GATE - Jieitai Kanochi nite, Kaku Tatakaeri - Ch. 79.2

[Vykos]

blushing Beefeater = best Beefeater

 

[Drifter]

Wait. Whats this? Did the author finally realize that even when using guns against a bunch of guys with swords someone is going to get in a swing every now and then?

@AbuHajaar This manga would have benefited from a Black Hawk Down scenario early on so subsequent JSDF vs fantasy fights would have had a bit of tension. Its still not too late. Its an easy scenario to imagine too - A wyvern swoops in on a helicopter. Gunners hit it but momentum still carries it to collide with the heli.

 

[infocam]

There is always a point where you can have enough manpower to overwhelm a platoon(?) of soldiers with assault rifles / SAWs firing at you...

...though not the minigun (see page 8)

 

[degenerateafro]

@Drifter The novel is very nationalistic. It's pretty "rah rah, Japan is the best" in the way it's written. Not that there is anything wrong with being proud of your country. Just that you should keep the mindset of the writer in mind when reading certain parts. For example in the first chapter they mentioned they killed around 100k soldiers during the assault on Alnus hill. However what are the odds that a trained military would run 100k soldiers into a fortified bunker until they were completely wiped out? The more reasonable action would be to siege the location. Even with the Gate as a supply point, as long as they made it so the Japanese couldn't expand out from the hill, it wouldn't matter how long it took for the hill itself to actually fall. Of course the people of this world are too stupid to understand siege tactics so you get the one sided slaughter as described in the story. Completely unrealistic, but very convenient for establishing the difference in strength between the JSDF and the primitive military forces they were facing.
Before anyone says "well the King was the one who pushed them into rushing the hill and maybe he didn't understand siege tactics", that is highly unlikely. The king was the one who suggested they burn all of the villages and fields surrounding the hill and poison all of the wells. That is a legit siege tactic for preventing expansion into the kingdom, but he only did that after they had lost the bulk of his military might which, again, is absolutely absurd. If someone understands tactics to that level they know better than to run all of their forces into a grinder leaving themselves in a situation where they cannot defend themselves.

 

[Yautja]

@degenerateafro
Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, those 100k soldiers and their leaders were unaware of who was occupying the hill and what they could do. They were under the assumption the could walk up there and take it. Which isn't an unreasonable assumption considering their little strike force that went through the gate at the start managed to make it back without seeing the actual army while taking slaves and doing some damage. So the 100k dying isn't all that unrealistic considering the circumstances. If it were to occur now, okay. But then, meh.

 

[degenerateafro]

@Yautja There's still a problem with that, the initial attack where they sent 20~30k soldiers through the gate got decimated. That was what cased the JSDF to come through the gate and bunker on Alnus in the first place. When the Japanese came through the gate and set up shop, do we really assume that the empire just let them do it without any resistance? Meaning that that initial assault shown in chapter 1 after the attack in Japan had to happen during the points where the hill still wasn't completely fortified (again going from the manga alone, the anime had some fortifications). If the hill wasn't fortified, then 100k soldiers attacking it should have been able to rush it and at least cause some Japanese casualties. If the hill was fortified, there is absolutely no reason for the army to rush all 100k soldiers up the hill when they know for sure that the Japanese are strong enough to wipe out the initial battalion sent through the gate. Good tactics would deem that you would send a small detachment of troops, maybe 5k, to gauge the strength of the enemy and look for holes in their defense. Charging 100k troops up a hill without any preparation or knowledge of what is going on is just suicide and something any strategist would avoid. So the only assumption we can make is that this empire; one that is based off of the Holy Roman empire, and has experience in raiding other worlds through gates if the story is to be believes; has no strategists and relies on brute force to win all of their battles. Yet they know enough about tactics that after they lose, the burn down all of the surrounding area and poison the wells so that the enemy troops can't advance.

