Henjo - Hen na Joshi Kousei Amaguri Senko
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How is this seinen if the main char is a girl and its reverse harem? ffs....
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@konzolmester: Because the idea of seinen is to attract young male readers, which is why we keep seeing Senko and Ruka (and the other girls) in a lot of ecchi situations at the male's expense. Plus where are you seeing a reverse harem. It's only ever been one guy and the friend is more like the straight man in a tsukkomi with two girls that want HIM.
The otaku made it clear he's not romantically interested in her, just worships her in his own odd way and the delinquent is a tsundere, sure, but he never had a chance from day 1 and everybody knows it, even Senko. Can't really call it a harem of any kind if there's no competitor.
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@TwilightFaze Heres the deal:
That's the main problem with todays publishing. It want's popularity and sales so bad it's using popular genres when it has nothing to do with it. See it every day...
If a story's main lead is a girl and has romance tag in it then its either shoujo, josei, or neutral. But just because of fanservice it does not make it seinen or shounen.
Take a look at Claymore, nothing but grown women in it, but the setting and story is completely set up in a way that it interests your avarage guy.
btw Claymore as mature, bloody and horrific the storyline is it's a clear seinen but shounen is more popular so the publishers went with that. See where I'm getting at?
Sure they can target it to whomever they want but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it's a duck! or a girl posing in a mirror.
Jokes aside I feel the publishers are the worst for using false pretense on us males. So what if I don't care for the fanservice? Who's it targeting then? There you have it. It's not seinen! period!
That's the main problem with todays publishing. It want's popularity and sales so bad it's using popular genres when it has nothing to do with it. See it every day...
If a story's main lead is a girl and has romance tag in it then its either shoujo, josei, or neutral. But just because of fanservice it does not make it seinen or shounen.
Take a look at Claymore, nothing but grown women in it, but the setting and story is completely set up in a way that it interests your avarage guy.
btw Claymore as mature, bloody and horrific the storyline is it's a clear seinen but shounen is more popular so the publishers went with that. See where I'm getting at?
Sure they can target it to whomever they want but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it's a duck! or a girl posing in a mirror.
Jokes aside I feel the publishers are the worst for using false pretense on us males. So what if I don't care for the fanservice? Who's it targeting then? There you have it. It's not seinen! period!
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@konzolmester I think you're misunderstanding something. Shounen/Seinen is not a genre; it's the demographic target of the magazine the manga serialized at. Like Claymore's case, since it's serialized in a shounen magazine, hence it's a Shounen manga. Death Note is quite dark which many people might think that it's a Seinen, but since it's serialized in a shounen magazine, that means Death Note is a Shounen manga. It's not like the publisher is "using" the genre, but more like the magazine is trying to have some diversities in their line-up to reach wider demographic market.
Anyway, Henjo is serialized in Young Animal, which is a Seinen magazine, hence Henjo is a Seinen whether you like it or not.
Anyway, Henjo is serialized in Young Animal, which is a Seinen magazine, hence Henjo is a Seinen whether you like it or not.
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@fernaldi01 Basicaly your just saying if the studio says it's seinen the it's seinen. ..... no logic what so ever.
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@konzolmester
Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen, Josei are all marketing demographics so yeah what magazine it's published in decides what it is.
Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen, Josei are all marketing demographics so yeah what magazine it's published in decides what it is.
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@konzolmester Let me separate your reply into 2 parts:
a. "Basicaly your just saying if the studio says it's seinen the it's seinen". It's pretty much like that, but what "studio" are you talking about? If you're talking about anime studio, then this is a misunderstanding. Anime studio have no say whatsoever whether the anime they produced is a Shounen/Seinen/Shoujo/Josei. It's all based on the source material; if it's adapted from a manga serialized in Shounen magazine, then it's a Shounen anime. If it's from Seinen magazine, then it's a Seinen anime. If it's an original anime or based on Light Novels, you can hardly categorize it with Shounen/Seinen/Shoujo/Josei. If you're looking for some prove, you can go to MAL and check the "genre" (though I disagree with this, I prefer Mangadex's "Demographic") of the anime adapted from a manga, adapted from LN, original anime, etc and see the differences.
b. "no logic what so ever". Indeed, it's not our job to determine its demographic, no need to use our logic. Here's a good read regarding this topic: What Makes A Manga Shonen Or Shoujo?
a. "Basicaly your just saying if the studio says it's seinen the it's seinen". It's pretty much like that, but what "studio" are you talking about? If you're talking about anime studio, then this is a misunderstanding. Anime studio have no say whatsoever whether the anime they produced is a Shounen/Seinen/Shoujo/Josei. It's all based on the source material; if it's adapted from a manga serialized in Shounen magazine, then it's a Shounen anime. If it's from Seinen magazine, then it's a Seinen anime. If it's an original anime or based on Light Novels, you can hardly categorize it with Shounen/Seinen/Shoujo/Josei. If you're looking for some prove, you can go to MAL and check the "genre" (though I disagree with this, I prefer Mangadex's "Demographic") of the anime adapted from a manga, adapted from LN, original anime, etc and see the differences.
b. "no logic what so ever". Indeed, it's not our job to determine its demographic, no need to use our logic. Here's a good read regarding this topic: What Makes A Manga Shonen Or Shoujo?
