Why does it matter if the comments in a manga are on topic? Most of the comments are off topic or consist of the phrasing "Thanks for the scans." or something else of that nature. Even if their is no scanlators comment page, someone is going to be offended by something in the manga and then go on a long rant in the comments, regardless of whatever is said or not said by the scanlators. Why do you want to create more work for yourself by making all the comments in the manga apolitical?
Happy Holidays: Server Upgrades and Rule Updates
- Thread starter Plykiya
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@void216, people got really pissed off about Koolio putting a page about stuff like pro-immigration, racism and other left political talk that I can understand their reaction considering how social media and hobbies been overrun by those people, they arent keen on the same happening on their hobby.
This caused the chapters were that happen to have comments that were pretty much complaining about it in far less polite ways, I know Rapeman ruffled some feathers as you can see by some people trying to blame this on him but I never seen such a storm about a credit page since years ago back in the days of "we hate aggregators and will put watermarks everywhere reeee" when a group had the innovative idea of putting on the chapter release at random pages from hentai series to "troll" the aggregators and that didnt go well with the people that downloaded it from their IRC channel and suddenly weird ass hentai in the middle of their series (lets say they werent happy about surprise guro). Rapeman never got anywhere near this amount of attention.
The problem is we have people that are putting bait on their credit pages to get people to complain on the comment section and this is why I am more in favor of letting this go, eventually people stop taking the bait and leave as most translators arent :trollface: so the problem will eventually go away on its own, after all gg with its meme troll subs was more or less ignored by people that wanted to watch the series and that was just meme subs, if people have a problem with a specific group ... they block then, not ask MD to block groups because they dont like then since thats a slippery slope.
This caused the chapters were that happen to have comments that were pretty much complaining about it in far less polite ways, I know Rapeman ruffled some feathers as you can see by some people trying to blame this on him but I never seen such a storm about a credit page since years ago back in the days of "we hate aggregators and will put watermarks everywhere reeee" when a group had the innovative idea of putting on the chapter release at random pages from hentai series to "troll" the aggregators and that didnt go well with the people that downloaded it from their IRC channel and suddenly weird ass hentai in the middle of their series (lets say they werent happy about surprise guro). Rapeman never got anywhere near this amount of attention.
The problem is we have people that are putting bait on their credit pages to get people to complain on the comment section and this is why I am more in favor of letting this go, eventually people stop taking the bait and leave as most translators arent :trollface: so the problem will eventually go away on its own, after all gg with its meme troll subs was more or less ignored by people that wanted to watch the series and that was just meme subs, if people have a problem with a specific group ... they block then, not ask MD to block groups because they dont like then since thats a slippery slope.
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@shii - And i repeat, why you care if you do not follow that dude and his works? It doesn't affect you, advocating censorship even if you don't follow him mean you are limiting someone else freedom.
The chapter comment sections, if someone is concerned about OT, is already filled with OT comments, but if someone speak about jokes or stupid memes is ok, if someone dare to use political satire or social issues then immediately is OT an should be removed because hurt some sensibilities. Double standards and hypocrisy at it's finest.
The chapter comment sections, if someone is concerned about OT, is already filled with OT comments, but if someone speak about jokes or stupid memes is ok, if someone dare to use political satire or social issues then immediately is OT an should be removed because hurt some sensibilities. Double standards and hypocrisy at it's finest.
Fed-Kun's army
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What I'm gathering from Exile's post is that the site and medium of manga and anime has HORRIFIC racism, nazism, and assorted alt-right trash infestation problem. Seriously, did Koolios anti-racism stuff piss people off THAT MUCH compared to Rapeman's obvious and open as fuck racism that he wears like a "badge of honor" on his very profile page?
Dex-chan lover
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@Exile That's all assuming new people aren't joining the community all the time with no history in regards to troll credit pages. Rapeman has been translating for years now with these same types of credit pages solely because he likes the reaction he gets from them. He's said so himself on reddit.
ggsubs is still doing subs btw. They were never really a notorious troll sub team like many thought. They did it, like, twice. They've often got some of the best subs of any group.
ggsubs is still doing subs btw. They were never really a notorious troll sub team like many thought. They did it, like, twice. They've often got some of the best subs of any group.
