Goals of Forum and Comment Moderation on MD

[Kierlak]

OniBarubary is exactly the type of person that must absolutely be kept out of any moderator role. It's obvious that any push back at all regarding anything trans or gay would be one sidedly shut down, rules and fairness be damned.

 

[Zephyrus]

@Anonyan
There is currently no need for such a system to be put in place. @Holo ultimately decides if a moderator is guilty of misconduct if allegations of such are made.

@WoodyCyber
Yeah, I guess you can cuss at fictional characters. Can't exactly hurt their feelings. :v

@Kierlak
Can we please not turn this into a mud slinging contest? I've already made it clear that there will be no forum mod additions at this time.

 

[Anonyan]

@Kierlak Man, I prefer moderation that errs on the side of being offensive unless the situation absolutely calls for moderation, but this seems like a jump even to me. Dude didn't even mention LGBT stuff, just a racial slur and the word retard. The latter seems a little steep considering people could use it to talk shit at generic isekai protagonists without offending most people, but keeping the big N out of websites that are meant to appeal to a wide audience (like literally anyone who wants to read manga online) is pretty standard.

If you're mad that he's pro-safe space and anti-4chan, then as someone who spends all day rotting in the prison that website has become post-Hiroyuki, let me tell you that no website that doesn't also embrace anonymous posting and self-enforce its culture should ever try to mimic their moderation in any way. Sure, if I wanna shitpost and chat with a bunch of other nerds about the latest anime season, I'll go to 4chan, but they don't have anything to offer except the discussion, so you know what to expect and know it's going to be offensive going in. Mangadex isn't about being an anonymous discussion board where the only notable rule is to not do anything illegal, Mangadex is about reading manga while respecting the wishes of scanlators, and so on, and so forth, so any discussion happens on-site should try to comply with rules intended to please as many people who read manga as possible, be they male, female, furry, bdsm fetishist, SJW, or an attack helicopter.

@Zephyrus It's no biggie, like I said, I don't think there's any need for moderation of moderators at all from what I've seen out of the staff so far. Just throwing thoughts out there so we have it in mind in case you ever get to the point where you need 50 mods or something.

 

[totallynotmike]

So, are cuss/swear words ok to use, if they are used toward the manga you are reading, and it's characters??

That depends, on....something.

hate speech would be moderated.

Oh cool, Zeph taking advantage of undefined gray area once again.

 

[Kierlak]

@Anonyan Look at his second post in this thread.

I humbly volunteer to moderate comments too, if it proves necessary. There's nothing I'd want more than for them to stop being toxic cesspools of chan behavior and actually not push away women or LBGT readers from discussing because it's a website about manga so "it should be expected that the readers are awful"

The specific mentioning of LGBT, along with volunteering for mod powers, is telling. Anyone that volunteers for forum moderation should automatically raise a red flag. There are a few that might be doing it for proper reasons, but most are seeking a position of authority from which to enforce an agenda.

 

[Anonyan]

@Kierlak
Oh, yeah, huh. I skimmed that one somehow. Yeah, I see where you're coming from, anyone who volunteers to moderate with an agenda that isn't "help the mods enforce the rules for the sake of the readers" is bad news, whether that agenda is removing all toxicity or removing all SJWs.
But Zeph already said they won't be taking more mods so calling people out like that is uncalled for anyway, so let's leave it at this.

 

[OniBarubary]

I don't really see how wanting to moderate so that everyone, even LGBT people, can post without having to constantly hear slurs or being insulted is that crazy of an idea.

What is the agenda in "make sure everyone has a good time posting"?

We literally have manga on this website that deal with homosexuality or trans issues, hitting sensitive topics, and are unable to be talked about in any decent degree because people trip over themselves to "inject their politics" into it, which I know you guys hate. Maybe LGBT people just want to be able to read their manga too and not have to listen to other people's politics.

Like what is so amazing that you'd be saying in a discussion on these topics that you'd worry about getting shut down or banned for it unfairly? Like be specific, what do you want to say that you would fear to say if a mod took shit like that seriously?

 

[Moridin101]

OniBarubary is exactly the type of person that must absolutely be kept out of any moderator role. It's obvious that any push back at all regarding anything trans or gay would be one sidedly shut down, rules and fairness be damned.

Oh good, I'm not the only one to notice that.

 

[Bainhardt]

This is kind of a step in the right direction (at least I don't think it's quite a step in any wrong directions), but there isn't a lot of information here explaining what reporting comments actually achieves.
Suppose I find a comment - be it on a forum post or on a manga's comment section - that clearly breaks the rules, and I report it. What can I expect to see happen?