Even if they pushed forward with the assault on the hill without any information the whole, "Surprise, your 20k vanguard unit is all dead", should have been enough for them to say "whoa, wait a minute. Perhaps we should take a step back and reassess the situation". Nope, instead they lost so many soldiers on their initial push that they didn't even have enough military strength left to defend their own country, so they had to con the unified armies of all of their smaller surrounding neighbors to come in and get themselves slaughtered in a similar manner so that the emperor wasn't overthrown.

It's completely nonsense for a country that relies entirely on military might to act in that way, but it makes for an entertaining opening to the story. How did they manage to survive previous gate openings without tactics or strategy? Heck the proper order would have been to order the Unified army to attack the hill first in order to gauge the enemies strength. Sure it would have delayed the assault, but he wouldn't have been risking his empires troops to the point that they couldn't defend themselves.

 

[Yautja]

@degenerateafro
And where are those numbers listed? And they didn't get 'decimated'? I literally just referenced them going through the gate, causing damage, taking slaves and making it back. A lot of them retreated before real soldiers got there and those who didn't died or were captured. They don't have modern communication or the ability to spread information. IE; There's a lot of misinformation and confusion there. Certainly not enough info for the empire to assume that the Japanese were as strong as they are. Not to mention they'd have no knowledge concrete knowledge of what kind of actual weapons or the scale of said weapons the Japanese have. Dude, you're just talking out of your ass, like an r/imverysmart and r/im14andthisisdeep guy who assumes that they characters have the same near omniscient knowledge of the story the readers do as well as our historical experience with different types of warfare. You're coming off as that high-schooler who read the Art of War last week and decided they're now qualified to be a military tactician.

 

[degenerateafro]

@Yautja The numbers are from the manga. In chapter 1 page 37, Itami estimates "including Ginza this makes about 120k". Ginza was the attach through the gate. In Chapter 2 page 4 of the story you have the King being informed of 100k losses on Alnus hill. 100k losses on Itami's guess of 120k including Ginza - the 100k that we lost on Alnus hill alone leaves around 20k dead in Ginza. In addition chapter 8 page 10, Pina is informed by Lord Dulan that 100k people of the Unified army died at Alnus Hill after the intial empire push from Chapter 1. In chapter 8 page 13 you have a general confirm that 300k forces were deployed from the Unified army to fight. Meaning 1/3 of their army was killed. Again in Chapter 8 page 20, three times they tried to storm the hill and each time they were repulsed before they made it half way up. So their 100k loses as stated by Lord Dulan occurred in three pushes meaning around 33k troops each push were wiped out.

I'm sorry, but losing 1/3 of your forces in the initial attack is what I would call decimated.

Also as for the insults, no need to throw them in. You can read up on Roman warfare pretty much anywhere. No need to bring in the Art of War. Just standard military tactics of the time period represented in the manga.

 

[Wolvenworks]

wow. this scene looks a hell lot more epic than in the anime, where the romans just kinda wave their sticks and get mowed instead of actually having a fight....and getting literally mowed by a chinook.

brutal.

 

[HYBRID_BEING]

@Sternberg
Manga Beefeater design > Anime (and novel?) Beefeater design

 

[Xelda]

@Drifter

The author never failed to realise that, hence the "overkill" at Alnus Hill. In quoutes there because I've seen people refer to it as such, but as you said, the enemy they're fighting are serious and though their weapons are primitive, if you give them an inch they'll kill some people. That's why at Alnus they took no chances - they set up a defence so strong that they could wipe out 100,000 soldiers without a single Japanese casuality.

That's how many of their operations have commenced thus far. In Italica they sent a whole bunch of helicopters when, let's be honest, one or two would have sufficed, but no matter how small they had to eliminate any and all elements of risk. The encounter in the throne room, Itami and his squad got lucky that only a small squad of soldiers confronted them. If the earthquake hadn't just happened they'd have been in a heap of trouble after attacking the prince like that.

This chapter, they weren't that lucky. This wasn't an encounter they had prepared for like the recent back-up they offered to the knights. It was very sudden and they had to improvise, and as such they very nearly lost some soldiers.

 

[GaryMahmud]

judging by these comments, GATE should've chapter those counter attack and fort making, it would make it more interesting and in-depth