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@fernaldi01 I meant publisher my bad. Anywho....
The read you just offered me, I'll quote from it but first of all, you have to understand and think like a japanese salesman.
Everything revolves around making money,success,popularity! And the amount of people dying in japan cause of overwork only confirms my and many others opinion on this.
"male fans are less likely to pick up shoujo and josei works, when they could be something they'd enjoy."
enjoy = we want this to be popular among males too even if its for girls.
This just means that the publishers with the allowance of the author/mangaka they can put a shounen or seinen tag on any kind of manga just because its more popular that way.
For the sake of popularity and income. Because they dont want to loose money on it.
It's as simple as that. And I think this is purely pathetic, insincere to the consumers and a very cunning way to publish a dog when its a cat from every angle.
And in the end they only caused damage with this, because people realising this will now ignore the tags and only look for the male main character in the description.
You people might not have realised this but the authors gotten a lot of complaints lately regarding incorrect genre labeling.
And the author saying "I don't give a damn" only means I only care for money! Seen it a few times on manga pages written by the author. Quite disturbing.
I'm done here explaining but still, thanks for the reply.
The read you just offered me, I'll quote from it but first of all, you have to understand and think like a japanese salesman.
Everything revolves around making money,success,popularity! And the amount of people dying in japan cause of overwork only confirms my and many others opinion on this.
"male fans are less likely to pick up shoujo and josei works, when they could be something they'd enjoy."
enjoy = we want this to be popular among males too even if its for girls.
This just means that the publishers with the allowance of the author/mangaka they can put a shounen or seinen tag on any kind of manga just because its more popular that way.
For the sake of popularity and income. Because they dont want to loose money on it.
It's as simple as that. And I think this is purely pathetic, insincere to the consumers and a very cunning way to publish a dog when its a cat from every angle.
And in the end they only caused damage with this, because people realising this will now ignore the tags and only look for the male main character in the description.
You people might not have realised this but the authors gotten a lot of complaints lately regarding incorrect genre labeling.
And the author saying "I don't give a damn" only means I only care for money! Seen it a few times on manga pages written by the author. Quite disturbing.
I'm done here explaining but still, thanks for the reply.
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@konzolmester While I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment, I still think it's best for you to research this topic first, because I think you still have some kind of misunderstanding about this whole business regarding Demographic target. It's not like the authors are putting the Shounen or whatever demographic target tag into their works. Authors gave the rough drafts/proposals to magazine publisher -> the magazine higher-ups decide whether to serialize that work or not. And there's nothing wrong if, for example, a Shoujo magazine decided to serialize some kind of Shounen-ish manga, since you can't blame them for widening their market. And you have to remember, there's no rule whatsoever regarding this demographic target (I'm not talking about the obvious ones like nudity and the likes), so the magazine is free to do that.
You have to think like Japanese (or any country, really) salesman. If a Shoujo magazine has 10 series and it's ALL about bubbly cheesy cliche Shoujo romance, let's say 100 girls would purchase that magazine. But if that Shoujo magazine has 9 Shoujo-ish series and 1 Shounen-ish series, the 100 girls might still buy the magazine but skip the Shounen-ish story while some other boys could be getting interested to that magazine thanks to that particular Shounen-ish story. Can you see the point of widening their market?
In fact, I advise you to do just that. So you might be encountering a Shoujo-ish story in your beloved Seinen magazine and it's not to your preference. Just skip it. That story is simply not for you. But other people might be purchasing that magazine thanks to that specific Shoujo-ish story.
You have to think like Japanese (or any country, really) salesman. If a Shoujo magazine has 10 series and it's ALL about bubbly cheesy cliche Shoujo romance, let's say 100 girls would purchase that magazine. But if that Shoujo magazine has 9 Shoujo-ish series and 1 Shounen-ish series, the 100 girls might still buy the magazine but skip the Shounen-ish story while some other boys could be getting interested to that magazine thanks to that particular Shounen-ish story. Can you see the point of widening their market?
