Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi wo Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 25 - Before Dawn

[jwalkercat]

I feel like there's a decent chance the chapter title is supposed to be a Before Sunrise reference, esp given the similarities between the events here and the ending of the film. Idk how popular it is in Japan tho, so it might just be coincidence

 

[eviljackspicer]

You know what this "kinda" reminds me of? The moment in Harry Potter where Harry is visiting Snape's Memories. I know that these past memories are important as they involve the MC. With this new girl in the mix, who is obviously not the leading FC (anymore if I may add), adding her wouldn't make much sense as she's just a side character, who up until now, has been there on a few occasions. I can sort of understand why the memory dump is happening now of all places, but I'm seeing two big problems:

A: It's coming off of a long trail of fluffy chapters between MC/FMC with little/no interaction with this girl who holding key plot relevant information, resulting in a tone clash.

B: The memory chapters are being broken up and not given to the readers all at once to absorb all of the information. The multiple chapters makes it feel like I'm being driven through the woods stopping at random intervals when I asked the uber driver to drive me to a predetermined location. I get the fact that I will get to my destination eventually, but the un-determined number of stops through the woods is jarring. The memories of this girl should have been one long mega chapter, so we're jumping from: FMC shock from seeing the MC kiss this girl, the girl's memories and its relevance to the plot and characters, and jump back with readers ready to see how the character's react with necessary context in hand.

 

[HalfACupOfRice]

This chapter is literally like Ganbare Douki-chan Chap 220 but the emotions of most readers are reversed lol.

 

[CynicalPepper]

Curiosity about what? You don't care for the characters, you don't care for the plot, and you don't care for the way it's being told. It doesn't sound like you're even enjoying the "trainwreck" value. If you only like the art, Yom has drawn and worked on other stuff. Don't waste your time with something you don't like, there's plenty of other series to read.

I'm not sure where you're getting that this only has one way to go, this arc so far has been a flashback, most likely to give context to whatever brought about the kiss, and possibly see the difference between the middle school Yuu and the high school Yuu. Like I said in the previous post, this arc is full of what Hikari (and the reader) doesn't know about Aya and Yuu. Whenever we return to the cliffhanger, we'll have more information about what's going on than either Hikari or Aya, adding tension to whatever the fuck happens. But we won't know what happens till it happens, and I'm only making guesses to intent without the entire series existing.

I never said it only has one way to go I said that the directions that it'll go in feels like senseless drama or a route that wouldn't be very satisfying to go down.

 

[mallet]

Which is why I ask who has this happened to because if it doesn't happen it's unrealistic. Ik a girl who had something similar happened she got help the guy is in jail and no stranger boy she had just was manipulated. Her actions aren't realistic. She decides out of all options let's manipulate a boy I've met twice. Can you believe that shit would ever happen? Selling yourself on the streets at 17 because of home life is the most realistic part of it and she didn't even actually do that. She had sex with a random boy she met who was pitiful instead of bettering her situation. Unrealistic as hell.

When was he rejected?

He got rejected by the school in chapter 23, which is what he's been trying use to keep pace with Hikari. Hikari's never rejected him and Yuu's never confessed his feelings as far as we've seen. However we've already had her narrate that she didn't start thinking of him as anything more than a little brother until a year prior, which would be about half a year ahead of where this arc is.

I've had personal friends and family friends that have been in similar situations. Not everyone is willing to ask for help and some will even lash out at you for even daring to offer. Aya didn't trust anyone that she saw regularly, and it didn't seem like anyone gave a shit about her. Seeing we know she didn't drop out and she's friends with Hikari and her group, things did change for the better. This arc is probably the time we're going to see that change and all anyone needs now is a bit of patience and let the damn author do his job. I agree that the pacing has been awful but we know how some of this stuff ends precisely because it is a flashback.

 

[CynicalPepper]

That's your opinion mate, not a fact. I think it worked just fine, even if it split the reader base into enjoyers and whiners.

Calling everyone whiners is bad faith interpretation of reasonable frustration to a questionable direction in a story.

Lmao, what? You're contradicting yourself. If you're curious, that means you care about what happens next.

