Fushi no Kami: Rebuilding Civilization Starts with a Village - Vol. 6 Ch. 23 - The Warmth of Walking Together

[bluenoirblues]

I'ts notanachronistic, the middle ages ended in the 15th century, potatoes were actually discovered and brought to Europe before the middle ages ended. Also you're the one assuming all these mangas with fantasy universes.... live in the middle ages? They just look medieval, but nowhere it states that they live in the middle ages.



That's a pretty stupid comparison. Infant mortality and lack of technology happened even 2 centuries ago, in the 1800s. Why are you assuming they didn't have the means of traveling through the oceans? Btw, going to America doesn't require circumnavigation. The literal word means "navigating the whole circunference".

But worse of all, why are you assuming that in a fantasy manga people need to get potatoes from other continents instead of... you know, being an actual crop?

All of your points are stupid when you realize this is NOT a historical manga.

Just because potatoes/tomatoes were introduced to Europe a long time ago doesn't mean that they were always there, which is what I mean by anachronistic; if all you're trying to point out is "so what? it's fiction, just suspend your disbelief" then there's no real argument to be had

I sincerely doubt that there's going to be any story explanation for why potatoes/tomatoes are there, which is just a pet-peeve of mine, but the premise of the story revolves around rebuilding civilization from medieval-like environment after the collapse of some ancient civilization, (unless you think it's not somehow) but the fact is that the introduction of potatoes/tomatoes to Europe is the result of huge advancements in seafaring, navigation and military technology AFTER the 15th Century DURING the mid-16th Century (1530's) is that specific enough for you?

that "worst of all' reason of yours is exactly what I'm talking about, so we're supposed to dismiss all historical influences in medieval/fantasy fiction just because Sam from Lord of the Rings said "Po-ta-toes?" they might as well be eating potato chips out of plastic bags with vacuum sealed salsa if you're willing to suspend your disbelief that far

 

[Chusep]

Just because potatoes/tomatoes were introduced to Europe a long time ago doesn't mean that they were always there, which is what I mean by anachronistic; if all you're trying to point out is "so what? it's fiction, just suspend your disbelief" then there's no real argument to be had

I sincerely doubt that there's going to be any story explanation for why potatoes/tomatoes are there, which is just a pet-peeve of mine, but the premise of the story revolves around rebuilding civilization from medieval-like environment after the collapse of some ancient civilization, (unless you think it's not somehow) but the fact is that the introduction of potatoes/tomatoes to Europe is the result of huge advancements in seafaring, navigation and military technology AFTER the 15th Century DURING the mid-16th Century (1530's) is that specific enough for you?

that "worst of all' reason of yours is exactly what I'm talking about, so we're supposed to dismiss all historical influences in medieval/fantasy fiction just because Sam from Lord of the Rings said "Po-ta-toes?" they might as well be eating potato chips out of plastic bags with vacuum sealed salsa if you're willing to suspend your disbelief that far

Just because potatoes/tomatoes were introduced to Europe a long time ago doesn't mean that they were always there, which is what I mean by anachronistic; if all you're trying to point out is "so what? it's fiction, just suspend your disbelief" then there's no real argument to be had

I already explained it to you. There was no real argument to be had because your point of being "anachronistic" makes no sense at all. This is not a historical manga. This is a fantasy manga with medieval vibes. They don't have "America". They don't have "Europe". They have a land with medieval technologies. Makes complete sense to have potatoes and tomatoes.

I sincerely doubt that there's going to be any story explanation for why potatoes/tomatoes are there, which is just a pet-peeve of mine, but the premise of the story revolves around rebuilding civilization from medieval-like environment after the collapse of some ancient civilization, (unless you think it's not somehow) but the fact is that the introduction of potatoes/tomatoes to Europe is the result of huge advancements in seafaring, navigation and military technology AFTER the 15th Century DURING the mid-16th Century (1530's) is that specific enough for you?

I, again, explained it to you. There needs no beed to have an explanation on why tomatoes and potatoes are there. This is not middle-ages Europe. This is medieval fantasy, set in an isekai world. It doesn't need no "seafaring advancements" because they didn't need to "seafare" to get those foods.

that "worst of all' reason of yours is exactly what I'm talking about, so we're supposed to dismiss all historical influences in medieval/fantasy fiction just because Sam from Lord of the Rings said "Po-ta-toes?" they might as well be eating potato chips out of plastic bags with vacuum sealed salsa if you're willing to suspend your disbelief that far

Dude, touch grass. Tell me what references to actual historical events have been made in this manga so far. None.

Does it make sense for a medieval person to be eating

potato chips out of plastic bags with vacuum sealed salsa

when they don't even have soap, even less electricity? NO.

