Hope You're Happy, Lemon - Ch. 19

[deathmailrock]

I am very aware that lesbian third wheel characters in "heterosexual" romance manga get a lot of hate, sometimes quite unfairly. But damn, this new girl is insufferable. Arrogant, dumb as bricks and jumps into conclusions. Like a female version of those boy characters who claim "you're causing the hot girl embarrassment by being with her"

It's not unfair hate. They are often put in solely as road blocks for the romance and exist solely to antagonize and the reason is "I'm gay so feel bad for me".... which is sloppy....

And it probably wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't so over used....

We get it, you're gay, it's hard when your crush doesn't see you that way...... but we didn't read the story for that...

 

[deathmailrock]

Go reread chapter, it 1 literally says that Lemon was his first and only girlfriend and that he has someone he likes who he wants to like him back.

Chapter 1 also explains why the cheating thing isn't being focused on and that's because Sunao is intentionally ignoring it because he doesn't want to look like he has baggage from a previous relationship.

The issue isn't HIM ignoring it.... it's the author ignoring it....

Let's look at the classic stories for example and see why they are legends. For Bleach, Ichigo lost his mom cause of his ghost powers, thus giving him a grim view of them and making him stoic. So while he isn't always bringing it up, it's still effecting him.

Naruto, an orphan with no friends and a lot of hate. While it is brought up a lot, even when it isn't, you still see signs of his loneliness and it's a part of his character.

Luffy, also had experience with Shanks. And even when it's not mentioned or flash backed, we are shown the influence of everything that happened in the 1st chapter....

It's one thing if he tries to ignore it himself... but having the closest person betray him like that and then being forced into such a weird situation should have impact on the character and his actions... it's an important plot point and yet it's treated as almost non-existent by the author himself...

Literally, making her instead just reject him cause she was moving or something would have been way better, because it'd work better, give him the issues he needs and wouldn't be as serious as to be needed to be seen properly in the series....

 

[himesaminako]

This is a fucking dumb character, and I hate this trope of "I'm their overprotective zealous fan!!!". Any other trope or plot device, please, just not this boring ass one. I've been really enjoying this manga so far but this arc is not it

 

[Cashini]

lol her friend so funny strange X'D mc just be patient with her

 

[Undorian]

It's not unfair hate. They are often put in solely as road blocks for the romance and exist solely to antagonize and the reason is "I'm gay so feel bad for me".... which is sloppy....

And it probably wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't so over used....

We get it, you're gay, it's hard when your crush doesn't see you that way...... but we didn't read the story for that...

I don’t think it’s been established that Raika actually is gay? She thinks “Lemon is the cutest girl in the world”, but I don’t think that means gay in this romcom logic. I kinda smell them trying to mold Raika into Suzuka’s girlfriend somewhere down the line as the beta couple, their “no, I can’t answer your question” interaction with each other 2 chapters ago in hindsight gives me those vibes. If that turns out to be the case, I would probably feel sorry for Suzuka.

 

[WL4949]

Well, technically, it WOULD be funny if done right.

Like, the person who is obviously bad doing the lecture.... but it only works when it works as a joke and we don't take things seriously...

It doesn't work when we are actually irritated by the character.....

It's basically the idea that a trope isn't funny because it exists but how it's used....

Which is the flaw of this series... it has every element needed to be great.... and they are done well.... but the execution in contexts with the full series is done in a bad way....

Also, as you mentioned, it's being used to actually block development, not because the situation called for the humor....

Aka, he's doing a good trope but writing it badly....

Prob would have been better if it was a single page with a huge text bubble that the reader could ignore and so did the character.

 

[vagligeiro]

I like to think that a lot of the comments here reflect the common sexism that occurs, and that the story in question is an attempt to make a story that would go well in a "shoujo" (romantic comedy) for a "shounen" universe (where it's more It is common to see men brushing each other to see who is stronger...).

In fact, I agree that the story has a lot of script flaws - the basis of the story should be the "body swap", but when the author revealed the swap for one of the secondary characters and the story took more traction in interactions and feelings among such, this demonstrated that the story itself was more about relationships; the "body swap" is just a comical part to draw attention to the story and give it some traction when needed.

Raika's entry tried to touch on the "body swap" issue a little - I honestly thought that the character was probably the one who told Lemon to lie to Sunao about "the three guys" when she was young. Raika has been in love with Lemon since she was young, and after listening to Sunao's conversation with Suzuka, she decided to try to tease Sunao again because she sees him as an obstacle to trying to get closer to Lemon.

