it is and will be tweaked so it can work out of the box without me having to maintain a custom implementation every version upgrade.

Finally, don't take things too seriously, internet points on a mango website mean nothing and should be inconsequential to your state of mind.

Said user is still mass-dumbing me.

 

[rdn]

Said user is still mass-dumbing me.

Yes and I see you reacting in kind.

We will rework the reaction system in a bit.

 

[OisE]

Maybe we can just show the number of reactions not the score.

 

[viliml]

@Remocracy just had a situation where his magical internet points vanished and went to -214 at the time of this post. Regardless if this is abuse (I argue it's not), we should find a solution to this so further magical internet point loss doesn't happen

Here are a few solutions that could solve this problem:

• limit accounts to only be able to react x times a day (credits to @Zephyrus)
• limit the reactions one user account can add to another user, e.g. x reactions in x time (credits to me)
• shadow yeet the magical internet points added or deducted by the reactions (and maybe even the reactions itself) if the user is detected to be spamming them (also important for upvote bots) (credits to me)

What should be done about post upvote and downvote spam could be solved with this too, but I think it should be handled differently

Reply with other solutions if you have one.

Spoiler: Solution shortcuts

Collection of your solutions:

• user weight for reactions (#2)
• to lower a score => lower your score at the same time (#4)
• Replace the counter with a face whose emotion changes depending on the proportion of negative to positive points one has. (#7)
• reaction score should not be public [...], removing the points altogether (#14)
• remove them, and maybe only show the score of specific comments. (#15)
• you can only give “magical internet points” after you yourself has been given the points (#20)

This is so weird. Every forum has reaction score but I've never heard of problems like this.
Okay I just looked at the rules and wow they're short. You need at least a few generic items like "don't abuse the forum system" and "don't make the staff's job harder".
Then when someone does something like this you give them an infraction (you have an infraction system, right? ...right...?) and, say in this case, erase all their previous reactions.

 

[Remocracy]

Yes and I see you reacting in kind.

We will rework the reaction system in a bit.

Unlike him I'm not searching his profile (which I can't anyway, since he locked his profile). Instead I only reacted to his posts in the thread I made yesterday night about his reactions. I have not reacted to his comments since last night.

 

[Nolonar]

While I do think that these magical internet points are meaningless, it could be argued that a single user receiving negative reactions en masse is experiencing cyber-bullying. This is something that I believe is worth addressing, regardless of what anyone thinks these points are worth (or not).

So my suggestion is to either completely remove the reaction/point system, or to remove all negative reactions, only allowing "like" and similar reactions.

 

[Zephyrus]

This is so weird. Every forum has reaction score but I've never heard of problems like this.
Okay I just looked at the rules and wow they're short. You need at least a few generic items like "don't abuse the forum system" and "don't make the staff's job harder".
Then when someone does something like this you give them an infraction (you have an infraction system, right? ...right...?) and, say in this case, erase all their previous reactions.

We do have an infraction system, yes.

And our general philosophy is that we don't like to overwhelm ourselves or users with more rules than is absolutely necessary. Even if we had say, 50 forum rules, there's always someone out there willing to engage in rules lawyering to get away with breaking both the letter and spirit of a rule.

We prefer to keep our options open.

 

[Shirobane]

I don’t know if it is possible with this forum software, but what about reactions being kept on the posts themselves and not applied to the user. You can see that a post has been marked down but only moderators can see an aggregate of the post scores for a user.

 

[TheLaCasa]

MY HECKIN LEREDDIT KARMA DOOD!!!!!!!!111!!!

 

[Ivegotnolife]

MY HECKIN LEREDDIT KARMA DOOD!!!!!!!!111!!!

 

[T10_]

I added shortcuts to #1 since solutions can get lost in the discussion.

I've updated the shortcuts with the posts after #20. Feel free to comment here if you still have an idea, since the system still has to be reworked.

 

[T10_]

I would categorise going through someone's entire post history to react to them specifically as abuse

While I do think that these magical internet points are meaningless, it could be argued that a single user receiving negative reactions en masse is experiencing cyber-bullying.

This. I'd count it as harassment or cyberbullying instead of abuse.
Time to add rules against harassment :whip:

 

[Mr_Detective]

This shouldn't have become a problem, but somehow managed to. RPG Maker Forum has this probably exact same reaction score system, and I never really cared for it. Though, honestly, the users there are less likely to pull stupid stunts, and mods will interfere really quick. Didn't even know your score can go up, and even down, depending on how people react. It only takes a single douche to ruin something.

Suggestions:

1. Get rid of the score system completely. Or give users the option to hide it.
2. Get rid of the negative score reactions. This should go together with #1 as well. You either get positive point or nothing at all.
3. In order to prevent someone from deliberately targeting a specific user, make it so that when you block someone, they can't see your posts anymore. Can't spam negative reactions if they can't see your posts. I hope this is how the block system works already. Someone is already spamming the "dumb" reaction in this thread. A block should solve the problem.

 

[Remocracy]

I hope this is how the block system works already.

Nope it seems to be that it only hides their comments from the person who blocks them, but not vice versa. So if I blocked you I wouldn't see your comments, but you could see mine.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

Nope it seems to be that it only hides their comments from the person who blocks them, but not vice versa. So if I blocked you I wouldn't see your comments, but you could see mine.

this is definitely how it's intended to work. making someone unable to see your comments because you blocked them would cause a lot of problems.

the most that i think could be argued for changing would be that a blocked person couldn't react to your posts. alternatively, their reactions just wouldn't affect reaction score.

 

[Remocracy]

this is definitely how it's intended to work. making someone unable to see your comments because you blocked them would cause a lot of problems.

the most that i think could be argued for changing would be that a blocked person couldn't react to your posts. alternatively, their reactions just wouldn't affect reaction score.

None of that is true either unfortunately.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

None of that is true either unfortunately.

could you find where staff has said that blocking someone is supposed to hide your own comments from them? i seem to recall them saying that it only goes one way.

 

[Mr_Detective]

Nope it seems to be that it only hides their comments from the person who blocks them, but not vice versa. So if I blocked you I wouldn't see your comments, but you could see mine.

this is definitely how it's intended to work. making someone unable to see your comments because you blocked them would cause a lot of problems.

the most that i think could be argued for changing would be that a blocked person couldn't react to your posts. alternatively, their reactions just wouldn't affect reaction score.

Now that's another the problem. If I block someone, that means I do not have any contact with them in any way. They should not be able to still see my posts and make backhanded comments about me. This is something I wish the staff would reconsider.

At the very least, they shouldn't be able to react to my posts at all.

 

[T10_]

They should not be able to still see my posts and make backhanded comments about me.
At the very least, they shouldn't be able to react to my posts at all.

There should be a clear distinction between ignoring someone that you find annoying (basically a shadow block) and blocking someone so they can't see your posts like on Twitter
tldr; add a block button instead of changing the ignore system