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@shii First you impose Rapeman to put his racist garbage on Twitter/Reddit, that itself is strong indication you don't even know what are you talking about. "injecting bigoted opinions", "for the sake of drumming up controversy", you like using words you're familliar with but their meaning - not so much. Not only your opinions are void of any substance and valid arguments but also full of emotional load and authoritarian attitude, unfit for adult discussion we're having here.
While advocating for more censorship, remember, you're not forced to read any manga, nor it's your "god given" right to do so. And if you're not accustomed to spicy memes, please, try "cat eating cheeseburger" ones first, much more approachable for first timers.
While advocating for more censorship, remember, you're not forced to read any manga, nor it's your "god given" right to do so. And if you're not accustomed to spicy memes, please, try "cat eating cheeseburger" ones first, much more approachable for first timers.
@BestBoy, I still think this is mostly a isolated case that doesnt warrant creating a specific credits page policy, also I really do not want a repeat of Batoto that blacklisted several series because of their content (even if it was because they werent "advertiser friendly") since some subjects on series will bring up more comments about certain things, if it have say slavery then you can bet there are people that have the need to point out how awful slavery is (even if this usually doesnt end up with 100+ pages of comments about it).
Also gg been more or less dead, last thing they did was Macross Delta ... well last thing they did was Code Geass movies to be more exact, CR simulcast kinda killed fansubbing with Macross Delta simply being "Harmony Gold"en problematic, as I said I do think its not going to became a issue with suddenly :trollface: releases, if they do then yes ... rules about releases have to be expanded but I dont think its the case yet.
Also gg been more or less dead, last thing they did was Macross Delta ... well last thing they did was Code Geass movies to be more exact, CR simulcast kinda killed fansubbing with Macross Delta simply being "Harmony Gold"en problematic, as I said I do think its not going to became a issue with suddenly :trollface: releases, if they do then yes ... rules about releases have to be expanded but I dont think its the case yet.
For all the people doom-and-glooming about this rule change, I think it's kind of been lost that there's exactly two (2!) scanlators that they've been able to cite to whom this rule even remotely applies to. (The Facepalm rant is a bit more arguable since it was at least on the topic of scanlation and how it related to why they were working on that particular series, IIRC.) For the vast, vast majority of groups on this site the rule is a complete non-issue because it's not something they were likely to do in the first place. And of those two, only one is a long-time offender who pretty openly does it just to be That Asshole. So if it seems like an attack directed specifically at him, it's because he's been trying really hard to earn it.
The changed rule is not in any way 'vague'. It has a very narrow focus that only applies to a rare set of circumstances that have been shown to cause completely unnecessary problems. If anything the mods have built in a number of significant restrictions into how they can use this rule, which is pretty damn far from the kind of unfettered tyranny some people would seem to like to portray it as.
If the people running this site wanted to be tyrants, they've got Rule 5.3 sitting right there in their toolbox. This rule change simply defines a part of the scope of what 'Don't Make the Staff's Job Harder' means and closes a loophole in the previous reading of the rules that certain people have been exploiting.
The changed rule is not in any way 'vague'. It has a very narrow focus that only applies to a rare set of circumstances that have been shown to cause completely unnecessary problems. If anything the mods have built in a number of significant restrictions into how they can use this rule, which is pretty damn far from the kind of unfettered tyranny some people would seem to like to portray it as.
If the people running this site wanted to be tyrants, they've got Rule 5.3 sitting right there in their toolbox. This rule change simply defines a part of the scope of what 'Don't Make the Staff's Job Harder' means and closes a loophole in the previous reading of the rules that certain people have been exploiting.
