Horobi no Kuni no Seifukusha - Vol. 4 Ch. 19 - Kuran

[MangaDex]

 

[SunSun]

King James Version?

Catholica?

Christian alliance to subdue the Shaltheans?

How much is this is actually in the raw, and how much is from weird localization?

 

[AlphaFlow]

Ngl, this chapter was beyond cringe to read, and seemed very low effort work by the author...
Like you can't be bothered to make up religions, regions and what not of your own fantasy world? like really?
You just go for a carbon copy of irl stuff and just add a letter or two? Like seriously? You Open up with hawk riding and interesting ranching of them and other interesting creatures in the first chapters and then you hit us with this copy pasta, low effort, second hand embarrassment?
The world map is just our world map just with some areas stretched out, the religions are literally just our religions just with 2 extra letters, then you just copy paste the crusades, like you don't even put in effort into it to such a degree that you just call Britain Albion which is literally just how the Greeks used to call the place in around the 4th century, this went from quite interesting to low tier low effort drivel in literally handful of chapters, insane. No wonder the translators before dropped this, i would as well if i would come from such a strong start into this... Drivel.
I'm beyond disappointed in this, i don't even know why as i wasn't even that invested in this or why this is still in my "reading" tab as i DESPISE school arcs.

 

[asdfgh1111]

Ngl, this chapter was beyond cringe to read, and seemed very low effort work by the author...
Like you can't be bothered to make up religions, regions and what not of your own fantasy world? like really?
You just go for a carbon copy of irl stuff and just add a letter or two? Like seriously? You Open up with hawk riding and interesting ranching of them and other interesting creatures in the first chapters and then you hit us with this copy pasta, low effort, second hand embarrassment?
The world map is just our world map just with some areas stretched out, the religions are literally just our religions just with 2 extra letters, then you just copy paste the crusades, like you don't even put in effort into it to such a degree that you just call Britain Albion which is literally just how the Greeks used to call the place in around the 4th century, this went from quite interesting to low tier low effort drivel in literally handful of chapters, insane. No wonder the translators before dropped this, i would as well if i would come from such a strong start into this... Drivel.
I'm beyond disappointed in this, i don't even know why as i wasn't even that invested in this or why this is still in my "reading" tab as i DESPISE school arcs.

It's been awhile so my memory's a bit fuzzy but wasn't it implied that this is earth in the future? So all of this would have sprouted from real world religion, the names being different due to changes in language over time.

 

[Hocbobby]

I know that not everybody can't be J.R.R.Tolkien but just copy paste every single detail of the real world is just lazy and uninspired.

It's been awhile so my memory's a bit fuzzy but wasn't it implied that this is earth in the future? So all of this would have sprouted from real world religion, the names being different due to changes in language over time.

She literally said their version of Jesus and Catholic came out 2000 years ago.

 

[outinthegardener]

Any resemblance to real events or figures is merely coincidental. lol.

Before you complain that it's not original enough, remember this is an alternate Earth with similarities and differences. It's a good setting to tell a story about medieval geo politics with slight fantasy elements.

 

[SunSun]

No wonder the translators before dropped this, i would as well if i would come from such a strong start into this... Drivel.

Previous translators dropped due to the manga being officially licensed.

Imma have my wife read the raws for me to see if it's the original JP or a localisation by the scan group

 

[mahtan]

One don't "believe" in technologyor science, you know it.
If there is something you "believe" without knowing about tchnology or science then you are doing it wrong....


"A new product to start my own business"
My dude, you are living in a uncivilized medieval shithole while having the knowledge of a scientist from modern times, you don't have to do anything new nor revolutionary there just introduce simple eletricity and call it a day, you will be set for life with just that.

 

[Aethelwulf001]

I'm so tired of this stereotypical cringe from manga and anime. The Catholic church is always evil or there's a religious order that is very obviously the Catholic church and its evil. It's lazy writing, that's all it is.

Side note: Anyone else see the whole "England is an island nation and we're an island nation therfore England is the good guy" thing or is it just me?

 

[varezenem]

It's been awhile so my memory's a bit fuzzy but wasn't it implied that this is earth in the future? So all of this would have sprouted from real world religion, the names being different due to changes in language over time.

I thought that too because it made sense. However the whole yeesus 2000ya and king James version breaks that logic.

 

[nobody2002]

So, is this the same Earth, just in the far future? Or a parallel time-line with subtle, yet huge differences?