Does it make sense for a medieval person to be eating potatoes and tomatoes, which was a staple food people were actually eating at the end of the middle-ages? YES.

Your "peet-peeve" seems to be not thinking.

 

[bluenoirblues]

this isn't the feedback I was looking for when I was making my credits page

 

[bluenoirblues]

I already explained it to you. There was no real argument to be had because your point of being "anachronistic" makes no sense at all. This is not a historical manga. This is a fantasy manga with medieval vibes. They don't have "America". They don't have "Europe". They have a land with medieval technologies. Makes complete sense to have potatoes and tomatoes.


I, again, explained it to you. There needs no beed to have an explanation on why tomatoes and potatoes are there. This is not middle-ages Europe. This is medieval fantasy, set in an isekai world. It doesn't need no "seafaring advancements" because they didn't need to "seafare" to get those foods.

Dude, touch grass. Tell me what references to actual historical events have been made in this manga so far. None.

Does it make sense for a medieval person to be eating

when they don't even have soap, even less electricity? NO.

Does it make sense for a medieval person to be eating potatoes and tomatoes, which was a staple food people were actually eating at the end of the middle-ages? YES.

Your "peet-peeve" seems to be not thinking.

why are you insisting stories w/ "medieval vibes" makes sense to have potatoes and tomatoes"?
that's what I wanna know, even after I spelled out to you that the middle ages ended before anyone in Europe discovered potatoes/tomatoes (the 15th Century means 1400-1500, not the mid-16th Century)

"Does it make sense for a medieval person to be eating potatoes and tomatoes, which was a staple food people were actually eating at the end of the middle-ages?"
NO because they weren't; they thought nightshade plants were poisonous so potatoes/tomatoes were grown for decoration
and when they were eating them, they're in the Renaissance period and were not medieval people anymore (I guess most people don't care to differentiate them, when do you think Europeans ate potatoes, and when do you think they were introduced? the "at the end of Middle Ages" 500-1500 is incorrect)

your argument is fixated on 'it's not real history, so anachronisms can't exist'?
anachronism can ONLY be depicted in fictitious works;
it doesn't make sense for them to eat something they shouldn't have access to is MY point
you should already understand what this means w/ the potato chips and salsa example

this series hasn't exactly been fantasy-esque either, so what does your 'medieval vibes' mean if not medieval specifically?
real plants like Aloe exist so it's not like a magical plant from a fantasy world
Hamburger Steak is another anachronism that comes up in the story, but there was an explanation for that!
it's not a fantasy dish like Lembas Bread or anything; and it's not only this series, LotR was just the first one to do it
I could list more series but can only think of 2 that came up w/ story explanations for potatoes/tomatoes

 

[Chusep]

why are you insisting stories w/ "medieval vibes" makes sense to have potatoes and tomatoes"?
that's what I wanna know, even after I spelled out to you that the middle ages ended before anyone in Europe discovered potatoes/tomatoes (the 15th Century means 1400-1500, not the mid-16th Century)

"Does it make sense for a medieval person to be eating potatoes and tomatoes, which was a staple food people were actually eating at the end of the middle-ages?"
NO because they weren't; they thought nightshade plants were poisonous so potatoes/tomatoes were grown for decoration
and when they were eating them, they're in the Renaissance period and were not medieval people anymore (I guess most people don't care to differentiate them)

your argument is fixated on 'it's not real history, so anachronisms can't exist'?
anachronism can ONLY be depicted in fictitious works;
it doesn't make sense for them to eat something they shouldn't have access to is MY point
you should already understand what this means w/ the potato chips and salsa example

this series hasn't exactly been fantasy-esque either, so what does your 'medieval vibes' mean if not medieval specifically?
real plants like Aloe exist so it's not like a magical plant from a fantasy world
Hamburger Steak is another anachronism that comes up in the story, but there was an explanation for that!
it's not a fantasy dish like Lembas Bread or anything; and it's not only this series, LotR was just the first one to do it
I could list more series but can only think of 2 that came up w/ story explanations for potatoes/tomatoes

why are you insisting stories w/ "medieval vibes" makes sense to have potatoes and tomatoes"?

And why are you insisting that they don't?

that's what I wanna know, even after I spelled out to you that the middle ages ended before anyone in Europe discovered potatoes/tomatoes (the 15th Century means 1400-1500, not the mid-16th Century)

Ohhh, careful, you spelled out something!!!
And I explained it to you that the middle ages ended at the end of the 15th century, in 1492-1500. Potatoes were brought back in 1500, just 36 years after we got potatoes and tomatoes.