This is the chapter that made me stop caring to clarify. I'm only sticking around to see if they find a satisfying conclusion with the wiggle room they've provided themselves. A grim curiosity of a writer. Doesn't necessarily mean that I care. I believe that there is always something to learn from a piece of art or media even if I personally don't care for it, mostly just sticking round cause I'm too far in like I said. If the series had something that happened at the start, I would've dropped it without hesitation otherwise but we're about halfway there, or maybe close to the end, who knows.

The purpose of this arc is exploring Ayami's POV and setting up for the central conflict of the story - the love triangle of two friends loving the same guy.
How did they meet, fall in love, and why did they break up? Was it because of Hikari?
How did Yuu become the man that Hikari eventually fell for?
What happened in the classroom, why did she slap and then kiss him?
It's the story of the girl who was too late, and the girl who loved him when she had nothing else.

There isn't really any meaning to it, no? It can either go in a route that has unnecessary drama that turns one or all of the characters into unlikeable people. Have the possibility of going in the direction that is most likely to lead to an unsatisfactory ending by having the FL find someone else that we don't know shit about which multiple romance mangas of similar purposes in telling their story in such a way has done before. Also, confused by the question of, "How did Yuu become the man that Hikari eventually fell for?" Cause why should I care about that?

I can't imagine that it's nothing other than a footnote that serves no purpose to the story when it seems he hadn't even changed that much to begin with compared to his old self in the flashback and now.

I'll actually give you something for the slap cause I've completely forgotten about that since we've been on this flashback for so long.

We've had hundreds of stories already of girls who were too late. I don't really see the purpose on adding another to the pile.

If you like a story like this, good on you, but I'm not a fan of being frustrated needlessly when things could've been made much simpler. I reiterate uniqueness does not equate to the quality of a work. If they have something planned that I'm not aware of planned afterward that'd gonna defy expectations, that'd be cool, stories are capable of doing so much and I can't predict everything so that might be the case as well which is also partly why I'm sticking around as which was sort of iterated upon in the first paragraph. This could be the most peak romance story to ever exist or something I wouldn't know it or something, who knows.

What?
There are countless avenues to explore:

I am aware.

How will Hikari react?
Will she confess regardless?

Maybe? Don't know what the purpose would be, maybe it'd be nice to have a story about getting a weight off of your chest or something? Maybe they're trying to go for that I'm not sure.

Double down on her efforts?

Would you want that?

Resign and give up?

A couple of scenarios proposed technically already fall under that bracket.

Seek love somewhere else?

Hopefully, they flesh out a relationship with this someone instead of cutting to the credits and showing them off like we knew them the whole time.

What about her friendship with Ayami? What about their friend group?

I genuinely forgot they even existed before this chapter-- not realizing, most problems I have could also possibly due to the release schedule, but who knows? It's the most likely case. Maybe the reason why I forgot them and don't care about them is due to this case.

How will Ayami act when she knows that Hikari saw them?
She still has feeling for Yuu. Will she try to go back into a relationship with him or does she value her friendship with Hikari more than her love for Yuu? She did try to distance herself from him after all, but kissed him in the heat of the moment.

I dunno, I dislike the scenario to begin with so I have no input on these questions and wonder what good there would be for if the scenario is entertained.

What about the guy in question? Does he like his childhood friend, whom he’s always admired, or his ex-gf, who made him the person Hikari fell in love with in the first place?

I'm not sure, but he seems to have not mind the due to certain body language shown in the chapter in question just before the flashback, but the author might pull a psyche like they did last time. I apologize if I can't find much trust in the direction the author might take. But if he did like the FL the entire time, his body language comes off as shallow, which is why I propose that maybe the author will do another psyche out or something or they'll double down in some way.

Again, I don't understand this question of, "How did he become this person?" when he isn't that different to begin with. You're proposing the question like he's become this wisened-chad from his days during the flashback rather than it just being normal maturity over time.

FUCK, I wish people would stop calling everything they personally dislike 'trash' or a 'trainwreck.'
It's so fucking tiring, especially when it's actually a good story written by someone who knows what they're doing.
He did write one of the best-received Visual Novels of all time, after all...

Do you mean their Light Novel or is there an actual Visual Novel that this author has written that I don't know of? Also, I'm not exactly a supporter of the decision they went with with their Light Novel either So I guess opinions haven't changed. I'll be as charitable as I can but in general, I'm disassociating my way through the remainder or at least until this flashback ends.

