This is real life. REAL LIFE IN JAPAN.
Yes, I said it before, along other posters, you represents the Hikari-Eriri perspective who Maruto is precisely criticizing both in this work and in Saekano before. You represents the shoujo fangirls who he is actively criticizing (in his works, in his interviews, tweets, statements...) and for that I am saying you need have media literacy or at least start to watch/read earlier Maruto works to understand his position or at least improve your perspective pro-Hikari/Eriri.
False. I have had disagreements with @GennArc or @Rafalga, for example, and I have never accused them for don´t have reading comprehension. I reserve that kind of criticizes for the people who are defending things so ridicuously awful like Hikari ghosting and avoiding Yuu in this chapter, as I feared in previous threads´ comments.
Of course. Again, one of the few things we were agreed is Yuu always choosing Hikari over Aya and Aya being aware from this and one of her big fears. Is precisely see Yuu choosing Hikari over her, even if is she who is ordering explicitily him to do exactly that, the reason why she gets mad in chapter 40.
Exactly, CONFRONTATION. Yuu is already very uncomfortable, upset and hurt all the times Haru lectures him, as a little kid lectured by his mother, he acts basically how if he feels this is a punishment he deserves. All this in a public site where he can have at least the minimum security Haru cannot punch him as Yami and Hikari did it before.
Of course. I didn´t deny it, and as me and other posters said it, we think this is part from the self-despise of Maruto about himself being a submissive man who needs being between the sword and the wall to takes the lead actively, over all in romance, about himself being a submissive man who responds to the voice of his dommy girl as a dog who follows her female owner. This is a feature shared by every his male MC, and inherited by Yuu Izumi in Shikimori-san.
So, other thing she shares with Yuu. He doesn´t seem being passive in non-romantic fields by the few things we saw from him, for e.g. how Seki describes how he fixed her bicycle in chapter 12.4 where she talks with her friend about "Yuu-senpai". Is not coincidence the most decided and "masculine" Yuu is precisely the heartbroken Yuu who renounced to romance because he was living his grief for Yami break-up in the first Hikari chapters.
She taked only the most surface part of their advices and as you saw, that was enough to re-conquer Yuu again and give him hopes to being finally reciprocated by Hikari -and he was-.
Have you noticed that in at least half the quotes that follow you loosely agree w/ the argument I actually made & then launch into an argument against your strawman "shoujo fan girl"?
That's b/c you think their views on Yuu are broadly in line w/ yours.
Vague apologies that leave room for interpretation are not an explicit ask for a conversation.
Sure but she did take it. Could she have been more proactive? Absolutely, but she also wasn't putting distance between her and Yuu while hoping he'd fall for her.
Because your points is criticize Yuu for things who are not really his fault, or, in any case, are a basic part of his personality -who Hikari should known better-, and anyway, they are things shared with Hikari, she is not more proactive than him, and of course, is this submissive personality the reason why Yami is so interested in both. I call you shoujo fan girl precisely because both you and Hikari are expecting Yuu become an alpha male by magic´s art.
Not, that is not the reason. Is because, with our agreements and disagreements, they show a real reading comprehension of the Maruto intents and meanings. And also, they know the earlier works of Maruto. I would take you more seriously if you at least watch Saekano, even more with the recent PV released in Maruto X account where Eriri VA promotions the manga and light novel and announces her support to Hikari.
I agreed with Genn they are vague and ambiguous words who doesn´t generate much trusting (even if, again, Hikari should have realized something from all the things Yami said to her in chapter 41) but they are definitely an ask for a conversation, maybe not too much explicit and very in the typical shy and submissive Yuu style, but they are. Or as minimum, an ask for a response in LINE if Hikari really wants propose talk to him. In his passive and shy way, he returned the ball to her court and is her now who has to take the lead and is her now who is GHOSTING him.
When Yuu putted distance between Hikari and him BEFORE that night in the love hotel with Ayami? @GennArc, this girl is going again with the same.
I think Maruto is intentionally writing these parts of his personality as a character flaw. Which it's not that I want Yuu to be an alpha male, it's that I think Maruto has written Yuu as self aware enough to recognize his flaws and so it would be character growth for him to work on those weaknesses.
One of the reasons Hikari's spiraling in 44 is that he just apologized for confessing and she doesn't know if that means he's done with her. She's in a better mood at the end b/c him telling her about his convo with Haru indicates he's not. (Also cause it lets her know just how much her friends care about her) but also doesn't say anything about whether he wants to talk.
The whole conversation Genn and I were having about how they've been distant since the start of middle school.
Of course, I said basically the same. Yuu is growing, slowly, but he is really advancing. These painful path of grown is common to all the Maruto male MC characters. That doesn´t change he started as a submissive boy and he will end as a submissive boy. Much more mature and wise, but still a submissive boy for nature, and this is the reason why, IMO, Hikari never will be his only one girlfriend. Her only possibility to triumph is precisely in the harem ending with Yami.