In fact, I advise you to do just that. So you might be encountering a Shoujo-ish story in your beloved Seinen magazine and it's not to your preference. Just skip it. That story is simply not for you. But other people might be purchasing that magazine thanks to that specific Shoujo-ish story.
Not quite correct. It's more like they're selling assorted biscuits targeted for male adults, but there's one biscuit that's not to your liking since it's too sweet. No one is forcing you to eat that particular sweet biscuit, right? Would you sue the biscuit factory eventhough they clearly sell ASSORTED biscuits? Is there a law that clearly stated that a sweet biscuit is forbidden to be included in assorted biscuits targeted for male adults?
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Thanks for the chapter.
Why are there essays below me.
Why are there essays below me.
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DAYN THIS CHAPTER IT'S A SPICY BOIIIIIII
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At first... I was just annoyed, being like "it's gonna be old in 5 chapters".
Still, my rule is to read something to the most recent point even if I don't like it that much (Except obvious exceptions when I can't bear it).
I'm happy I decided to stick with it. Even if you can say it has a ton of fillers without any real developement and characters I didn't gave microd!ck-sized f*ck, I still managed to really enjoy it.
I guess that's something you can read and get a good laugh out of. I kinda recommend.
Now I'm just sad that the artist put that manga on hold for the shared universe and spin-offs... But it is what it is.
Still, my rule is to read something to the most recent point even if I don't like it that much (Except obvious exceptions when I can't bear it).
I'm happy I decided to stick with it. Even if you can say it has a ton of fillers without any real developement and characters I didn't gave microd!ck-sized f*ck, I still managed to really enjoy it.
I guess that's something you can read and get a good laugh out of. I kinda recommend.
Now I'm just sad that the artist put that manga on hold for the shared universe and spin-offs... But it is what it is.
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sugita is kinda a pain in the ass lately, it's like now that that they are actualy going out sugita is there just to be the co*kblock
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like that it connects one other manga
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This feels like it should be nearing the end, but has been put on hiatus for a spin-off? =/
Rough...
@konzolmester
There isn't much romance, but there is a little. The main character is female. And it is one of the most blatantly Seinen series around.
Should serve as a perfect disproof of your erronous notions.
Who is or isn't the main character doesn't dictate the demographic for a manga (especially when they're not the viewpoint character). Genres may by biased for one demographic and against others, but those don't dictate it either.
Rather it is how the characters are designed and how their interactions are portrayed that are the giveaway for whether something is shounen, shoujo, seinen or josei.
For THIS story, the seinen tag is justified.
Shounen romance is overly simplistic, mostly based on the male adopting a protective role (often of girls indiscriminately)... but being a bumbling idiot most of the time, and the authority in the romance is in the hands of the girls.
Shoujo romance is likewise overly simplistic, mostly based on the female caring for men (again, often indiscriminately)... but being a "delicate flower" type character that all the tall, gangly men try to sexually dominate, so again they have the authority in the romance.
Seinen and Josei relationships are generally portrayed with a bit more realism, generally fewer false harems and contrived situations, but regardless of who is or isn't the "main character", the viewpoint character for seinen is usually male and the viewpoint character for josei is usually female... while the romance authority is in the hands of the female for seinen series and in the hands of the male for josei series. And as usual, the relationships mostly show progress when the authority dynamic temporarily reverses.
In case you hadn't noticed... for the interactions between Takamura and Senko in this series, Senko is effectively dominating. Takamura is the viewpoint character. Ergo this could only be Shounen or Seinen... and it lacks the obviously contrived nonsense and school-child idealism common to Shounen plots. Ergo this is Seinen.
If you want to see a blatant Josei marked as Seinen... Kusuriya no Hitorigoto would be the example I'd pick. That series couldn't possibly be more josei if it tried.
At least as far as romance is concerned, if you want to know the real demographic.... just look to see who is being romantically passive most of the time... Their prospective love-interests will have exaggerated personalities to draw appeal to themselves, but the one meant to be a viewpoint character will generally be (at least from a romantic perspective) generic and uninteresting by design as they're made that way for the reader to... well... substitute themselves into the role without conflict.
Rough...
@konzolmester
Go read Claymore.
There isn't much romance, but there is a little. The main character is female. And it is one of the most blatantly Seinen series around.
Should serve as a perfect disproof of your erronous notions.
Who is or isn't the main character doesn't dictate the demographic for a manga (especially when they're not the viewpoint character). Genres may by biased for one demographic and against others, but those don't dictate it either.
Rather it is how the characters are designed and how their interactions are portrayed that are the giveaway for whether something is shounen, shoujo, seinen or josei.
For THIS story, the seinen tag is justified.