Also, even if the term can't be applied to the quality of the story, it's sort of objective that the situation itself is a trainwreck, no? lol

 

[SadMookz]

By breaking the flow of the story.

And? That's just a dual narrative at work here.
Perfectly timed, even - just as we were about to get a confession, we get 'rug-pulled' by the twist and thrown right into the POV of our 2nd FeMC. Peak writing.

Trying to make a questionable character likeable in a very heavy-handed fashion. (this doesn't apply if you liked her before, but to people who were neutral their opinion probably turned the other way)
We don't need to learn the entire story of her life to know what happened in the classroom.
Anyways, why did it need to be this edgy? Because he decided to name the characters Hikari and Ayami? Pffft.

No, we don't, but whether you like it or not, Ayami is one of the main characters of the story. Giving readers a glimpse into Ayami's life - runaway and potential high school dropout because of a creepy stepfather and uncaring mother, in contrast to Hikari's more typical upbringing - provides context for her motivations and actions, just as learning about Hikari's life did.
There is no need to 'manipulate' the readers into liking her. Being 'edgy' is part of her character - a teenager confronted by hardships, pretending to be all grown up, wanting to 'ruin' someone whose problems seem minor in comparison, but ultimately coming off as childish.
See @mallet's previous comment, he explained it better than I did:

Spoiler: mallet's explanation

For Aya's arc, she can't even be honest inside of her own head. It's similar to how flippant she was in Hikari's arc, but she seemed to have mellowed in the future. She was going to prostitute herself before she even had her first time. She was flunking out of a prestigious high school because she wasn't showing up to classes. She pretended to be a grown woman, but it only showed how childish she was. Her backstory under normal circumstances would be sympathetic, but she acts in incredibly unsympathetic ways. Given her nickname is Yami, I don't think her classmates have a high opinion of her either. This chapter is her trying to stay with the guy she just spilled her heart out to, but portraying it, at first, as if he's the one losing out. The way the story is progressing, she probably learns to be more honest with Yuu, though I'm guessing that ends in one more bout of childishness. I'm mostly certain she is intentionally unsympathetic (for now), given how she narrates in this arc, presented coming off the cliffhanger that still isn't resolved. This is also an extension of the stuff Hikari doesn't know, still outside of the time she started noticing Yuu. With this the reader will know how the current Yuu came to be, even though Hikari won't.

Maaaaaan. I wish we could learn all that but we're getting cockblocked by a flashback that keeps hitting the same keys.

We will, though? I swear, half the outrage is because of the abysmal release schedule.
The flashback is only 41 pages so far - that's less than two chapters of a weekly series, but it took us two months.
If it had stayed weekly, maybe people would stop shitting on the 'pacing', which is absolutely fucking fine. We speedran an entire relationship, from the first meeting to sex, in just 41 pages - that's a breakneck pace.

He also wrote Engage Kiss. Damekoi was very divisive. Because someone did something right once it doesn't mean everything they do is right. You could go into any bookstore, pick a YA novel at random and land on something written better than this manga.

Okay, I'll give you that. One good work doesn't make an author immune to producing bad ones.
It just rubs me the wrong way when people call something bad writing without explaining what’s actually wrong with it.

 

[CynicalPepper]

You know what this "kinda" reminds me of? The moment in Harry Potter where Harry is visiting Snape's Memories. I know that these past memories are important as they involve the MC. With this new girl in the mix, who is obviously not the leading FC (anymore if I may add), adding her wouldn't make much sense as she's just a side character, who up until now, has been there on a few occasions. I can sort of understand why the memory dump is happening now of all places, but I'm seeing two big problems:

A: It's coming off of a long trail of fluffy chapters between MC/FMC with little/no interaction with this girl who holding key plot relevant information, resulting in a tone clash.

B: The memory chapters are being broken up and not given to the readers all at once to absorb all of the information. The multiple chapters makes it feel like I'm being driven through the woods stopping at random intervals when I asked the uber driver to drive me to a predetermined location. I get the fact that I will get to my destination eventually, but the un-determined number of stops through the woods is jarring. The memories of this girl should have been one long mega chapter, so we're jumping from: FMC shock from seeing the MC kiss this girl, the girl's memories and its relevance to the plot and characters, and jump back with readers ready to see how the character's react with necessary context in hand.

