I think the word conscript may be throwing the commenters here for a loop, as suggested by @Rupopo and @maffo666militia seams like a more appropriate translation. In our modern world the word conscript tends to equate to fodder for the meat grinder because of what we know from industrial warfare and therefore have an extremely negative connotation, whereas the author seams to be referring to the high moral a unit of soldiers would have if they were defending their homeland. Fighting for ideals of home/family/friends one would be less likely to break and run. Conscription was very common in history and seen as a part of normal life doing ones duty to the state.
Rip didn't finish the novel, but if that's just something tacked on to the end, then it hardly matters.
Soudouki:
Okay, this one's just straight up my bad. This one's definitely a harem with dog merchant, maid, and Silk. The princess is irrelevant and doesn't count though, and I've only read the manga so I can't tell if Black Storm is going to be a real romantic interest or just a throwaway character
Mushoku:
No lie, been a few years since I read the manga, but I don't recall anything of the sort whatsoever. As someone who's only read the manga, I felt a pretty strong commitment between him and Eris.
KonoSuba:
OMEGA-Rip
My point still stands that there are isekai stories without harems, and most of the ones with harems could probably stand up just fine even without a harem tacked on. And my most important point is that it's not wrong to read an isekai manga with expectations of it being engaging and fun to read beyond softcore porn.
@twinklecake You are seeing it now. It might have been quite a sudden awakening for her as well, when she suddenly heard Almus is marrying Tetra, and she, herself, is going to marry some scumbag. Royals don't typically get to choose whom they marry, anyway, so even if you think Almus shouldn't count for much for her, it would still be a whole lot more than anyone else. They did spend time together under circumstances much more free than she has spent with other guys, I reckon.
There are a couple exceptions to the rule as I said before.
The Harem tag means to me that there are multiple girls chasing a single guy. That guy doesn't have to accept those feelings or tries to ignore it. I used 3 girls chasing a singular guy for minimum point to decide it's a harem because if there's already three, whats a couple more down the line.
For example To love-ru could give the description "a story about a guy trying to confess to his true love while other girls try to convince him to get together with them instead" but if you read it you know that it's a harem story with a TON of fan service
considering one of the chars tries to make him a "Harem King" so that all the girls are happy, It proves my point . (Do I have to spoiler this? Probs not but whatever)
Another example is Nisekoi considering the god knows how many girls are chasing after him, could be described as
"A story where an unwilling couple forced together trough an arranged marrige eventually truly fall in love" (again do I have to spoiler this?)
Where everyone knows that it's a slice of life manga that sometimes gives plot points so he could end the story since no one can think of ideas for a slice of life story forever.
Also since I've given my definition here are the rebuttals.
For world teacher
The wolf girl, The princess, The elf that hasn't been introduced yet in the manga probs more since I haven't read to deep into the novel
Moon-led Journey
Considering the speed the manga is going at and how the novel has been on hiatus they might never appear BUT going from the newest to the oldest: Touda/Tamaki, Sari, Sofia, Root, Mio, Tomoe
Bad writers gravitate to writing isekai stories. The isekai premise itself is NOT an excuse to write a bad story.
I agree with this as well. Three of my favorite JP novels are Isekai: No Game No life, Overlord, Moon Led Journey. I like reincarnation/travel to another world stories quite a bit with the CN and KR scenes as well, but since a few got super popular it became an easy way to get popular since it's incredibly easy to write down stories that have "unique" concepts that seem like they wouldn't be able to go far but are stretched incredibly far.
Another problem is that since some clear, CLEAR fetish material got accepted as popular, bad authors could use that fetish material without being branded as odd or out of place.
Since a few novels wrote a harem in and got popular, Bad authors could think "Harem=Popular"
As well as the Slave thing, I don't care how you put it, the only reason slaves exist in these novels is either as fetish material or to give the protagonist a moral high ground "Oh the MC is the only one treating the slave as an actual human being instead of livestock" Bad authors go with it.