This is the kind of things because I say you don´t have media literacy. If you send a LINE messages, is because obviously you want to talk. Even more to a passive boy as Yuu. Hikari at least got this point, even if she is in the right too to think the words of Yuu are ambiguous and he probably could wrote some better, but as a first step in the same cultural festival night, is very good.
If she wanted Yuu to initiate the convo, she wouldn´t be avoiding actively him, the web novel literally says she is almost coming late to class only to being secure he cannot reaches her. At least she would try to organize an "casual" encounter and see if he tries to talk with her or not.
But from her side, not his. He says even after the false love letter thing, he always tried to being the closer possible to Hikari. This is the reason why he was so shocked when Hikari said him she was to study in a different school than him
I don't think of this manga in those terms b/c I don't think of this is a contest between Hikari or Aya and I don't think Maruto has written Yuu as a prize. Not even personality wise but structurally/thematically. I think a solid ending here is one where the characters come out the other end having grown up a bit, whatever that means for the relationships.
Yes Hikari shouldn't have pushed him - but also it doesn't seem to be an issue for Yuu. I think it registered about the same as Aya's slap, which he thinks Aya did nothing wrong. I don't see why he wouldn't apply the same to Hikari given there's nothing in his POV even mentioning it.
I agree it's immature but I think she's doing this out of fear.
She probably didn't talk to her friends to protect Aya, same reason Yuu first asked them to stay friends with Aya before talking.
Or b/c you're trying to apologize but avoid the confrontation. Yuu wants Hikari to be not mad at him enough that their moms don't pry. Whether he wants to resolve the issue is an open question in Hikari's mind.
This happens at the end of the chapter, the reader doesn't know yet if Hikari will keep avoiding him and waiting for him to initiate the convo.
chap 44 said:
At the end of side story 2 he says that the distance between them returned back to childhood friends, which includes being able to go to each other's room. But at the beginning of 3, despite this reset they've not really hung out alone together all of middle school:
Going by chapter 1 of the main story, Hikari may not even be really cognizant of this since she may not have cared if they have alone time. But Yuu is cognizant of this & and it's near the end of middle school, which to me reads that he didn't intentionally try to spend more time with her to try and get her to fall for him.Yuu POV said:
The point here is Hikari never will be the only one girlfriend of Yuu for the personality reasons I already mentioned. And of course, the title itself of the story. But my point is there: Yuu is growing and making more responsible and mature, but he will be a submissive and passive boy who prefers the girl would be who takes the lead. And that is ok.
Because Yuu thinks that was a punishment he deserved, as we can see in his PoV in chapter 38. Is the same reason why he says "you are so cruel, Yami-senpai", after the slap and the robbed kiss. That doesn´t change he doesn´t want be punched neither insulted again and he acts very defensively during all his convo with Haru.
Again, if this would be the case, the web novel wouldn´t specify all the botherings Hikari is doing to avoid Yuu even tries to talk with her in the street. The point is obvious: Hikari understood perfectly the message of Yuu, she knows him very well after all, she knows how he talks and proposes things, and she is deliberately rejecting his hand.
And he is trying to fixing it, this is the reason why I say he returned the ball to Hikari and he is in fully right to expect at least a response for LINE. The ball is in Hikari court right now.
My kinks? You would mean Yuu and Ayami kinks, in any case. All the Yami-Yuu relationship arc, again, left it ridicuously clear, and this is the reason why Maruto focused those chapters in teenager sex, as a narrative way to show how it was their relationship in general terms, those sex scenes was not unneccessary nor for fanservice. Like sex scenes in White Album 2 anime and visual novel.
Nothing in Hikari´s mind suggests that is an open question. Also, as I said, I repeat Yuu sent his mother to mediate with Hikari, is other of his passive tactics. He is proposing talk as civilized people. But if you think he deserves endure more insults and physical aggressions...
Exactly, a part of her wants see and talk with Yuu, and other part has fear and still wants insult him. She is more Ayami than ever. So, precisely you are giving me the reason is Yuu being right about doesn´t wanting to force the things and giving time and space to Hikari to process and think. And again, waiting the visit Hikari promised to his mother.
As I said, this is a new attempt from his part to break the dead point and undoubtely deciding it already passed enough time, this is the reason why he uses the visit of Hikari friends as a reasonable excuse to write to her again and see if this is the missing piece to finally convince Hikari to talk.
Nothing in those words implies they didn´t have dates. Just says those dates were not very intimate than we can say.
Nothing in his chapters or words imply this. Is more implied he tried to close her and Hikari didn´t noticed it or maybe even tried unawarely to far him -for e.g. she trying to make Yuu date other girls-, so he is thinking all his efforts were useless and he needs make a big thing, as Genn said you, to break the dead point.