"Does it make sense for a medieval person to be eating potatoes and tomatoes, which was a staple food people were actually eating at the end of the middle-ages?"
NO because they weren't; they thought nightshade plants were poisonous so potatoes/tomatoes were grown for decoration
and when they were eating them, they're in the Renaissance period and were not medieval people anymore (I guess most people don't care to differentiate them)

Now I see you're just misinformed.

NO, that's not what happened. Do you think the Spaniards that got the potatoes from the native people didn't know they were food? Hello, Columbian exchange?

your argument is fixated on 'it's not real history, so anachronisms can't exist'?

anachronism
/əˈnakrənɪz(ə)m/
noun

1. a thing belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists, especially a thing that is conspicuously old-fashioned.
   "the town is a throwback to medieval times, an anachronism that has survived the passing years"
   • the action of attributing something to a period to which it does not belong.
     "it is anachronism to suppose that the official morality of the age was mere window dressing"

Now, how is this an anachronism when there's NO PERIOD in this manga because it is NOT historical?
Having phones on a manga based on the tale of the 3 kingdoms is an anachronism. Having potatoes in a manga about middle-ages Europe is anachronism.

Having potatoes in a manga where people simply lost their technology is not.

And, in this manga, civilization HAD ALREADY developed past what we would consider 18th century. Therefore, potatoes didn't just "disapear" when they were already there.

it doesn't make sense for them to eat something they shouldn't have access to is MY point
you should already understand what this means w/ the potato chips and salsa example

I already explained it how your example is stupid.

Potatoes require no knowledge other than planting it. Potato chips require industrialization and electricity, salsa requires chemistry.

Potatoes are, shockingly enough, PLANTS.

Your point is null because you seem fixated in the fact that potatoes can't exist without having visited the americas, in a japanese manga that has no americas and no middle-ages. Guess what, the Spanish Empire didn't exist either. Colón wasn't born.

this series hasn't exactly been fantasy-esque either, so what does your 'medieval vibes' mean if not medieval specifically?

Pretty sure anyone past 5 can answer that. The manga is inspired in 15th-century Europe. Construction, agriculture, clothing, science, strata of society...

Hamburger Steak is another anachronism that comes up in the story, but there was an explanation for that!
it's not a fantasy dish like Lembas Bread or anything; and it's not only this series, LotR was just the first one to do it
I could list more series but can only think of 2 that came up w/ story explanations for potatoes/tomatoes

You keep repeating "anachronism" when you don't know what that word means.
This is NOT a historical manga. If this was a historical manga, this would be an anachronism.

Minced meat exists in this manga. Civilization was, at one point, developed enough to reach industrialism.
How can you not understand that minced meat was simply kept as an actual recipy?

To end, I'll try to ELI5 this to you:

This manga is set in a world where civilization reached a peak and degraded. This is not set in Europe. This is not set on Earth.
Potatoes exist because they were either already a native crop, or were adquired from somewhere else in that world over the centuries that navigation existed.

Potatoes aren't anachronism. Minced meat isn't anachronic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anachronism

My advice: Stop being so hung-up about "your pet-peeve", aka being misinformed. This is not set in Europe, so your complaint is invalid.

 

[bluenoirblues]

And why are you insisting that they don't?

Ohhh, careful, you spelled out something!!!
And I explained it to you that the middle ages ended at the end of the 15th century, in 1492-1500. Potatoes were brought back in 1500, just 36 years after we got potatoes and tomatoes.


Now I see you're just misinformed.

NO, that's not what happened. Do you think the Spaniards that got the potatoes from the native people didn't know they were food? Hello, Columbian exchange?


anachronism
/əˈnakrənɪz(ə)m/
noun

1. a thing belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists, especially a thing that is conspicuously old-fashioned.
   "the town is a throwback to medieval times, an anachronism that has survived the passing years"
   • the action of attributing something to a period to which it does not belong.
     "it is anachronism to suppose that the official morality of the age was mere window dressing"

Now, how is this an anachronism when there's NO PERIOD in this manga because it is NOT historical?
Having phones on a manga based on the tale of the 3 kingdoms is an anachronism. Having potatoes in a manga about middle-ages Europe is anachronism.

Having potatoes in a manga where people simply lost their technology is not.

And, in this manga, civilization HAD ALREADY developed past what we would consider 18th century. Therefore, potatoes didn't just "disapear" when they were already there.



I already explained it how your example is stupid.

Potatoes require no knowledge other than planting it. Potato chips require industrialization and electricity, salsa requires chemistry.

Potatoes are, shockingly enough, PLANTS.

Your point is null because you seem fixated in the fact that potatoes can't exist without having visited the americas, in a japanese manga that has no americas and no middle-ages. Guess what, the Spanish Empire didn't exist either. Colón wasn't born.



Pretty sure anyone past 5 can answer that. The manga is inspired in 15th-century Europe. Construction, agriculture, clothing, science, strata of society...