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@doomrider7 Actual leftist here, the difference between the two groups is that while Rapeman readily admits that his main focus is "meme propagation" (as stated on /a/ when he said he's quitting), he saves that for the credit page. He translates things properly, and doesn't insert his memes into the main work. For all of his obnoxious memes, he does respect the author to do that.
Koolio n' Pals, on the other hand, will replace things that weren't memes in the original work with memes, and do so constantly. The jokes normally reserved for credit pages become the main text. This is bad enough, but to compound the problem is their mission statement and implementation. While Rapeman isn't trying to proselyte but shock and offend people, Koolio n' Pals state on their group page:
Koolio n' Pals, on the other hand, will replace things that weren't memes in the original work with memes, and do so constantly. The jokes normally reserved for credit pages become the main text. This is bad enough, but to compound the problem is their mission statement and implementation. While Rapeman isn't trying to proselyte but shock and offend people, Koolio n' Pals state on their group page:
They state they are trying to actively proselytize readers yet the first time they even added "credit pages" was as a means of shaming people over their opinions on immigration, from an argument on discord, when immigration plays little-to-no role in the series as of the currently translated chapters, with the next chapter having MLK's Letter from a Birmingham Jail and after that a portion of his COINTELPRO file, all used as either a means of shaming or claiming persecution, and anything at all about labor, worker's rights, capitalism, or anything else that would be relevant to the series is ignored. Rapeman isn't trying to convert people, Koolio n' Pals (supposedly) are.
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@Archet
I saw one today lol. Who knows how many have been removed quietly.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/775305/27
I don't think this should be removed, but it totally breaks the rules the way they are written. Calling readers, who have a different opinion, incels is absolutely an agenda and completely unnecessary drama. I guess it's up to the mods to pick and choose what's good and what's bad though.
I saw one today lol. Who knows how many have been removed quietly.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/775305/27
I don't think this should be removed, but it totally breaks the rules the way they are written. Calling readers, who have a different opinion, incels is absolutely an agenda and completely unnecessary drama. I guess it's up to the mods to pick and choose what's good and what's bad though.
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@Nick86
You don't have a freedom to spew racist garbage on any or all platforms, so put that argument back into into the grave and even if I don't follow his works or his nonsense, I'm still subjected to it when he decides to put it at an end of a manga and I end up reading it. Now like I said earlier, if Rapeman or the rest of you want to have those garbage discussions take it elsewhere to a place that allows it, don't do it in a comment section of manga that has no relation to the discussion.
@usagiaddict
You not even worth conversing with if all you can do is make insults towards another party instead of focus on the conversation, so consider this my only reply to your childish goading remarks. Try and actually be an adult.
You don't have a freedom to spew racist garbage on any or all platforms, so put that argument back into into the grave and even if I don't follow his works or his nonsense, I'm still subjected to it when he decides to put it at an end of a manga and I end up reading it. Now like I said earlier, if Rapeman or the rest of you want to have those garbage discussions take it elsewhere to a place that allows it, don't do it in a comment section of manga that has no relation to the discussion.
@usagiaddict
You not even worth conversing with if all you can do is make insults towards another party instead of focus on the conversation, so consider this my only reply to your childish goading remarks. Try and actually be an adult.
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@shii - How convenient to call racist what you do not like to justify censorship, Rapeman just point out some truths that only who live in certain places and is interested in political local wellfare can understand very well.
He add these pages at the bottom of the chapter, you can avoid to read these pages and stop when the chapter end if you really want, nobody is forcing his moral into your experience, there are no excuses otherwise is very selfish to ask for censorship because you personally don't like it and want a clean version, who the hell are you to decide this and what i have to read?
I can reply the same thing, you can also go elsewhere to read manga, i'm a donor here because i believe in this project, because i know who admins are from their past works (Doki), so you don't have the rights to tell me what to do and where, not you should ask admis to limit the freedom of scanlators because you have personal grudges against someone. Filters and moderation need just to be upgraded in proportion with the growing of readers, apart this there is nothing more to change.