This is actually a really great way of putting it. At some points I've outright forgotten certain things that had happened and the release schedule doesn't necessarily help which is probably nobody's fault for this as well but it does negatively impact the story it's attempting to tell. Maybe it'll be perfectly handled and have a satisfying conclusion, but this issue that should've probably only lasted a couple chapters at most ends up lasting for way longer leaving the readers frustrated and marinating in a situation that they find more than disagreeable which overall effects the overall experience.

 

[horsewithnoname]

There is no real ntr but from the readers pov the character we spent 20 chapters with just saw her friend kissing her crush. There is no outrage about yami not being a virgin the outrage is author pulled rug after 20 chaps of fluff.

Calling people colossal losers over a standard they have is kinda ridiculous especially since everyone is entitled to their own opinion about who they want to have a relationship with.

This is not the real world it's a manga that is not even realistic and please don't use betas all that stuff is crap. Are there some people spineless or lack the courage to do stuff absolutely. Nothing else of what you said makes sense because how is being a good person an abnormal expectation.

Cool

It's unrealistic. How many times have u been touched by ur step dad and then decided to sleep with a stranger? How many love hotels have u gone too at 17? How many people have u manipulated because something when wrong in your home life? Yami chooses not to get the help she needs and throws herself at a stranger to feel something this is the behavior of a bad person not a realistic romance. None of what I said has been because my sexual escapades have been barren it's because I'm not bad person.

Hi,

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and I think it's correct for a lot of people - as is my opinion. My reality has been that some of my friends had been really passive in the past and felt slighted when someone they liked turned heads to someone else. I guess I'm just angry that a lot of people read fluff filled manga and it romanticized, well, romance. I think romance is a cutthroat endeavor - you don't have to be absolute asshole backstabber about it but you do need to work on yourself. Which is why im so irked reading manga with effortless love e.g. my idol neighbor love me for some reason becuase we were osananajimi etc and influence people's real perception about real life and got absolutely dashed when reality hits you way way harder.

My language had been most appropriate, I was very tired and quite excited with the story and is also irked with all the review bombing it to 1. I know some people would not like this kind of development but people rating 10s and 1s willy nilly has been skewing manga popularity online with clear points advantage for fluff manga where nothing deserving happens to the useless MC. Which in my subjective opinion a lot of them are just crap - but still shouldnt be rated 1 except maybe if its literal child rape murder sodomy or something. Alas this is no defense for how vile my fingers had been typing such foul language and for that I do apologize.

Now for the realistic part - I kind of find it resembling my past adolescent environment. There are people so hurt, they hurt other people in their confusion. They're essentially just kids receiving trauma so shocking theyre numbed to the point of apathy or antipathy even, and are grasping at straws to make them feel like "I'm here" or "I matter". Horrible adults and horrible kids are everywhere, regardless of social strata or religion (ones from religious families are always more fucked up for some reason). Some of my fucked up friends are poor some of them mid class and some of them filthy rich.

These people - who were kids at the time, were doing horrible things just to feel whatever they wanted to feel to make sense of their twisted lives. No tragedy excuse their horrible actions of course, but in time some of them really shaped up to become real fully rounded people. And I think socially it's mighty important to understand why people are they way they are, and without excusing their faults, and befriend them anyway. Some of them truly just want someone to trust in and is living in a roundabout way because they really don understand otherwise.

Now your last line I truly disagree with. I think having consensual sex such as depicted in this manga here does not constitute people being a bad person. I personally had never been touched by a step parent but I had some trauma as my teacher did tried to touch me - I was one of the twisted kid at the time, and I did already had sex by the time I was a teen - consensually ok, but of course not in hotels. Kids free from parent's love always find themselves in empty homes so there are no need for hotels.

So yeh. I think this manga strikes me as more realistic than a lot of fully fluff manga, especially since both fluff and drama is depicted here. I do believe the youth shouldn't get too comfortable reading only the nice parts of life because as kids do, they will approach the world believing every sharp corners had been dulled for them. And may felt betrayed in return.

Damn this shit is too long. Have a good day.