You keep repeating "anachronism" when you don't know what that word means.
This is NOT a historical manga. If this was a historical manga, this would be an anachronism.

Minced meat exists in this manga. Civilization was, at one point, developed enough to reach industrialism.
How can you not understand that minced meat was simply kept as an actual recipy?

To end, I'll try to ELI5 this to you:

This manga is set in a world where civilization reached a peak and degraded. This is not set in Europe. This is not set on Earth.
Potatoes exist because they were either already a native crop, or were adquired from somewhere else in that world over the centuries that navigation existed.

Potatoes aren't anachronism. Minced meat isn't anachronic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anachronism

My advice: Stop being so hung-up about "your pet-peeve", aka being misinformed. This is not set in Europe, so your complaint is invalid.

do you want me drop "anachronism" so that you won't get hung up on vocabulary and instead try to understand what I'm saying? What difference does it make if a medieval-inspired story has smart phones or potatoes? Unless there's context or an explanation for them, NEITHER of them make any sense, BOTH are equally out of place; unless it's a magic slate that's like a phone or a potato-like crop from the Demon Continent, you understand?? (even Hamburg Steak was a product of the 18th Century "minced meat isn't anachronic" nonsense)

You keep defaulting to a "it's not a historical manga" argument like that invalidates my criticism: "if it's a medieval-inspired story why are there foods from outside the medieval era?" how about you start using some better arguments instead of "why not?"

Like "how could YOU say it's a fantasy manga when there hasn't been any fantasy elements?"
or "if it's not set on Earth, why are there REAL plants and animals from Earth and not fictional ones?"
there's nothing in this series that gives any explanation for how they have potatoes/tomatoes, anything you're projecting is just as speculative and not supportive of your argument

You've also failed to understand that "36 years after 1500 AD" is AFTER the Middle Ages not AT THE END OF not even SOON AFTER either; and somehow believe everyone across Europe was growing and eating potatoes/tomatoes the second the Spanish brought them back
The Light Novel is more historically accurate than you in the sense that Arthur believed tomatoes to be poisonous and shouldn't be eaten, -“You shouldn’t eat anything as dangerous as tomatoes! They’re just for viewing!” Right, nightshades. I reflexively nodded several times at my own realization. LN Vol. 2

and before you go fervently trying to Google me wrong, I'll save you the trouble
"why the tomato was feared in Europe for more than 200 years" -Smithsonian Magazine
"many people believed that the potato (tuber) was poisonous. The potato plant itself is indigestible and can make you sick" -The University of Vermont

And even if you think they were in a 1530's post-medieval-like setting, they don't even have gunpowder arms, which was prevalent in the Middle Ages during the 1000-1300's so unless you have another speculative explanation for that, I doubt it amounts to anything other than "it's not a historical manga, it's not Europe, it's not Earth etc."

Are you really the type to refuse to admit when you're wrong? I'm sorry, but I'd appreciate it if you stop pestering me w/ your nonsense so that I can focus on continuing to translate the series, thx

 

[Chusep]

do you want me drop "anachronism" so that you won't get hung up on vocabulary and instead try to understand what I'm saying? What difference does it make if a medieval-inspired story has smart phones or potatoes? Unless there's context or an explanation for them, NEITHER of them make any sense, BOTH are equally out of place; unless it's a magic slate that's like a phone or a potato-like crop from the Demon Continent, you understand?? (even Hamburg Steak was a product of the 18th Century "minced meat isn't anachronic" nonsense)

You keep defaulting to a "it's not a historical manga" argument like that invalidates my criticism: "if it's a medieval-inspired story why are there foods from outside the medieval era?" how about you start using some better arguments instead of "why not?"

Like "how could YOU say it's a fantasy manga when there hasn't been any fantasy elements?"
or "if it's not set on Earth, why are there REAL plants and animals from Earth and not fictional ones?"
there's nothing in this series that gives any explanation for how they have potatoes/tomatoes, anything you're projecting is just as speculative and not supportive of your argument

You've also failed to understand that "36 years after 1500 AD" is AFTER the Middle Ages not AT THE END OF not even SOON AFTER either; and somehow believe everyone across Europe was growing and eating potatoes/tomatoes the second the Spanish brought them back
The Light Novel is more historically accurate than you in the sense that Arthur believed tomatoes to be poisonous and shouldn't be eaten, -“You shouldn’t eat anything as dangerous as tomatoes! They’re just for viewing!” Right, nightshades. I reflexively nodded several times at my own realization. LN Vol. 2

and before you go fervently trying to Google me wrong, I'll save you the trouble
"why the tomato was feared in Europe for more than 200 years" -Smithsonian Magazine
"many people believed that the potato (tuber) was poisonous. The potato plant itself is indigestible and can make you sick" -The University of Vermont

And even if you think they were in a 1530's post-medieval-like setting, they don't even have gunpowder arms, which was prevalent in the Middle Ages during the 1000-1300's so unless you have another speculative explanation for that, I doubt it amounts to anything other than "it's not a historical manga, it's not Europe, it's not Earth etc."