And in fact, I also feel a certain confusion about who Sunao is in love with - whether it's Kogohara (who he had started trying around the time of the body swap) or Lemon (now that he's living the day-to-day life of same). But at the same time I have the feeling that the author is forgetting this detail - the day to day exchange of bodies.

I honestly think the story could be better if at least in the first chapters there were a little more details about each person (Sunao and Lemon) during the body swap. The details given end up being punctual, they help a little to understand but not as much as they could. We ended up playing guessing games to understand how they deal with everything.

Perhaps one of the author's flaws is not having gone deeper into "one day of Sunao as Lemon" (and one of "Lemon as Sunao"), to show more how a man would deal with a female body (and vice versa). The most that was done was the beauty contest arc, but the feeling is that it didn't have that much appeal, just Suzuka's confession (who fell in love with Lemon and was dumped right away, but by Sunao :v)

At least Sunao is like any reader of this series - and it's no wonder many people hate the series - as he reflects a lot of the thoughts and feelings of young men out there.

 

[ShadowStriker89]

My cringe detector blew up and nearly sent me to the hospital, geez that was dangerous, cringe levels these days are rising aren't they?

 

[Rafficks]

Time to add the gl tag 😋

Please at least then I can drop in peace

 

[deathmailrock]

I like to think that a lot of the comments here reflect the common sexism that occurs, and that the story in question is an attempt to make a story that would go well in a "shoujo" (romantic comedy) for a "shounen" universe (where it's more It is common to see men brushing each other to see who is stronger...).

In fact, I agree that the story has a lot of script flaws - the basis of the story should be the "body swap", but when the author revealed the swap for one of the secondary characters and the story took more traction in interactions and feelings among such, this demonstrated that the story itself was more about relationships; the "body swap" is just a comical part to draw attention to the story and give it some traction when needed.

Raika's entry tried to touch on the "body swap" issue a little - I honestly thought that the character was probably the one who told Lemon to lie to Sunao about "the three guys" when she was young. Raika has been in love with Lemon since she was young, and after listening to Sunao's conversation with Suzuka, she decided to try to tease Sunao again because she sees him as an obstacle to trying to get closer to Lemon.

And in fact, I also feel a certain confusion about who Sunao is in love with - whether it's Kogohara (who he had started trying around the time of the body swap) or Lemon (now that he's living the day-to-day life of same). But at the same time I have the feeling that the author is forgetting this detail - the day to day exchange of bodies.

I honestly think the story could be better if at least in the first chapters there were a little more details about each person (Sunao and Lemon) during the body swap. The details given end up being punctual, they help a little to understand but not as much as they could. We ended up playing guessing games to understand how they deal with everything.

Perhaps one of the author's flaws is not having gone deeper into "one day of Sunao as Lemon" (and one of "Lemon as Sunao"), to show more how a man would deal with a female body (and vice versa). The most that was done was the beauty contest arc, but the feeling is that it didn't have that much appeal, just Suzuka's confession (who fell in love with Lemon and was dumped right away, but by Sunao :v)

At least Sunao is like any reader of this series - and it's no wonder many people hate the series - as he reflects a lot of the thoughts and feelings of young men out there.

No, the issue is because the very premise just feels too dark and gets in the way.

For instance, he's an actual victim of his girlfriend and the closest person in his life and his childhood friend cheating on him (he doesn't know it's fake) and yet we get none of the trauma or pain he should have suffered. We are seeing no signs of it's existence...

So far, the story is just a basic romcom with body swap added.... but the starting premise isn't actually suited for a romcom....

Change the starting premise and things would be way better.

Yes, you are right, we should see more of the body swap and stuff....the day to day stuff would be valuable.... but we'd expect that coming into later chapters of what we would want to see....

See, so that stuff can wait...

But the very premise just feels to dark and hurtful to just be ignored....

I mean, if you skipped the first chapter and had a summary without the "cheating" thing, this would literally be less heavy and would be way more enjoyable...

Though I feel we would still have issues in the end for problems you mentioned.

That said, you are 100% wrong about this not being a typical shonen.... RomComs are a classic in shonen and this actually isn't very new or special minus the body swap element....

 

[vagligeiro]

(....)

I admit that I don't read that many RomComs out there.

And I read the first chapter, I don't think it's dark. I just think Lemon was "stupid" and that's it. And in the first chapter, this first one already had its first twists and turns, and apparently Sunao "coincidentally" had a nightmare remembering the separation. Other than that, most of the chapters were more about relationships and disagreements. The body swap was just a "detail" that could be used as a joker in some episodes (the beauty contest was an example). But like, remembering that in the second chapter they sat down and talked about "how to deal with the day-to-day life of swapping bodies", it kind of ruined some of the premise.

