Isekai de Skill wo Kaitai Shitara Cheat na Yome ga Zoushoku Shimashita: Gainen Kousa no Structure - Vol. 2 Ch. 7

[criver]

@gaigous I don't think much will change until the manga/anime industry does. You will always have the works targeted at the lowest common denominator since profit will always trump quality in the eyes of corporations and investors. That is not to say that there is currently no place for original works (e.g. Dungeon Meshi), or for quality productions targeted at a large audience (e.g. Ghibli), but I would argue that the ratio is very skewed. It seems it's a lot easier (and safer) to churn out the same (cheap) tried and tested formulaic works, that obviously will always have a large fanbase (desire for wish fulfillment applies to all people). On a side note, this has a parallel in both the movies and games industry (e.g. transformers, cod respectively). And it's not the isekai premise per se that makes these bad, it's the ease with which an inexperienced author (possibly with editorial pressure) can stumble into the pitfalls of the genre. It's a lot easier to substitute plot with random crap while keeping elements of wish fulfilment and still sell.
The question is though, are there ways to balance this skewed ratio, and if there are, what would those be. Now this is a hard question, but I believe that ideas from other media can be borrowed here. Specifically of indie games sponsored through various platform, that let more quality works emerge (mainly because they are not stifled under corporative policies for profit over quality). Unfortunately, I do not believe that this will solve the problem entirely, or that it will become mainstream anytime soon for manga/anime.

 

[gaigous]

@criver I've noticed much the same. Anime, Video Games, TV, Movies, Comics, LNs, books, etc, entertainment media as a whole will get a lot worse before it gets better IMO

The last time my anime itch was truly scratched was Fate/Zero, for video games it was Dragon Age: Origins, for TV it was Rick and Morty, for movies it was Deadpool, for comics it was Lucifer by Mike Carey, for LNs it was Dungeon Defense, and for books it was The Dresden Files.

Sturgeons Law is depressing asf.

 

[babontil]

@criver

"As for the actual content: I'm so friggin' sick of slave isekai junk. Screw defeating demon kings and enemy nations and corrupt churches. (Well, maybe not that last one.) What I'd really love to see is an isekai protagonist that goes all out against the whole institution of slavery. But there are only a handful of MCs that even seem to be genuinely uncomfortable with the concept."

Very rich discussion.


Never in my initial comment I complained about what you said. You're very insecure if you think what I said was directed specifically at you.

 

[criver]

@babontil

Never in my initial comment I complained about what you said.

Yeah, you did not, you were arguing with a strawman, asserting that said strawman was 'bitching', 'virtue signaling', or that he a lowly 'gaijin' supposedly wanted a word with the author.

You're very insecure if you think what I said was directed specifically at you.

@criver

*circus music intensifies*

...
Very rich discussion.

All I see is a person expressing his opinion about the (obvious) lack of originality. But you are up in arms to 'thought police' his comment for the perceived crimes of 'bitching' and 'virtue signaling' (while misdirecting it at me initially to boot). How ironic.

> Snide greentext remarks don't make for a good argument indeed.

 

[Danthefan]

Thank you Sweetie scans for picking this series up! I really enjoyed reading it, so I hope to read more of your quality content! Thanks again!

 

[scsa20]

Whoa! This manga is back! Yay! Need moar! (and thanks for picking it up!)

 

[eyescream007]

Thanks for the chapter!

 

[babontil]

@criVer

You tagged me first with your insecurity, defending a shit comment which richly amounts to "I don't like it" without giving any reason related to the storywriting.

>the character is shit because there is nothing to his character
>What I'd really love to see is an isekai protagonist that goes all out against the whole institution of slavery.
Apparently simply against slavery is enough to make him good, nevermind that he has nothing to his character.

Thanks for supporting the argument despite your insecurity in defending shit comments not even yours.

 

[tuatara1]

@criver

I'm really sorry you got dragged into such a BS debate because you took the time to respond to my original comment. I didn't expect anyone to lose their minds quite so thoroughly over a bit of venting about a tired cliché.

To set the damn record straight: I have no fundamental problem with stories using slavery as a plot device. But going back to that same well again and again is boring as hell. While, yes, I happen to think real-life slavery is a bad thing - as do the vast majority of Japanese people, incidentally - that's not even sort of the point.