I think it's fine in the abstract. I think the way this manga is written, Yuu's lack of initiative has played a major role in his romantic failures. This isn't even intended as critique, just a statement of how I'm parsing the narrative.
Doesn't seem that way to me? He asks if they'll get mad at him, and tells them the story straightforwardly - he doesn't make excuses or justifications for any of it.
She's avoiding seeing Yuu, she doesn't know if he'd try to talk to her.
The entire chapter is a spiral of Hikari not knowing what to make of Yuu's messages or his avoidance.
44 said:
I think Maruto centered their relationship on sex to show that they sped run physical intimacy at the cost of emotional intimacy. I think that's why Aya's middle school friend clocks the relationship as doomed in what's gotta be the first few weeks, while Yuu ignores/doesn't address what I think are heavily foreshadowed warning signs of it being doomed and is still clueless a year later.
Or they notice the situation, like it says in text and that's why Hikari's mom is asking first:
Are you asking about the community or about Haru and Yuki?
It's not an obligation of course, but if he seriously wants to be in relationship with Hikari and he now learnt that his ex also happens to be Hikari's best friend, it would be an honest and reasonable thing to tell her about this. And it would be one thing if he thought he'd never meet again with Yami, but he just met her and shared a kiss with her, so this kinda changes the situation.
His romantic failures, yes... his romantic failures with Hikari. Precisely this is the way of Maruto to show they are incompatible and only in an union of three with Yami they would work together as lovers, balancing all together mutually.
I mean when he sees Haru, the first thing he does is ask if she's come to lecture him and blame him for everything.
She knows the possibility of Yuu would try to talk to her is very high, if not, she wouldn´t take so many botherings, so, she definitely got the message and understood Yuu wants to talk but Hikari is making herself the unreachable because she wants Yuu beg to her.
Again, the entire chapter shows very clear Hikari is a hypocrite who cries mentally for the "avoidance of Yuu" but later makes all the possible for don´t want see him.
Once again, you come so close to the real answer, only to fail in the last minute, with reason you are so similar to Hikari, you die in the shore after too much swim.
Hikari´s mom noticed the situation, true. But Hikari doesn´t see what happens in Takamura House. So, she doesn´t know nothing. So, the most probably is Yuu talking with his mother or asking her to go to talk with Hikari when his mother noticed the situation and asked him for the problems with Hikari.
Again, the line about "I never even seriously thought about what I’d need to do to stand beside Hikari in the first place" is precisely one of the proofs he is realizing in this point he is not enough "masculine" to be able to attract Hikari.
And Aya. Her core complaint was Yuu didn't reach out his hand or fight for her. A sub complaint is Yuu seems to be just going with the flow in their conversation about her family, just accepting what she says as true. However much you may think her rant is unhinged, I think it's very intentional on Maruto's part that her complaints are fundementally about Yuu's passivity.
Looking at the panel , seems like he said that in a resigned way, not a defensive one.
She knows the possibility that she'd run into Yuu is high b/c in like chapter 2 she's purposely orchestrating the meetings.
Hikari would like Yuu to take the proactive step of explaining himself and is avoiding running into Yuu accidentally b/c she's afraid it'll confirm her worst fears (that he doesn't want anything to do w/ her).
Dude, this is condescending as all out, especially since in the rest of your post you never address the core of the argument. Aya's friend knew Aya well enough to recognize the alarm bells, while it's been a year and Yuu still doesn't understand why Aya ghosted.
Or that his mom has noticed Hikari hasn't been coming over and mentioned it to Hikari on her own. Dunno that seems more obvious than a teenage boy pulling his mom into his relationship drama, especially since the Yuu POV chapters only have him talking to his parents about the exam and no relationship stuff.
Not, Yami complains is about Yuu not being enough submissive with her, precisely this is the reason why she wanted he looked her. This is the only thing Hikari is better than Yuu before Ayami eyes: she is even more submissive than him and more docile to the real Yami desires and always pardon her, why Yuu has more self-respect and tries more to being the conscience´s voice of Yami.
Not, he lost the relationship because he really fought for her, as his omake chapters proved, but he didn´t fight enough and surrended prematurely. Is precisely the thing Kazusa says to Haruki in White Album 2 chapter 3: "you surrender so easily, Kitahara", and in both cases, both Haruki and Yuu have to improve in this field, but, again, without lefting to be submissive men, but even for being the submissive boyfriend/husband of Kazusa or Ayami, they have to fight until the end, this is the point of Kazusa True End in Coda.
Good point, but I mean this is his form to being defensive, he is very resigned in his suffering moments, like Haruki and Yuu Izumi. This is exactly how Izumi acted in his suffering moments, with resignation and following towards after all.