But some writers VERY RARELY give good reasonings for slavery in the world they created, a good example of this is Sword Reincarnation:
The beastmen tribes were betrayed by another tribe. Not all beastmen are slaves only some of them
A bad author could have written it like this "They were slaves because racial discrimination" which is a valid reason, just not a good one.
And I'll say it again, there are exceptions, but those exceptions normally don't focus on romance in general.
Also as a Final note, I don't hate harems, I would not care at all if this manga went with a massive harem, I was just stating that for the people complaining about there being harem elements in a manga that had tags stating that there was a harem and making a point that, if you're reading an isekai there's probably going to be a harem.
@twinklecake
It's been subtly hinted at throughout the series, Chapters 10+11 for example could be considered signs. as well as the fact that he's basically her only friend for 3 years and had constant contact with her
Also the reason she's probably saying this right now is probably because her father still hasn't told her about the plan for Almus to duel the other guy to see if Almus is truly fit to be king, since they're probably planning to figure out more details before giving her the news, OR not tell her at all due to the fact that there may be leaks to Almus about their plans and the king clearly stated that Almus shouldn't know.
With regards to Moon-led Journey, I caught up to where ever the novel was at a year-and-a-half ago and I'd swear to god that no characters except Mio and Tomoe make any tangible advances towards the main character. Just being associated with him doesn't count. There needs to be real effort and desire to be a romantic interest in a story.
As for World Teacher, are you talking about Reese as the "Princess"? Cuz I 100% don't feel romance from her. Respect and gratitude are not enough in my opinion. It can't be lust either. It has to be a character that genuinely wants to spend the rest of their lives together with the protagonist.
definitely is a true harem, just check out the LN or the wikia page no debate here
World Teacher
is also another true harem with the princess, wolf girl, and an elf girl. The elf girl was left out of the manga but she met MC when he was 7 years old but had to go back to her village. The manga isnt even close to where he sleeps with all of them but it does happen.
Regardless, you called out a bunch of true harem examples....
Well even if you take out Touda/Tamaki (hasn't been given enough screen time since HIATUS) , Sari (I mean she was kind of given to makoto by force from the demon king), and Sophia (Root gave her to makoto), there's still Root, who I'm pretty sure from the first time makoto meets them he tries to seduce makoto, sure he rejects them because he's a guy at the time but he does change into a female later on
As for World Teacher
It's been around 2 years since I read the novel but I could've sworn that Reese tries to get together with the MC after the forced marriage thing I mean it seems pretty heavily hinted at in chapter 16 of the manga and she actually says she loves him at the end of the chapter? I don't know if it can get any clearer than that.
I've read past chapter 300 of the Moon-led wn, and I do not get any passionate romantic vibes from any characters besides the two main girls. I'd like to confirm this on the wikia, but I can't see anything there anymore. It looks like it's been nuked at some point.
Also, yeah I made some mistakes there, but there are ones that aren't harems too. My point was to show that the tag really isn't perfect. Most of the time, you have to read the light novel to find the harems. So if I like the story before it ever gets to that point, then the story was perfectly standing on its own without the harem stapled on. This means that harems are not necessary to creating an isekai story. Harems are only prominent due to how many writers rely on it as a crutch, so it's not wrong to criticize its usage just because "What did you expect? This is an isekai. Of course there's a harem."
I 100% don't count Root as a harem participant. His/her love for Makoto is played for laughs on literally every occasion. And he/she's certainly not displayed any level of determination/commitment that would imply serious romantic interest. Feels more like lust for his old boyfriend if you ask me.
As for World Teacher, maybe I'm giving the author too much credit. In any competently written story, Reese would not join his harem. I suppose I was projecting my expectations onto the story in this case.
Jury's still out for Moon-led though, which I will stand strong that it's a love triangle and not a harem.