 

[outinthegardener]

I thought that too because it made sense. However the whole yeesus 2000ya and king James version breaks that logic.

So, is this the same Earth, just in the far future? Or a parallel time-line with subtle, yet huge differences?

It's a parallel Earth, many similarities and some major differences. The biggest is a second intelligent race that used to rule a European Empire, but is now clinging to Scandanavia while facing extinction by religious zealots (Catholica). The second biggest being that a meteor took out the island where Copenhagen is located. And another huge one that I won't spoil yet

I'm so tired of this stereotypical cringe from manga and anime. The Catholic church is always evil or there's a religious order that is very obviously the Catholic church and its evil. It's lazy writing, that's all it is.

Side note: Anyone else see the whole "England is an island nation and we're an island nation therfore England is the good guy" thing or is it just me?

I mean, how aware of the history of the Catholic Church are you? It's a landed political entity the same as any kingdom or empire, and it has done plenty of evil over the last 2000 years.

Albion (England) is not "good," just less racist than the continental Yeesusists. They mention that the Church made a political decision to mistranslate their bible claiming that the Shiyaltans were demons, so they could wage holy war. Albion is far enough away from those zealots that they didn't get wrapped up in it, making them the best possible Kuras trade partners. That's all.

Take notice, we've been introduced to both war hungry religious zealots from another species, and greedy corrupt "Witches" that run the kingdom's bureaucracy. The story is titled "Conqueror from Dying Kingdom." Who do you think he's going to conquer?

 

[lsweb]

who would've thought that we gonna get israel and Palestine

 

[Aethelwulf001]

It's a parallel Earth, many similarities and some major differences. The biggest is a second intelligent race that used to rule a European Empire, but is now clinging to Scandanavia while facing extinction by religious zealots (Catholica). The second biggest being that a meteor took out the island where Copenhagen is located. And another huge one that I won't spoil yet

I mean, how aware of the history of the Catholic Church are you? It's a landed political entity the same as any kingdom or empire, and it has done plenty of evil over the last 2000 years.

Albion (England) is not "good," just less racist than the continental Yeesusists. They mention that the Church made a political decision to mistranslate their bible claiming that the Shiyaltans were demons, so they could wage holy war. Albion is far enough away from those zealots that they didn't get wrapped up in it, making them the best possible Kuras trade partners. That's all.

Take notice, we've been introduced to both war hungry religious zealots from another species, and greedy corrupt "Witches" that run the kingdom's bureaucracy. The story is titled "Conqueror from Dying Kingdom." Who do you think he's going to conquer?

TLDR: My main point is that the "evil" church is a lazy trope that is overused in all isekais and is a hallmark of bad writing. This isekai goes the extra mile by copypasta-ing a map of europe and in-universe lore comes off as a cover for bad writing.

The rest:
I don't want to be that guy but I'll have to ask for a source on the evil the political entity of the Papal States has committed, as for the institution itself I'd need a source on that as well. I make the distinction because there is one. Political entities will commit some form of "evil" action in history, though who's to judge what action counts as evil is based on the perspective of the historian/writer.
The institution itself has approximately 2,000 years on this earth. The fact its actions haven't even been remotely as evil as other short-lived states is rather exceptional. I'll have to rattle of as fast as I can the major accusations against it in order to avoid a drawn-out argument: Crusades, initial one as a defensive war against an encroaching Islam, subsequent versions vary in reason but the initial one is what kicks it off therefore those reasons are the most important. Inquisition, only happened at the request of the state and most people investigated were let go with those condemned handed over to the state, who had legal authority over them, for the legal punishment, death count is often so exaggerated that there weren't enough people alive in Europe to explain where the numbers come from. Final note on the inquisition, it only targeted Catholics, any supposed persecution of other religions would be impossible since at the time the king and queen expelled all foreign religious groups out of Spain leaving only Catholics and converts.
You get the idea. My point is that a political entity is not the same as an institution and the distinction is valid since otherwise your local library would be culpable of overthrowing South American democracies by being part of the government.

 

[Beregorn]

So, Japan conquered Denmark and used it as a breeding ground for a new race of cat-eared girls: the rest of the honest, God-abiding nations understandably decided to nuke them into oblivion. In the ensuing chaos, some managed to survive...