Yes, this is the point, she know if she orchestrates a meeting with Yuu, is he who probably would say the first word, and again, in this moment, she doesn´t want talk with him. Exactly like Ayami, a part of her wants talk with Yuu and other part NOT. So, he takes the right decision giving her a days to think, she is stay in her house and going to classes, she didn´t disappear from Earth´s face like Yami did with the ghosting.
Again, this would be more valid if Hikari wouldn´t have used the violence against Yuu. That thrown away quits very legitimacy to her position. This, along with her GHOSTING and making all the possible for AVOID Yuu, is the reason why her desires are hypocrite and the proof she doesn´t want see Yuu now and if he would take the initiative, she would insult him first
And this is the reason why I am saying Yuu is taking the initiative with those LINE messages, to his usual passive way, but he is doing it.
Because Yuu saw the alarm bells, and try to act before them, but neither him nor Aya´s friend counted with Yami mother. In a few words, Aya´s friend underestimated Yami and Yuu overestimated his girlfriend. This is the reason why I am saying why Maruto did the break-up reason was the suicide attempt of Yami mother, an event who Ayami friend never would have expected.
Or his mom asked to Yuu about what happened with Hikari and both agreed Yuu mom would go to mediate with Hikari, even is probably Yuu didn´t tell everything to his mom. This is the reason why I said "Yuu sent his mother directly or INDIRECTLY".
Because omake chapters are mainly centered in his heartbrokens and they are not his real PoV. But is almost impossible his parents never noticed his illusion with Yami first, and later his depression after the break-up, when even Hikari realized it unawarely.
Hikari doesn't know how to parse the line messages and Hikari's mother asked her w/o prompting from Hikari, Hikari does not have any reason to believe Yuu's mother asked her on prompting from Yuu.
I think the "confessing something you didn't even mean" coupled with the "or maybe" imply that Hikari doesn't know where she stands with Yuu.
It would completely defeat the purpose, b/c to her it'd feel like more of Yuu trying to mollify her - "what are you even apologizing for" - when what she wants is for Yuu to care enough to want to put himself out there to talk to her. Which includes Yuu taking the risk that she's gonna yell at him. Initiative in a passive way doesn't work b/c there's no risk, and the risk taking is the point.
How did Yuu see the alarm bells and try to act on them? After the break up, he's bewildered:
Yuu 4 said:
But Aya's friend was correct when she predicted that the relationship was doomed. I think Aya's mom was Aya's rationalization for the self-destructive decision Aya's friend knew Aya was always gonna make. It's why the fireworks chapter hits on similar notes as the convo with the friend: someone like me/if I was a normal girl, he's all I need/if only he'd hold out his hand.
Or this is a different story w/ different dynamics? Which is why there's nothing in text suggesting this.
His passivity is not a problem in his relationship with Aya. His passivity is precisely the reason why Aya wanted being his girlfriend in first place. His cowardice does it. Very different. Being passive doesn´t mean being coward, precisely Yuu proved it several times. He really tried to look Yami, maybe he didn´t fight until the end, but Yami definitely didn´t put easy to him -so she really didn´t want see him and this is the reason why in chapter 30 she asks mentally to him doesn´t make more difficult "my decision"-. But he really fought for her, even if his cowardice made him give up, but several weeks of search is not precisely "passivity" for a 15 year old boy confused and traumatized.
She understood enough from the LINE messages. She understood Yuu still wants be in her life, and after Yami erratic words to her, she at least should have been more empathetic with him if she really defended him before Yami.
Yes that is the point, she doesn´t trust on Yuu, his words are not the better and definitely ambiguous, but she definitely understood he wants talk at least and she is who decided GHOSTING him and AVOIDED him. She at least can respond him and ask for explanations, but she doesn´t do it.
Yes, that is the point, Hikari lost the right to do "that" after she thrown away Yuu to the floor in the school gym. You here are precisely validating the mistreat and abuse, the violence against men, because "he has to take the risk". You precisely are giving me here the reason, he is making the correct doesn´t forcing the things more until Hikari proccesed everything what happened and can talk with a minimum of decency with Yuu.
Chapter 28:
These are definitely the words of somebody who detected the red flags and is trying to avoid the disaster. And all his warnings proved to be true.
Because he thought he could control all the factors and red flags he saw it and he believed everything was working. He was aware from the danger, but he thought he could handle it. And at least until certain point, seems he really reached it, and was an external factor who screwed everything.
Definitely this is the more pessimistic vision about Ayami I have seen in much time. If you can help @GennArc, I give you the thanks, I´m tired.
Again, I said all the times Hikari and Yami describes Yuu parents as responsible, very aware and sensible people, this is the reason why they invited to dinner to Hikari so constantly, because she was alone in home without her parents. A people like that, so similar to Yuu Izumi parents who treated Miyako as their own daughter, definitely would have noticed the emotional changes who Yuu Takamura had during his relationship with Ayami / Kamiya.