Are you really the type to refuse to admit when you're wrong? I'm sorry, but I'd appreciate it if you stop pestering me w/ your nonsense so that I can focus on continuing to translate the series, thx

do you want me drop "anachronism" so that you won't get hung up on vocabulary and instead try to understand what I'm saying?

I know perfectly what you're saying. It's simply that you don't know how to use that word.

What difference does it make if a medieval-inspired story has smart phones or potatoes?

LOL. Dude, get real. Seriously? You fail to understand how having crops on a manga centered about the lack of technology makes sense, but a smatphone doesn't?

Unless there's context or an explanation for them, NEITHER of them make any sense, BOTH are equally out of place;

I explained this to you four times already. No, potatoes aren't out of place. Potatoes are plants.
This manga isn't set in Europe. This manga isn't historical. This manga isn't based on actual real life.
Therefore, they are not out of place because this is another world.

Do I have to remind you that this manga is set in a completely different world that has lost their technological progress?

unless it's a magic slate that's like a phone or a potato-like crop from the Demon Continent, you understand?? (even Hamburg Steak was a product of the 18th Century "minced meat isn't anachronic" nonsense)

It seems like you're the one who doesn't understand. There is no 18th century Hamburg in this manga. Therefore, there's no anachronism and what you are saying is nonsense. Told you 4 times this.

You keep defaulting to a "it's not a historical manga" argument like that invalidates my criticism: "if it's a medieval-inspired story why are there foods from outside the medieval era?" how about you start using some better arguments instead of "why not?"

I don't "keep defaulting" to shit. I'm explaining to you why your criticism has no point.
YOU are the one who keeps saying "why potatoes on my manga".
I'm explaining to you why. This is not a historical manga. Potatoes can be a native crop of where he lives. It's not that I'm "not using arguments", it's that you are ignoring them.

You've also failed to understand that "36 years after 1500 AD" is AFTER the Middle Ages not AT THE END OF not even SOON AFTER either; and somehow believe everyone across Europe was growing and eating potatoes/tomatoes the second the Spanish brought them back
The Light Novel is more historically accurate than you in the sense that Arthur believed tomatoes to be poisonous and shouldn't be eaten, -“You shouldn’t eat anything as dangerous as tomatoes! They’re just for viewing!” Right, nightshades. I reflexively nodded several times at my own realization. LN Vol. 2

And you've also failed to understand that you're the only one who is claiming this manga is set in the middle ages, which is not. But I guess it's not easy to make you understand that.

But you seem to fail to understand the own text you're copying. He's nodding because he is aware that nightshades can be poisonous if not prepared properly. Which the Spaniards learned because they literally saw the natives eating them.

In 1553, in Cronica de Peru Pedro Cieza de León referred to the plant as a "battata".[21] Cieza de Leon, a private soldier accompanying the Spaniards on an expedition in Popayán, found that potatoes and maize were the staple food

So, 1553 has written accounts of this. Better than a LN for sure.

and before you go fervently trying to Google me wrong, I'll save you the trouble
"why the tomato was feared in Europe for more than 200 years" -Smithsonian Magazine
"many people believed that the potato (tuber) was poisonous. The potato plant itself is indigestible and can make you sick" -The University of Vermont

You're the one "fervently" trying to google something about my own culture lol.
Check quote above.

And even if you think they were in a 1530's post-medieval-like setting, they don't even have gunpowder arms, which was prevalent in the Middle Ages during the 1000-1300's so unless you have another speculative explanation for that, I doubt it amounts to anything other than "it's not a historical manga, it's not Europe, it's not Earth etc."

No shit. This manga is set about a civilization that has lost all kinds of technology, including COMPOST.
Are you going to call the own manga you're arguing about "speculative"? Because it is made perfectly clear that knowledge has been lost and needs to be recovered through books.

Are you really the type to refuse to admit when you're wrong? I'm sorry, but I'd appreciate it if you stop pestering me w/ your nonsense so that I can focus on continuing to translate the series, thx

Sounds to me like you're the type who refuses to admit when you're wrong, buddy. Other people also pointed out how your comments regarding potatoes make no sense at all. So I recommend you grow up a little bit and start listening to what you're being told. Not like you need that focus with MTL.

 

[bluenoirblues]

I know perfectly what you're saying. It's simply that you don't know how to use that word.