 

[fflogschampion]

Do you mean their Light Novel or is there an actual Visual Novel that this author has written that I don't know of? Also, I'm not exactly a supporter of the decision they went with with their Light Novel either So I guess opinions haven't changed. I'll be as charitable as I can but in general, I'm disassociating my way through the remainder or at least until this flashback ends.

Also, even if the term can't be applied to the quality of the story, it's sort of objective that the situation itself is a trainwreck, no? lol

He wrote WA2, one of the highest rated VNs in pretty much any site focused on those, it sold well too in the VN niche. Saekano was his most successful work by far though and that's why that might be the main one you've heard of.

It just rubs me the wrong way when people call something bad writing without explaining what’s actually wrong with it.

People are explaining what they think to be wrong with it. You don't see those things as wrong. It's about as simple as that. There's zero chance people will change their minds here because the author did this in a very polarizing way.

I just want to make it clear I'm not bothered by the contents of the story, there are others stories that deal with similar themes but did it better in my opinion, but by how it was presented and the reason is a mix of: The release schedule. Short chapters. Suddenly jumping between scenes. A 180° tonal shift without proper build-up (it only works in hindsight.) An untimely flashback. And I still stand by shamelessly attempting to shift the audience in her favor, to the point he made her a virgin and put out a comment about this on twitter. The first three also apply to the Hikari part of the manga which I was just reading because Yom was drawing them.

Maybe this was the real scam, because without Yom I would've never even bothered checking this.

 

[CynicalPepper]

He wrote WA2, one of the highest rated VNs in pretty much any site focused on those, it sold well too in the VN niche. Saekano was his most successful work by far though and that's why that might be the main one you've heard of.

Thanks for the info

 

[anideki]

so, how long until she learns about everything they did? I kinda just wanna skip until that and drop it after lol.

 

[Ravinous]

🍿🤔
Just gonna sit back and watch the chaos this series is causing among it's readers.

 

[Kinger556]

Alright so seriously, regardless of if you like or dislike these recent chapters the fact is that this wasn't a 'twist'. It was a blatant betrayal of expectations towards the readers. Luring people in for a particular genre, vibe, or feeling and then changing it 20 chapters in isn't a 'twist'.

That's like saying you go to a Pork Restaurant and then after you make your order they give you Chicken. That's not a 'twist', it's a blatant lie.

So to all you people enjoying it, good for you. Seriously, it's fine to like anything you want and I can see the entertainment behind it. But don't badmouth people who feel betrayed by this because they have the right to be and are quite frankly, correct.

 

[Stinger]

Alright so seriously, regardless of if you like or dislike these recent chapters the fact is that this wasn't a 'twist'. It was a blatant betrayal of expectations towards the readers. Luring people in for a particular genre, vibe, or feeling and then changing it 20 chapters in isn't a 'twist'.

That's like saying you go to a Pork Restaurant and then after you make your order they give you Chicken. That's not a 'twist', it's a blatant lie.

So to all you people enjoying it, good for you. Seriously, it's fine to like anything you want and I can see the entertainment behind it. But don't badmouth people who feel betrayed by this because they have the right to be and are quite frankly, correct.

Not every story is meant to be predictable, the literal definition of plot twists is to introduce something unexpected. So it's funny that you are here saying that this isn't a plot twist because it's something you didn't expect when that actually proves that it succeeded.

 

[RedMistKnight]

Yami's motivations changed. Why the guy knows and reacts to that? Don't ask me.

Their friendship should be over. Anyone who ever saw something like this happening in a friend group knows this, either Ayami or Hikari would leave that friend group in the next few days. We know this won't happen in this story because it's retarded, though.

I would love it if we cut back to the present and Hikari responds with a mean right hook to break her "friend's" nose and walks out. fucking done.

 

[mallet]

He wrote WA2, one of the highest rated VNs in pretty much any site focused on those, it sold well too in the VN niche. Saekano was his most successful work by far though and that's why that might be the main one you've heard of.



People are explaining what they think to be wrong with it. You don't see those things as wrong. It's about as simple as that. There's zero chance people will change their minds here because the author did this in a very polarizing way.