Shounen romance is overly simplistic, mostly based on the male adopting a protective role (often of girls indiscriminately)... but being a bumbling idiot most of the time, and the authority in the romance is in the hands of the girls.
Shoujo romance is likewise overly simplistic, mostly based on the female caring for men (again, often indiscriminately)... but being a "delicate flower" type character that all the tall, gangly men try to sexually dominate, so again they have the authority in the romance.
Seinen and Josei relationships are generally portrayed with a bit more realism, generally fewer false harems and contrived situations, but regardless of who is or isn't the "main character", the viewpoint character for seinen is usually male and the viewpoint character for josei is usually female... while the romance authority is in the hands of the female for seinen series and in the hands of the male for josei series. And as usual, the relationships mostly show progress when the authority dynamic temporarily reverses.
In case you hadn't noticed... for the interactions between Takamura and Senko in this series, Senko is effectively dominating. Takamura is the viewpoint character. Ergo this could only be Shounen or Seinen... and it lacks the obviously contrived nonsense and school-child idealism common to Shounen plots. Ergo this is Seinen.
If you want to see a blatant Josei marked as Seinen... Kusuriya no Hitorigoto would be the example I'd pick. That series couldn't possibly be more josei if it tried.
At least as far as romance is concerned, if you want to know the real demographic.... just look to see who is being romantically passive most of the time... Their prospective love-interests will have exaggerated personalities to draw appeal to themselves, but the one meant to be a viewpoint character will generally be (at least from a romantic perspective) generic and uninteresting by design as they're made that way for the reader to... well... substitute themselves into the role without conflict.
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I understand perfectly. Heres How I see it.
btw even after 15 years when I first read it and watched the anime I still love it.
Never did, unless as mentioned before the author and publisher does the usual monkey business for popularity. let me elaborate.
In Witch Craft Works the MC guy is a pushover damsel in distress while the girl is the main overpowered heroine yet its demographic is seinen.
Or Mai-HiME, Prison School and so on.. has betamales and dominating girls in it yet its seinen and shounen.
Why? Becaise it has romance in it and the MC is a hetero guy with a 'rod", and hes mostly at the center of the story.
Only in the past 5 years after the japanese economy crisis (increasing overworked,underpayed and not appreciated eployees)
like a bit back when kyoani was burned down precisely because of that pressure is why the authors,publishers,studios are doing this hand in hand to keep making money every means necessary.
Why do you think studios only pick succesfull mainstream mangas and LN's to animate?
I dont want to derail this conversation but I could go on and one with the increased sex and gore (shock therapy)...ect...
All that just to keep an impression, no room for morales,any form of guidance to learn something like the older animes. There are exceptions of course but very few.
I understand many readers are bamboozled by the lgbt agenda, it is getting more frequent many people see it many don't...and the results in confusion and misguidance.
But in the end it's absolutely not our fault, and I very much appreciate your long and well intended explanation and others opinion on this matter as well.
But I stand ground, untill the new agenda pushes me down the cliff
Claymore has no romance tag, therefore it being shonen is justified. Tho if anything it's seinen but lets not get into that.
btw even after 15 years when I first read it and watched the anime I still love it.
The characters personality, whether the MC dominates or not does not shape the genre.
Never did, unless as mentioned before the author and publisher does the usual monkey business for popularity. let me elaborate.
In Witch Craft Works the MC guy is a pushover damsel in distress while the girl is the main overpowered heroine yet its demographic is seinen.
Or Mai-HiME, Prison School and so on.. has betamales and dominating girls in it yet its seinen and shounen.
Why? Becaise it has romance in it and the MC is a hetero guy with a 'rod", and hes mostly at the center of the story.
Only in the past 5 years after the japanese economy crisis (increasing overworked,underpayed and not appreciated eployees)
like a bit back when kyoani was burned down precisely because of that pressure is why the authors,publishers,studios are doing this hand in hand to keep making money every means necessary.
Why do you think studios only pick succesfull mainstream mangas and LN's to animate?
I dont want to derail this conversation but I could go on and one with the increased sex and gore (shock therapy)...ect...
All that just to keep an impression, no room for morales,any form of guidance to learn something like the older animes. There are exceptions of course but very few.
It's anything but simplistic. Sometimes they are but most of them that I read have so many twists its a bit hard to follow.
I understand many readers are bamboozled by the lgbt agenda, it is getting more frequent many people see it many don't...and the results in confusion and misguidance.
But in the end it's absolutely not our fault, and I very much appreciate your long and well intended explanation and others opinion on this matter as well.
But I stand ground, untill the new agenda pushes me down the cliff
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Haven't read this yet, but I noticed there's the Love Triangle tag in Manga Updates. What should I expect here?