If the comment is merely deleted, then the offending user would just have to go comment again, and they learn basically nothing from the offense. They can also still comment anywhere, any time they wish; it's possible there are users out there making dozens of awful comments a day.

If the user is banned temporarily, then this also does nothing to prevent them from continuing the same behavior after they are allowed to comment once again, other than the threat of further punishment. And would bans involve expunging of the offending comments? Or of all comments made by the user? At what stages of punishment would any kind of action like this be permitted, if ever?

And if they are to be banned permanently (I would hope only after some pretty grievous offenses), then they can never cause problems again, but they could very probably just make new accounts, as mentioned by @Nick86. Do you have any plans in place for what will be done with repeat offenders or users who are frequently butting heads with others? Do you have any ideas as to how you will encourage reported users to improve their behavior?

I'm sorry to nag on too many points at the same time, because I understand this is a broad and difficult subject, but this is just what crosses my mind when I read this post. You have titled it "Goals of Forum and Comment Moderation," but I didn't see many goals outlined.

 

[Dysisa]

I'm glad this is happening, and Zephyrus seems like a pretty levelheaded person so I have faith this'll turn out better.

Question though! A lot of series on here have copious amounts of spoilers being posted outside of the chapter specific forums, and without spoiler tags, which is something that has always bothered me. I know it's against the rules (there's even a big disclaimer about it whenever you comment, so I don't know how people keep making this mistake) but I want to know; is this something I can/should start to report?

 

[Thoraxe41]

Zephyrus is a poo poop head. 😋

 

[Kierlak]

Like what is so amazing that you'd be saying in a discussion on these topics that you'd worry about getting shut down or banned for it unfairly?

Anything that goes against the LGBT party line. Even the mildest criticism gets labeled as hate speech or bigotry, or some other handy buzzword. Moderators involved in LGBT identity politics have a painfully consistent track record of seeking out those positions and then abusing them so that they can silence any opposition on that platform.

 

[rhino36]

@onibarubary
Thing is that some oh so virtuous and humble people get their panties in a bunch so easily that it's practically impossible to post on forums if your opinion doesn't exactly match the moderation (IE. Resetera) and hubs where people can see what they want without having the banhammer swinging over their head are getting scarce.

 

[kenx]

I think what they do in 4chan would be a good measure for the forums.
If it's a minor violation, a personal warning.
If it's a somewhat grave violation, some kind of sign in the comment that says that "this comment is not okay" (and, dunno, maybe mute the user for a while).
If it's truly grave, a ban and somewhat like

(THIS USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Spoiler: [The post in question]

Of course, all of the previous implies that moderation is fair, which here, from what I've seen in ZA DEX, it's better than most sites.

 

[ninjadork]

@Zephyrus I dislike hypotheticals as much as you, but some of the things you've said in this thread are of great concern to me;

Are Mangadex staff going to place elevation of certain groups of people as a higher priority than ensuring that this is a community where everyone can contribute? Or to put it another way, is the principle of "it is acceptable to attack the argument, not the person" going to be bound in steel and protected against the whims of the inevitable intermittent mobs/provocateurs trying to push boundaries, stretch definitions, and silence people for personal convenience?

If somebody is banned, is there going to be an appeal process that consists of something more than the complete bloody farce that is 4chan's "toss it over to the same mod who banned x in the first place"? Is shadowbanning going to be a thing in the near future?

I wholeheartedly approve of the idea of a forum and comments section where productive conversations are held. I really don't want to watch this site devolve into empty-headed echo chamber #eleventy-fifty-opal because people let their egos take the wheel for the whole observation/flagging/moderation process. I'm starving for good conversation.

 

[kenx]

@ninjadork

shadowbanning

 

[arcsalvo]

Sounds good. Comments can get pretty toxic pretty fast without rules and moderation. Heck, I'd go a little further and slap warnings on comments that are excessively rude even if they "technically" attack an argument rather than a poster, because imo, it's a fine line between the two, and tone conveys more of what you mean than the content of what you say in my experience.

So long as someone can still read manga, not being able to comment's not such a huge deal, imo.

 

[Leftism_Is_A_Disease]

Hey guys whats going on

 

[dankdevice]

if your immediate reaction to this isn't "oh good hopefully there's gonna be less assholes in the comment section" you might be the reason we now have a report button

 

[alacaelum]

I wanted to know if you guys have plans to put some type of "like" system for the comments, and i am really grateful for all your work in keeping this site, you are really keeping Batoto spirit alive in creating such amazing space for interaction.