LOL. Dude, get real. Seriously? You fail to understand how having crops on a manga centered about the lack of technology makes sense, but a smatphone doesn't?


I explained this to you four times already. No, potatoes aren't out of place. Potatoes are plants.
This manga isn't set in Europe. This manga isn't historical. This manga isn't based on actual real life.
Therefore, they are not out of place because this is another world.

Do I have to remind you that this manga is set in a completely different world that has lost their technological progress?



It seems like you're the one who doesn't understand. There is no 18th century Hamburg in this manga. Therefore, there's no anachronism and what you are saying is nonsense. Told you 4 times this.


I don't "keep defaulting" to shit. I'm explaining to you why your criticism has no point.
YOU are the one who keeps saying "why potatoes on my manga".
I'm explaining to you why. This is not a historical manga. Potatoes can be a native crop of where he lives. It's not that I'm "not using arguments", it's that you are ignoring them.



And you've also failed to understand that you're the only one who is claiming this manga is set in the middle ages, which is not. But I guess it's not easy to make you understand that.

But you seem to fail to understand the own text you're copying. He's nodding because he is aware that nightshades can be poisonous if not prepared properly. Which the Spaniards learned because they literally saw the natives eating them.


So, 1553 has written accounts of this. Better than a LN for sure.


You're the one "fervently" trying to google something about my own culture lol.
Check quote above.


No shit. This manga is set about a civilization that has lost all kinds of technology, including COMPOST.
Are you going to call the own manga you're arguing about "speculative"? Because it is made perfectly clear that knowledge has been lost and needs to be recovered through books.



Sounds to me like you're the type who refuses to admit when you're wrong, buddy. Other people also pointed out how your comments regarding potatoes make no sense at all. So I recommend you grow up a little bit and start listening to what you're being told. Not like you need that focus with MTL.

the premise of my argument is "this is clearly a medieval-inspired story w/ a similar setting and real plants and animals, but the non-medieval foods are out of place"
if you think it's only got "medieval vibes" and refuse to even engage w/ that premise, saying "it's clearly another world, so anything is acceptable!"

then there's no reasoning w/ you, it's not like it's overtly magical like Ascendance of a Bookworm or anything; you're making a (weak) separate argument that has nothing to do w/ mine

If kangaroos were in this story w/o context would THAT be acceptable to you?? You understand what I mean now?
After all, it's an animal that lives in the wild that lives alongside people or w/e your logic was for tomatoes/potatoes being OK
But they're both from a completely different hemisphere! I'm saying there should at least be some EXPLANATION in the story like w/ the Hamburg Steak

otherwise the ONLY valid counter-argument YOU could make is :
"Well, maybe the author didn't realize they're not medieval crops, after all, I didn't know either"

This is not a historical manga. Potatoes can be a native crop of where he lives

Maybe there are platypuses where he lives too, if there are real plants and animals in the story, why not? Nonsense
This is what I meant about your "It's not really medieval, so what?" speculative argument
"it's an isekai, it's not real, it's fictional" all sound like the same argument to me...

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for the isekai, but why are you drawing your line in the sand at "anything can come from anywhere" while "lost their technological progress" could easily mean there was a civilization analogous (AS IN SIMILAR TO) Ancient Rome (who also didn't discover tomatoes despite all their cuisine btw)

So what's with this leap in logic where you think maybe they crashed landed on another world or something, where everything from Earth is in the same place? I'm not even entertaining that idea as a counter-argument

I'm happy to clarify my criticism, but there's not talking your way out of how you wrong you were about medieval people eating potatoes as staples, unless you wanna point out someone born in 1499 grew up to be 37 and decided to find out what all these Spaniards were up to in the New World so "technically, medieval Europeans AFTER the Middle Ages could've started eating them then" (which would still be a poor argument completely missing the mark)

Also I can't help but notice that 1553 is even FURTHER past when you thought medieval people were eating potatoes, so what point were you trying to make? "it was only a few 53 years, so it's basically right after the Middle Ages"?? even more nonsense

"You're the one "fervently" trying to google something about my own culture lol"
I don't even know who you are, and I couldn't care less, but you seem defensive for some reason
Did I say something offensive about European history? I'm all ears

I've been nothing but be critical of the lack of explanation of something in a fictitious story, you want me to apologize for something when you've been doing nothing but try to get a rise out of me? If you don't care about being disparaging, why should I? So try thinking a bit more before you type, or I'm gonna keep talking down to you like you're a simpleton

 

[Chusep]

the premise of my argument is "this is clearly a medieval-inspired story w/ a similar setting and real plants and animals, but the non-medieval foods are out of place"
if you think it's only got "medieval vibes" and refuse to even engage w/ that premise, saying "it's clearly another world, so anything is acceptable!"