 

[outinthegardener]

TLDR: My main point is that the "evil" church is a lazy trope that is overused in all isekais and is a hallmark of bad writing. This isekai goes the extra mile by copypasta-ing a map of europe and in-universe lore comes off as a cover for bad writing.

The rest:
I don't want to be that guy but I'll have to ask for a source on the evil the political entity of the Papal States has committed, as for the institution itself I'd need a source on that as well. I make the distinction because there is one. Political entities will commit some form of "evil" action in history, though who's to judge what action counts as evil is based on the perspective of the historian/writer.
The institution itself has approximately 2,000 years on this earth. The fact its actions haven't even been remotely as evil as other short-lived states is rather exceptional. I'll have to rattle of as fast as I can the major accusations against it in order to avoid a drawn-out argument: Crusades, initial one as a defensive war against an encroaching Islam, subsequent versions vary in reason but the initial one is what kicks it off therefore those reasons are the most important. Inquisition, only happened at the request of the state and most people investigated were let go with those condemned handed over to the state, who had legal authority over them, for the legal punishment, death count is often so exaggerated that there weren't enough people alive in Europe to explain where the numbers come from. Final note on the inquisition, it only targeted Catholics, any supposed persecution of other religions would be impossible since at the time the king and queen expelled all foreign religious groups out of Spain leaving only Catholics and converts.
You get the idea. My point is that a political entity is not the same as an institution and the distinction is valid since otherwise your local library would be culpable of overthrowing South American democracies by being part of the government.

First off, I never said the church WAS evil, I said it has done many evil actions. And that's the same in the manga- We're just focused on the corrupted elements of the Manga Church because they're the ones starting racist holy wars. In the same chapter we meet Ether who is a very nice individual church member, and we learn that there are multiple nations within the Yeesus faith with doctrinal and political differences. Some are less evil than others.

I can't agree that it's useful to separate political entities with the institution, I think they are diametrically tied. The institution (Culture, doctrines) are derived from the material entities (people, places, external culture influencing, etc.) that adhere to it. And through history the "beliefs" of the church have been adapted to match the culture around them. For example consider how different catholicism is in America than in South Korea or in Brazil.

To your point about libraries being culpable for the crimes of the military, I don't see how that absolves the military (which acts with institutional authority). If you mean to say that institutions don't do crimes, smaller groups of members do crimes; yes, obviously. Institutions are metaphysical concepts made up of groups of members. Like I said, they are diametrically tied. Institution as superstructure, Members as infrastructure. Another important point is when members do crimes and the institution leadership doesn't condemn them.

I see your point about making value judgments about what is evil or not, so I'll start with some broad institutional accusations.

One, that by the 4th century the Church was a landed interest with a ruling class. Certainly there are fringe cases of benevolent ruling classes, but I'd say in general you don't become rulers by playing nice. Anyways you find plenty of examples of the ruling authority abusing their power. Corruption, bribery, selling fake relics, sexual hedonism, indulgences, living in largesse at the expense of the people, excommunication of political rivals, covering up widespread sexual abuse, and waging intersectarian war. As stated before, these are both the crimes of individuals, yet widespread and protected by institutional leaders.

Two, that Christianity uses in group/out group identity to justify violence. Often to attain power/wealth for the ruling class. That includes violence against non-Christians, and sectarian violence between Christians. Starting with Paul of Tarsus advocacy of missionary work, it has led to centuries of "Christian MIssionaries" justifying exploitation and genocide. (This one in particular is the example in the manga. Fake Catholica is waging a colonial war using religious justification). This includes Christian missionaries in Feudal Japan who sought to incite armed insurrection and conquer the island for Christianity. It's no wonder that Japanese culture finds the Church shifty.

 

[EldritchNeko]

So wait, they're planning to trade with what are essentially that world's equivalent to Irish Protestants? Hell yeah. That's fricken cool.

 

[MadAnimator]

Previous translators dropped due to the manga being officially licensed.

Imma have my wife read the raws for me to see if it's the original JP or a localisation by the scan group

Please reply if u confirmed 👍

 

[varezenem]

Two, that Christianity uses in group/out group identity to justify violence.

That Argument is kinda weak. Pretty much any groups of humans did that. Modern day western societies are pretty much the exception to that rule.

 

[Salfaro]

So wait, they're planning to trade with what are essentially that world's equivalent to Irish Protestants? Hell yeah. That's fricken cool.

With how he drew a line through the main island, not the westward one (Ireland-equivalent), I think they're supposed to be Scots.