Is tribalism really that bad?

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

I've seen my fair share of tribalism talks in comments arguing against the implementation of a like system in comments _{(couldn't find the specific thread talking about tribalism, if you have the link plz leave it here.)} But recently I've thought it over and asked myself - "Is tribalism really that bad?" Here are my arguments:


1. Tribalism is ubiquitous.
I did a bit of googling and found this wiki article.

Neotribalism (a.k.a. neo-tribalism and modern tribalism) is a sociological concept which postulates that human beings have evolved to live in tribal society, as opposed to mass society, and thus will naturally form social networks constituting new "tribes".

If this is theorized to be the future, why not just embrace it now? I mean, if you think about it we are already tribalizing...
Some real-world scenarios are in the following:

Spoiler

-Subreddits within Reddit;
-Different anime fandoms within the anime community;
-Social circles in classrooms;
-Facebook groups;
-Etc.

2. Preventing the formation of subcommunities is probably impossible.
Let's ask the following question: "what creates a tribe?" I think that it's the minor conflicting interests within a community, but not major enough to cause the community to split. An example is the anime community - you got a variety of different genre that an action-junkee would never watch the yaoi that fujoshis consume on a daily basis. Minor conflicting interests happen everywhere, grouping within a community is a certainty.


3. Would tribalism really break the community?
If neotribalism is commonplace and it is sure to decimate a community from within, why haven't we seen an online community breaking apart due to tribalism?



That said, this argument is talking solely about tribalism and not about the implementation of a like system. Although, I won't stop it if the direction of the conversation steers towards that route.

 

[421cookies]

I am pro-orgasm

 

[BlackGeneral]

^

 

[sterven]

Simple answer no

 

[kusei-are]

How can you be "pro-" or "anti-" tribalist? That's like being pro- or antigravity.

 

[Assasinart]

Wait. You mean this thread isn't about that lesbian sex move?

 

[Greg_no_Gregory]

@Assasinart lmao. Literally my first thoughts after reading the title at first.

 

[Rheeve]

Tribalism is just a inherent trait of being a social species. It's only bad if uncontrolled and unmitigated.

 

[ikotsu]

I don't think that you can postulate that the effects of tribalism are "bad" or "good" because its an inherent social construct that we migrate to either consciously or unconsciously.

You can see it on things like "Groups" on Facebook, or in communities like this one (mangadex vs aggregator sites).

We protecc, we attacc, we praise Chika. It's just the way that we are wired to form into groups to proliferate or engage in an agenda or means to an end. Usually we feel a sense of "self" in others that share common interests.

 

[LowSanity]

Tribalism isn't good or bad, it's both. Tribalism makes us closer to ppl in our tribe but at the same time it makes tribes fight each other.

 

[AfterMidnightMoon]

Pee is stored in the bladder balls. A choice is a choice. I might as well take it.

 

[Exiled]

@ikotsu The notion of Tribalism has certain connotations though when it comes to individuality and independent thought. The more people get onboard with the idea of belonging to a tribe the more susceptible they are to brainwashing and subverting their own better judgment in the name of conformity. Group structures are natural to an extent in human society, but how we choose to draw those lines and our attitudes toward them are what really matter.

 

[Huji]

I want to have an African tribe leader, like in the lion king, rawr XD

 

[crazybars]

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN

It's not about Tribalism for A like, Dislike System. Usually a Like, Dislike system becomes a majority rules system.

Worse, people usually upvote or downvote using a knee jerk or gut reaction without thought. WHAT ARE THE RATINGS GOOD FOR THEN? Jokes, lots of jokes and memes.


An additional problem with majority rule of course is that there's a Very high temptation to start punishing people based on the Like, Dislike Ratio.

That and the average User is NOT AN EXPERT at niche subjects like "how does a Knightly Charge actually work" so their ratings can't be trusted to be correct there.

 

[Cryotic]

@crazybars I have to disagree. A like/dislike system can contribute to creating tribalism, especially when it comes to political, ethical and cultural topics. I can assume it's unlikely these kinds of topics are often discussed in a manga reading site, but they do appear now and then when a manga through its art tells a story about some topics, such as a human massacre in Youjo Senki.

If we are to add a like/dislike system. It is very likely a liberal point of view will be the most popular, as it's a very idealistic view to a general situation. And I doubt there are many people who are willing/care to dig up any context/backstory to a particular situation and will just hit the like-button to the person they agree most to. And I don't assume everyone is an expert in politics, in which case most will like the idealistic point of view where everyone is happy.
And even if a conservative disagrees on a particular topic, it is very like they also have some liberal viewpoint in another topic in politics, which again, contributes to the majority voting where a liberal point of view is a mainstream. So whenever a conservative tries to discuss from their point of view, they can be expected to have more dislikes than likes due to a particular topic.

And if it's to keep happening. It is very likely very liberal tribalism will form since "majority" agrees to it.

Notice that a like/dislike system does not show each and every person's political standpoint. There can be cases where a conservative can have an authoritative point of view on one topic, and another conservative having a liberal viewpoint on the same topic as well. But in a different topic, they can have the opposite viewpoints.

A like/dislike system can also be used to silent others with a different point of view, due to the pressure of "majority".

TLDR: Liberal tribalism is likely to form due to a like/dislike system. It is less likely to form in a manga forum when politic isn't the main topics, but being a secondary topic in relation to a manga which tells about it.

Edit: There can be cases some people believe in being liberal is the right thing to do to the point they are calling a conservative a fascist, due to a particular point of view. And in worse case, a nazi. Even though it isn't true, but hey, the other side doesn't know the person's other political standpoints and likely doesn't want/care to know.

 

[Karsh]

@Cryotic I'll be honest, I don't care if some types of people will get more or less disliked than other types, I just want to see a like/dislike system to simply know how many people actually think positively or negatively about a given comment.

If I were to often be disliked, I wouldn't give a fuck - it wouldn't (or at least SHOULDN'T) affect me in any way and I'd just keep on making comments as usual without caring how many people agree or disagree with me.

The moment any moderators would actually try to make the likes/dislikes MATTER other than showing people's approval of a comment is the moment I'd tell the moderators to just fuck off and stop being retards.

"Many people dislike that person's comment" =/= "This comment should get censored"

Just make the like/dislike system in the simplest way ever. Don't fuck it up like Reddit did and instead give it NO OTHER FUNCTION than just showing people's negative or positive feelings towards comments in a numerical value.
Even implementing features such as "sorting by most liked" is probably a bad idea...

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

Holy crap I left too long

@Assassinart wait hold up I'm out of the loop wdym lesbian sex movement?

@LowSanity True, but in arguments about a like system, tribalism have been used as a counterargument which lead me to believe that it's bad in the context of online social media. I'm basically just arguing the validity of that.

 

[PantsMan]

I'm with most people above; tribalism itself is something inherent to social interactions, you can't really be pro or anti. Maybe you'd have a better argument regarding the negative aspects of too many people who don't challenge each other's opinions gathering in a single place.

@Cryotic

Liberal = Emotional and idealistic
Conservative = Rational and grounded

What a superficial, high-school level understanding of politics. Worse still, blaming rating system-induced echo chambers in general on something as unrelated as political beliefs.

 

[Kaelpie]

Tribalism is bad when it reaches fanatical levels. Like religion.

 

[Pika]

PEE IS DEFINITELY NOT STORED IN THE BALLS!! IT'S IN THE WALLS OF THE PEEPEE, THAT'S WHY IT SOMETIMES GROW BIG WHEN YOU NEED TO PEE!