then there's no reasoning w/ you, it's not like it's overtly magical like Ascendance of a Bookworm or anything; you're making a (weak) separate argument that has nothing to do w/ mine

If kangaroos were in this story w/o context would THAT be acceptable to you?? You understand what I mean now?
After all, it's an animal that lives in the wild that lives alongside people or w/e your logic was for tomatoes/potatoes being OK
But they're both from a completely different hemisphere! I'm saying there should at least be some EXPLANATION in the story like w/ the Hamburg Steak

otherwise the ONLY valid counter-argument YOU could make is :
"Well, maybe the author didn't realize they're not medieval crops, after all, I didn't know either"


Maybe there are platypuses where he lives too, if there are real plants and animals in the story, why not? Nonsense
This is what I meant about your "It's not really medieval, so what?" speculative argument
"it's an isekai, it's not real, it's fictional" all sound like the same argument to me...

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for the isekai, but why are you drawing your line in the sand at "anything can come from anywhere" while "lost their technological progress" could easily mean there was a civilization analogous (AS IN SIMILAR TO) Ancient Rome (who also didn't discover tomatoes despite all their cuisine btw)

So what's with this leap in logic where you think maybe they crashed landed on another world or something, where everything from Earth is in the same place? I'm not even entertaining that idea as a counter-argument

I'm happy to clarify my criticism, but there's not talking your way out of how you wrong you were about medieval people eating potatoes as staples, unless you wanna point out someone born in 1499 grew up to be 37 and decided to find out what all these Spaniards were up to in the New World so "technically, medieval Europeans AFTER the Middle Ages could've started eating them then" (which would still be a poor argument completely missing the mark)

Also I can't help but notice that 1553 is even FURTHER past when you thought medieval people were eating potatoes, so what point were you trying to make? "it was only a few 53 years, so it's basically right after the Middle Ages"?? even more nonsense

"You're the one "fervently" trying to google something about my own culture lol"
I don't even know who you are, and I couldn't care less, but you seem defensive for some reason
Did I say something offensive about European history? I'm all ears

I've been nothing but be critical of the lack of explanation of something in a fictitious story, you want me to apologize for something when you've been doing nothing but try to get a rise out of me? If you don't care about being disparaging, why should I? So try thinking a bit more before you type, or I'm gonna keep talking down to you like you're a simpleton

I'm pretty sure you're the simpleton here.

Been explaining you for a while that your argument about potatoes being there "before the middle-ages" is stupid because there's no americas there, and there's no Columbus there, so it makes complete sense to have potatoes and tomatoes there, and yes, even kangaroos if you so want them to be.

But still, you're ignoring the biggest thing against your argument (of not having the technology of sea-faring):

The whole premise of this manga is the MC being reincarnated with knowledge of humanity being more developed in the past. Technology lost and the whole premise being the recovery of such technology and progress.

So even if this fantasy world had an america and a Columbus, this travel to the new world would have happened thousands of years before now, therefore the potato being there by millenia.


Like, I can't explain this to you in an easier way to understand.

 

[bluenoirblues]

I'm pretty sure you're the simpleton here.

Been explaining you for a while that your argument about potatoes being there "before the middle-ages" is stupid because there's no americas there, and there's no Columbus there, so it makes complete sense to have potatoes and tomatoes there, and yes, even kangaroos if you so want them to be.

But still, you're ignoring the biggest thing against your argument (of not having the technology of sea-faring):

The whole premise of this manga is the MC being reincarnated with knowledge of humanity being more developed in the past. Technology lost and the whole premise being the recovery of such technology and progress.

So even if this fantasy world had an america and a Columbus, this travel to the new world would have happened thousands of years before now, therefore the potato being there by millenia.


Like, I can't explain this to you in an easier way to understand.

if you think it makes sense for this kind of story to have kangaroos/capybaras/penguins w/o explanation,
that would make it even more deserving of criticism; if these things were to exist at all, they can't be in the same place at the same time w/o reason

This "there's NO evidence that they COULDN'T have already brought them over" argument would still need be supported by SOMETHING, more than "there was more advanced technology in the past" which is just vague, ambiguous and was not even alluded to what extent in the story so far, (Ancient Roman-like technology maybe, because that'd still be more advance than their medieval-esque setting and not a Horizon: Zero Dawn-like technology, where they're actually in the far-future w/ robot dinosaurs walking around)

whether the story is strictly historical or not doesn't matter, the food was specific enough
any fiction can be within the realm of believability, but only if there's believable context