He add these pages at the bottom of the chapter, you can avoid to read these pages and stop when the chapter end if you really want, nobody is forcing his moral into your experience, there are no excuses otherwise is very selfish to ask for censorship because you personally don't like it and want a clean version, who the hell are you to decide this and what i have to read?
I can reply the same thing, you can also go elsewhere to read manga, i'm a donor here because i believe in this project, because i know who admins are from their past works (Doki), so you don't have the rights to tell me what to do and where, not you should ask admis to limit the freedom of scanlators because you have personal grudges against someone. Filters and moderation need just to be upgraded in proportion with the growing of readers, apart this there is nothing more to change.
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@Rygdar
The term incel is political demagoguery at least in America. Republican traditionalists are called incels on the internet as an ad hominem argument, it's basically saying that they think the way they do because they can't get sex. Just like miscegenationist was used to attack Republican abolitionists like Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. It sounds absurd, but you have to imagine what it was like back then too. The people throwing out epithets never thought they'd end up in history books as demagogues.
The term incel is political demagoguery at least in America. Republican traditionalists are called incels on the internet as an ad hominem argument, it's basically saying that they think the way they do because they can't get sex. Just like miscegenationist was used to attack Republican abolitionists like Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. It sounds absurd, but you have to imagine what it was like back then too. The people throwing out epithets never thought they'd end up in history books as demagogues.
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"However, there's been an increasing trend of groups using the extra pages they insert into a chapter to circumvent the conduct rules we normally apply to the forums and our comments section, as well as adding content that completely derails the discussion of the manga into something entirely unrelated. When the content is political in nature, the comments tend to become offensive, inflammatory and an excessive amount of moderation work is generated for our already small team of mods."
It's not useful to start nitpicking about the minutiae of how the rule is written. This is scenario in which it's applied. No inflammatory conduct requiring excessive moderation work seem to have been caused to my knowledge.
It doesn't particularly matter if you can somehow twist some random extra page comment into having a possible political slant, like "see! this technically breaks the exact letter of the rule, obviously you should delete it".
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Both rules sound fair to me. Reading through the comments in this thread made me realize I'd never be able to be a mod myself. Your work is appreciated. I hope rule 3.2.7 makes life easier for all of you in the moderation team. If it causes some scanlation groups to leave that still sounds like the lesser evil to my ears.
Cheers =)
Cheers =)
@Swain123
...I think you might be skewing your reading of that page. Like, a lot.
'Incels' are an actual group. The term, 'involuntarily celibate', is one that they coined for themselves based on their self-perceived inability to find a sexual partner. The type of person who has historically sorted themselves into this group does also tend to lean towards radically conservative political views, which has then obviously lead to the cross-association of radical conservatism and being terrible at relationships in people's minds, but it does not then follow that every use of the term is explicitly a direct attack on radical conservatives. The original use is still valid, and probably more common.
In this case it seems like a particularly hard stretch to assign that kind of reading to it given the context of the manga that it's being used in, where a man who has had poor luck in relationships has an idealized partner effectively dropped into his lap. That's the dream situation for a guy that can't get laid. As such it's very easy to make jokes about this kind of manga and/or an anime based on it being incel-bait... which is clearly what this is. Furthermore, the fact that it is in reference to the series getting an anime adaption separates it from the kind of out-of-context shit-stirring that's been cited as grounds for removal. The group isn't using this as a platform to push an agenda. They're simply making a crass joke about the series they're translating.
...I think you might be skewing your reading of that page. Like, a lot.
'Incels' are an actual group. The term, 'involuntarily celibate', is one that they coined for themselves based on their self-perceived inability to find a sexual partner. The type of person who has historically sorted themselves into this group does also tend to lean towards radically conservative political views, which has then obviously lead to the cross-association of radical conservatism and being terrible at relationships in people's minds, but it does not then follow that every use of the term is explicitly a direct attack on radical conservatives. The original use is still valid, and probably more common.