I just want to make it clear I'm not bothered by the contents of the story, there are others stories that deal with similar themes but did it better in my opinion, but by how it was presented and the reason is a mix of: The release schedule. Short chapters. Suddenly jumping between scenes. A 180° tonal shift without proper build-up (it only works in hindsight.) An untimely flashback. And I still stand by shamelessly attempting to shift the audience in her favor, to the point he made her a virgin and put out a comment about this on twitter. The first three also apply to the Hikari part of the manga which I was just reading because Yom was drawing them.

Maybe this was the real scam, because without Yom I would've never even bothered checking this.

Aya is a teenaged version of Senpai from Ganbare Douki-Chan, with a lot more of her thoughts revealed. The bed scenes in chapter 23 mirror the one Senpai had with Douki-kun in college. I've hinted at "acting like a grown women instead of pretending to be one" in a previous post because I think that's the direction this arc is heading in, rejecting her own feelings despite everything that happens.

I don't think there was any method of introducing a love rival that wouldn't be polarizing, and I still don't think it was poorly done here. The romcom hijinks kept nailing the point that even though Hikari was in love with the guy that lives right next door, there's a lot she doesn't know about him. She didn't know about the date with the kouhai, nor him applying to her high school, nor his complex towards her, nor the reason why he didn't want to come to her school, nor how he feels about her. The kiss was the final nail. With that we get the shift in narration (even down to doing a 180 so the kiss is reframed by the outside windows and rain, and Hikari isn't shown), that starts filling in the stuff Hikari hasn't seen and doesn't know, by someone the reader is already primed to hate. I think part of the plan from this point on was to eventually make Aya sympathetic despite her best efforts, through narration, to do the opposite, but Maruto underestimated how much people would hate Aya. She acts different in this arc than how we've seen her with Hikari, but maybe the contrast wasn't enough for some to give her a chance. This arc has been less episodic than the previous arc so far. Their first meeting was one chapter, but the last three have been about their second.

This weird serial format isn't doing the story any favors, but when you read the chapters straight through all the parts come together. There's already been a couple of commenters in this thread doing just that. But I think the bigger problem is that a lot of people continue to half-read something they don't like, call it bad because they don't like it, and yet feel obligated to parade how much they don't like it. It's that ridiculous attitude that somehow convinces authors to do dumb shit like that tweet, trying to appease people that aren't looking to be appeased. I thought by now the people who felt betrayed would have been filtered but they apparently keep reading. I could be completely wrong about everything I've said about the story, but I'd rather argue about that than trying to convince people that they don't understand what NTR means.

 

[daSweep]

People need to chill lmao, it's just a series of panels with words in them. Didn't even go on for that long before the change, like 20 chapters? If it was a long running series with 100 chapters and then something like this happened I would sort of understand the outrage, but come on people. Is anyone honestly THAT invested after just 20 chapters of little-to-no progress fluff? We barely even know our characters at this point.

 

[Tivoli]

"OH NO! THE AUTHOR HAS BETRAYED MY EXPECTATIONS WAAAAA!"

Holy shit, shut the fuck up already, dude. You should've fucked off already after chapter 21, but instead you're whining here like a little bitch.

 

[fflogschampion]

snip

There is polemic and then there is polarizing. Introducing a romantic rival will always be polemic but not always make people take sides as hard as they did here. The setup was made to be the most shocking it could be without resorting to sex or someone getting stabbed. The next chapter dropping so much of Ayami's lore straight out of the gate with three entires pages of basically text didn't help a bit, she couldn't even remain mysterious for a bit more. We, the readers, don't slowly learn more about her as she changes and we already know the outcome of this situation so the changes don't bring up anything new. The chapters are too short have a deeper dive on her character, so that's also not helping in improving her image for people who weren't already invested in her from maybe even before the twist. It's just shallow and felt like getting a reaction from the public was the priority rather than developing the story.

Then you're talking about people who come here to complain instead of quitting. People who wanted to quit already quit, the rest of the people who remained, like myself, are here to laugh, make noise, or are just waiting to see a specific outcome from this story (maybe not even the end) before having a laugh, clapping, and leaving. They aren't even here to ship characters anymore, they just want to see the circus burning. Anyone who kept up with discussions of series like KimiMachi/Fuuka, Good Ending/Domekano, Kanokari, Shounen no Abyss, etc., knows this is going to keep happening every time an author pulls something like this in their stories.