My criticism was as simple as:
tomatoes/potatoes don't make sense in this story w/o explanation, but they COULD make sense if there were

this is a repeating troupe of misconceptions persisting across medieval/fantasy media
that results in people like you, who couldn't distinguish fact from fiction
where seeing LotR or w/e suggested fictional medieval people ate potatoes so it must've happened for real

or at best, you didn't know the difference between the Middle Ages and the post-medieval/Renaissance Period
when those crops were starting to be cultivated across Europe
(but I doubt you'd admit to that either)

maybe if you knew more about European history, we never would've needed to have this discussion in the first place

 

[Chusep]

if you think it makes sense for this kind of story to have kangaroos/capybaras/penguins w/o explanation,
that would make it even more deserving of criticism; if these things were to exist at all, they can't be in the same place at the same time w/o reason

This "there's NO evidence that they COULDN'T have already brought them over" argument would still need be supported by SOMETHING, more than "there was more advanced technology in the past" which is just vague, ambiguous and was not even alluded to what extent in the story so far, (Ancient Roman-like technology maybe, because that'd still be more advance than their medieval-esque setting and not a Horizon: Zero Dawn-like technology, where they're actually in the far-future w/ robot dinosaurs walking around)

whether the story is strictly historical or not doesn't matter, the food was specific enough
any fiction can be within the realm of believability, but only if there's believable context

My criticism was as simple as:
tomatoes/potatoes don't make sense in this story w/o explanation, but they COULD make sense if there were

this is a repeating troupe of misconceptions persisting across medieval/fantasy media
that results in people like you, who couldn't distinguish fact from fiction
where seeing LotR or w/e suggested fictional medieval people ate potatoes so it must've happened for real

or at best, you didn't know the difference between the Middle Ages and the post-medieval/Renaissance Period
when those crops were starting to be cultivated across Europe
(but I doubt you'd admit to that either)

maybe if you knew more about European history, we never would've needed to have this discussion in the first place

if you think it makes sense for this kind of story to have kangaroos/capybaras/penguins w/o explanation,
that would make it even more deserving of criticism; if these things were to exist at all, they can't be in the same place at the same time w/o reason

Yes, because potatoes in Europe are as strange as kangaroos in Europe. No wonder you still don't get what you're being told.

This "there's NO evidence that they COULDN'T have already brought them over" argument would still need be supported by SOMETHING, more than "there was more advanced technology in the past" which is just vague, ambiguous and was not even alluded to what extent in the story so far, (Ancient Roman-like technology maybe, because that'd still be more advance than their medieval-esque setting and not a Horizon: Zero Dawn-like technology, where they're actually in the far-future w/ robot dinosaurs walking around)

You're the only one who keeps crying about a manga having potatoes. YOU are the one who are not supporting your point. YOU are the one whose point is vague, ambiguous and not even alluded to.
The manga is pretty clear: Serf-like life, no sanitation, no technology, medieval-like world. A world that had sanitation, had technology, and had progress.

Your point is that they don't have the technology to go get "potatoes", because for some reason you're crying about how potatoes need to be imported from somewhere even in a fantasy manga.
And your point is still ignoring the fact that this same manga HAD the technology.

whether the story is strictly historical or not doesn't matter, the food was specific enough
any fiction can be within the realm of believability, but only if there's believable context

It absolutely does matter. And you're the only person in the world that would think having potatoes is not believable. Other people already told you so. And there is "believable context": This manga is centered about technology existing in the past.

My criticism was as simple as:
tomatoes/potatoes don't make sense in this story w/o explanation, but they COULD make sense if there were

And I've said 6 times now that your criticism is stupid. Potatoes and tomatoes make sense. This is not Europe, this is not the real world, this doesn't share our timeline, those plants can easily be native. And even if you cry about this being Europe, this manga is about people losing technology like seafaring, so they HAD the opportunity to bring them from somewhere else.

this is a repeating troupe of misconceptions persisting across medieval/fantasy media
that results in people like you, who couldn't distinguish fact from fiction

No. You're the one who has the misconception that a manga needs to be based in the real world.
That results in people like you that get upset because a medieval-like manga has potatoes. People
like you, who can't distinguish fact from fiction. Who can't understand this is a manga about a world that is not Earth.

or at best, you didn't know the difference between the Middle Ages and the post-medieval/Renaissance Period
when those crops were starting to be cultivated across Europe
(but I doubt you'd admit to that either)

Says the dude who isn't even european. But yeah sure, explain to me how my country, Spain, used the potatoes they brought back from the new world. You, who don't even live in Europe.

maybe if you knew more about European history, we never would've needed to have this discussion in the first place

Maybe if you weren't such an ignorant you wouldn't be explaining an european, a Spaniard, about a staple food of their culture.

You need to touch some grass and stop crying because a manga has potatoes. You have a problem.

 

[Valhalla_101]

According to j-novel this is part of volume 5. Not volume 6