All I was really saying is that I would love to see even one author take the risk to say, "Yeah, I'm gonna go the other way with this. Instead of my MC just accumulating yet another predictable slave-waifu harem, he'll challenge the whole premise. We'll tear it all down for once!"

If it's a choice between More of the Same and Challenging Convention, of course I'm going to want to see the latter at least *some* of the time. I can't really imagine not wanting to.

 

[criver]

@tuatara1
Don't worry, I half enjoy it. The other half is that I don't like the fact that people think it's ok to give positive comments a pass, but if you criticise the manga a vocal minority tries to lynch you.

@babontil

You tagged me first with your insecurity,

From "it wasn't directed at you" to "you tagged me first". The denial is strong.

richly amounts to "I don't like it" without giving any reason related to the storywriting.

Your outburst wouldn't be acceptable even if it was just an "I don't like it" comment, which btw you do not get to decide (I know you would love to, considering the amount of strawmanning). It's pretty ironic how you spoke out against 'thought policing', when you're the one guilty of it.

Apparently simply against slavery is enough to make him good, nevermind that he has nothing to his character.

Do you often misinterpret the words of somebody else to have the least coherent meaning that you could think of? Because it sure looks like you do.

Thanks for supporting the argument despite your insecurity

You keep regurgitating the same ad hominem over and over. Can't you put in a bit more creativity in your insults? Originality if you will. 😂

 

[welcome2atlantis]

Uh, this one seems like a high maintenance slave. MC will probably need much money for the upkeep... It hurts the wallet.

 

[babontil]

@tuatara1

Finally a discussion.
Unfortunately, it doesn't change the fact that the character would be one dimensional (just in a different way) and not complex, the novelty would wear off fast.

Not going against slavery doesn't automatically make the character bad.
Going against slavery doesn't automatically make the character good (nor interesting).

No other bad qualities of a manga gets singled out as much as slavery.
Singling out slavery is such a low hanging fruit that it actually detracts from the real the issues, bad writing and characterization.

By chapter 7 it is too early to judge, the fact that you already got disillusioned simply because of the slavery elements proves my point.
(Haven't read the LN/WN - it might well be just as shit as countless other Isekais out there - I'm not holding my breath. But that is beside the point.)

*All in fiction of course, real life slavery is a no no.

@criver

First one was not at you, second one was. Keep up.

Acceptable? By whom? Again with the thought policing.

You have already admitted you willingly walked in front of the hose, now you can't get over the fact you got wet.
Your crying emojis can't cover your insecurities.

 

[criver]

@babontil
Ah, so I am not allowed to dismantle your assertions because otherwise I would turn out to be insecure! Now I get it! /s
You should probably tone down the amount of projection.

Acceptable? By whom?

Willful ignorance concerning the fact that argumentative fallacies have no place in a discussion? Colour me impressed... not.

the hose

What would that be a metaphor for? Your inability to lead a discussion without resorting to fallacies?

Your crying emojis can't cover your insecurities.

I think that we've established that you don't have much to say on topic since you keep resorting to the exact same fallacy, repeatedly. It certainly doesn't help that all of your actual points have already been addressed more than a day ago.

 

[babontil]

@criver

You haven't answered any of them, nice try though.

 

[criver]

@babontil Feel free to quote any of your points that you believe were not adequately addressed. That is in case you are finally ready to have a discussion.

 

[babontil]

@criver

I've mentioned them and I don't have to serve it on a platter to you.

You read and answer them, or don't - not my problem.

You're the one that engaged me in the first place.

 

[criver]

@babontil
The thing is, I have already addressed all of your points, if you were unhappy with any of my arguments you were free to challenge them. Considering that you didn't do that, and that you're unwilling to do it, I take it that you didn't manage to find even one point that I haven't addressed adequately.
The fact that I engaged you first doesn't change anything. If anything we've seen yet again that you didn't have the intention to have a discussion in the first place.

 

[Synically]

@criver and @babontil take it to PMs (OMG is that really a thing in year of 2019?!,who would've thought) no one wants to see your poop throwing contest.

 

[criver]

@Synically Come on man, I need to practice those shit flinging skills, lest I get out of shape. Check out my analysis btw (a few pages back) and tell me what you think.

 

[phoenixir]

And so begins...the playing with master arc.