In this case it seems like a particularly hard stretch to assign that kind of reading to it given the context of the manga that it's being used in, where a man who has had poor luck in relationships has an idealized partner effectively dropped into his lap. That's the dream situation for a guy that can't get laid. As such it's very easy to make jokes about this kind of manga and/or an anime based on it being incel-bait... which is clearly what this is. Furthermore, the fact that it is in reference to the series getting an anime adaption separates it from the kind of out-of-context shit-stirring that's been cited as grounds for removal. The group isn't using this as a platform to push an agenda. They're simply making a crass joke about the series they're translating.
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So if we exclude real world current events, are joke pages making fun of things or ideas in the chapter also not okay?
But then I guess also, someone can always come in and call it political for being a discussion of the chapter content not relating to translations...
But then I guess also, someone can always come in and call it political for being a discussion of the chapter content not relating to translations...
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@Nick86
This will be my last reply towards you since you're just avoiding the root of the problem which is people injecting their controversial political views into non-political manga.
First, I don't have a grudge against Rapeman. If you read my comments at all, you would read me saying that I came across him one time only and that was on a Himenospia where he had a TL note at the end talking about how black people were violent and cited FBI stats and black people having low IQ, which are all old racist talking points which has been debunked and can be explained when you look at poverty and system discrimination and oppression within the black community from when they were slaves and after being freed from slavery, which is the truth of the matter not the garbage that Rapeman spew.
Second, you can only avoid Rapeman's garbage when you don't know about it or him which wasn't the case for me and even if I did avoid it and just wanted to comment about the recent Himenospia I would have to do it over people arguing about the racist crap that Rapeman put at the end of his TL note which makes for a unfun experience when my comment get lost within the shitstorm and comments are soon locked after due to Mods not wanting to keep coming back to clean up the comment section. So I don't see how you think a translator should be able to muck up manga's comments section about things unrelated to the manga.
Third, you being a donor means very little in this discussion. If MD wants people to continue funding, do you think they want their manga site turned into a cesspool of political bickering? Fuck no. This is a place to enjoy manga and to discuss manga, which is why I assume you believed in the project and decided to donate to it right? This isn't a place for losers like Rapeman or any others to spew there political ideology whether it's Liberal or Conservative and ruin manga's comments section by igniting arguments. If you can't agree with this part of my comment towards you, then you should definitely find a new place to read your manga at so others like me who don't care for stupid political dribble can read and discuss manga in peace without having to waddle through political shit waters.
All I have to say.
This will be my last reply towards you since you're just avoiding the root of the problem which is people injecting their controversial political views into non-political manga.
First, I don't have a grudge against Rapeman. If you read my comments at all, you would read me saying that I came across him one time only and that was on a Himenospia where he had a TL note at the end talking about how black people were violent and cited FBI stats and black people having low IQ, which are all old racist talking points which has been debunked and can be explained when you look at poverty and system discrimination and oppression within the black community from when they were slaves and after being freed from slavery, which is the truth of the matter not the garbage that Rapeman spew.
Second, you can only avoid Rapeman's garbage when you don't know about it or him which wasn't the case for me and even if I did avoid it and just wanted to comment about the recent Himenospia I would have to do it over people arguing about the racist crap that Rapeman put at the end of his TL note which makes for a unfun experience when my comment get lost within the shitstorm and comments are soon locked after due to Mods not wanting to keep coming back to clean up the comment section. So I don't see how you think a translator should be able to muck up manga's comments section about things unrelated to the manga.
Third, you being a donor means very little in this discussion. If MD wants people to continue funding, do you think they want their manga site turned into a cesspool of political bickering? Fuck no. This is a place to enjoy manga and to discuss manga, which is why I assume you believed in the project and decided to donate to it right? This isn't a place for losers like Rapeman or any others to spew there political ideology whether it's Liberal or Conservative and ruin manga's comments section by igniting arguments. If you can't agree with this part of my comment towards you, then you should definitely find a new place to read your manga at so others like me who don't care for stupid political dribble can read and discuss manga in peace without having to waddle through political shit waters.
All I have to say.
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