I like the story more because of the characters (Suzuka has completely won me over now), the design (Lemon is beautiful, Kogohara too), how much of an "ordinary guy" Sunao is, and the vain hope that they will fix this script. I thought that Raika's entry would change the development a little, but like, I only saw the chapters and identified with Suzuka "hiding" behind the backpack.

As it stands, the series is probably just waiting for cancellation. And look, I recently read "Handsome Must Die" (which apparently had similar script flaws) and "Service Wars" (which at least closed the script itself well, but also suffered from a script that was "choking"). The feeling I have about "Hope You're Happy" is that it will only last the equivalent of 2 volumes and that's ok.

 

[deathmailrock]

I admit that I don't read that many RomComs out there.

And I read the first chapter, I don't think it's dark. I just think Lemon was "stupid" and that's it. And in the first chapter, this first one already had its first twists and turns, and apparently Sunao "coincidentally" had a nightmare remembering the separation. Other than that, most of the chapters were more about relationships and disagreements. The body swap was just a "detail" that could be used as a joker in some episodes (the beauty contest was an example). But like, remembering that in the second chapter they sat down and talked about "how to deal with the day-to-day life of swapping bodies", it kind of ruined some of the premise.

I like the story more because of the characters (Suzuka has completely won me over now), the design (Lemon is beautiful, Kogohara too), how much of an "ordinary guy" Sunao is, and the vain hope that they will fix this script. I thought that Raika's entry would change the development a little, but like, I only saw the chapters and identified with Suzuka "hiding" behind the backpack.

As it stands, the series is probably just waiting for cancellation. And look, I recently read "Handsome Must Die" (which apparently had similar script flaws) and "Service Wars" (which at least closed the script itself well, but also suffered from a script that was "choking"). The feeling I have about "Hope You're Happy" is that it will only last the equivalent of 2 volumes and that's ok.

When I mean "dark", I mean from his perspective....

You write something like that, and we expect that to actually matter to the series....

Outside of that, this feels kinda standard.

Maybe you should read Nisekoi (note, it has a MacGuffin that isn't the point of the story), Horimiya, Ranma 1/2, Your Lie In April, Gamers, Komi Can't Communicate, and The Quintessential Quintuplets

 

[vagligeiro]

(...)

Regarding the list, only Komi and Ranma ended up reading it. Komi and Ranma, in my opinion, are very different from "Lemon" because each one has their own way of dealing with RomComs, and thinking about it now, I actually realized that Ranma has this "body swap" thing, but actually going to the issue of "transsexuality", and in this the author plays too much with it (in a time that allowed this). Komi plays more with personalities, so she moves away a bit from what "Hope You're Happy" deals with.

Komi I started following after the episode in which

Spoiler

the protagonist "kissed" Komi's father.

I found it so hilarious that I decided to follow the rest of the story. And I've been following more "waiting for the development of Komi and Tadano's relationship" actually.

Maybe "Lemon" (the story, of course) could have gone the way of "Ranma 1/2", maybe that's why there's a lot of hate on the story, as it doesn't play as much with body swapping as Ranma does. Not much with the personalities either, given that every young person in the story isn't exactly "exaggerated", while Sunao and Lemon are a bit of a "rollercoaster", as there are times when they sound "right" and there are times when they overdo it. For now, I'm still following it for the reasons mentioned above.

And thanks for the list, I actually don't follow many romantic comedies (Spy X Family counts?). At most, I'm following "Miss Nagatoro" (because I also caught the part where the protagonists developed their relationship) and that's it. If I can, maybe from the list I'll pick Gamers and Nisekoi as I've always heard good things about both.

 

[deathmailrock]

...

Also, I hope I'm not being rude, and don't mean to say this in a way to judge you, but try not to think a lot of problems are due to "sexism".

A lot of times, many problems can be more nuanced and issues....

For instance, in this chapter, we have a stalker that's basically brushed off for being a female and a MC that has to take it despite being the victim just cause he's a man.

And it's not even that we hate the trope itself, but feel that in this case, it was done badly....

It's not like we always mind some of these differences, because we know there are often good reasons for these differences.

So please try to understand that "difference" isn't always equal to "sexism".

For instance, one huge reason men are often wary of sexually promiscuous women is because we aren't the ones that get pregnant... aka, we can be tricked into raising someone else's kid...

And because women don't have to worry about that fear, they are often more willing to give men a pass for having more partners (though personally, usually, those relationships still fail from what I've personally noticed).