@Aretheus
The raws have reached 297 for Moon led from what I have found so i'm not entirely sure how you've read past 300 but if there's a site that gives the raws PLEASE SEND ME THEEEM
Anyway I don't believe anyone said that Harem's were needed in an isekai story? I just said that if there is an isekai story with a male protagonist, there is a high chance of being a harem, written into the story, It's not a bad thing. ANYWAY I think everyone can agree that any site that has tags is never perfect especially when there's a lot of content.
And for moon led
I mean he's had some serious talks about it with tomoe particularly in chapter 106 adding to the fact I think thats how his personality was made, Laughs in front of Makoto, serious behind the scenes
@tibz
That's not entirely correct either, as a militia doesn't leave their hometown (which is where the higher morale comes from). These are conscripts who are brought from their homeland to fight for the nation, which in medieval times was not something that mattered as much to the average person.
Additionally, the author's apparent belief that teaching the villagers Kendo (a sport with rules) would be a pure benefit, leads me to believe he doesn't really understand warfare very much. Sure they would be more familiar with holding a sword, but there are also things that an opponent in an actual sparring match would do that are illegal moves in Kendo that they would not be expecting, causing hesitation.
It also probably has a lot to do with the misconception that European knights just swung their swords around and relied on their armor to keep them alive, while Asian swordsmen had amazing techniques that would allow them to easily defeat any opponent (neither of which are true). There was a lot more parity in training between European Knights and Japanese Samurai than most people realize.
@chibit I probably just forgot the chapter number that I read up to. I was thinking it was 350 but maybe it was 250.
Also, "Also what were you expecting from a Isekai manga?" was the line that got to me. I do have expectations of my isekai manga considering how much good web/light novel content there is left unadapted right now. "Katahane no Riku," "The Magnificent Battle Records of A Former Noble Lady," and "My Death Flags Show No Sign of Ending" are all masterpiece novels up for grabs for any mangaka out there. So if they aren't adapting them, I'd assume that whatever they are adapting must be even better.
You may say that this expectation is stupid and masochistic. And I would agree that I am just setting myself up for disappointment, but it pays off when I stumble upon manga that I consider fantastic like "Common Sense of a Duke's Daughter" and "World Strongest Rearguard".
Also, you say that harems aren't a bad thing, and I'd agree. I will, however, say that they work the same way that isekai does in that bad writers are drawn to using them, and I'd very much like them to stop.
@Aretheus
Honestly, you need to differentiate between Otome Isekai manga and generic Isekai, youre likely to get more developed characters from the former while the later usually devolves into the author masturbating onto the readers face.
but yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but to be truly honest, you have to admit that Isekai is a genre filled to the brim with garbage
@maffo666@Kamelpov Not to put too fine a point on it, both of you are wrong. As you read this, I want you to remember the examples of the Varangian Guard and the Swiss Pikemen.
Concerning mercenaries vs conscripts, mercenaries are always better fighters than conscripts simply because fighting is their profession. Somebody who is conscripted by definition spends the vast majority of their lives doing something that is not fighting, whereas mercenaries are always either fighting, preparing to fight, or traveling between fights with occasional spots of downtime. Conscripts were never favored because they were better fighters; they were favored because it's a shitload cheaper to drag a bunch of farmers and tradesmen out of their homes, toss them whatever random weapons and armor you have in your armories, then haul them off to the field of battle than to pay professional soldiers. Certain battle formations and techniques are better than others at making conscripts into effective military forces (Greek phalanx), but any commanding officer worth their title would work damn hard to make sure he had a core force of professional fighters to do the heavy lifting in a battle. If possible, he would have nationals from his home country that he had trained and outfitted himself, but if not he would hire mercenaries.
As for the reliability of mercenaries, there needs to be a distinction between opportunists and professionals. Opportunists are the group that most people think of when they hear the word "mercenary"; people who are fundamentally lazy, and thus willing to kill people and take their stuff rather than work an honest day's labor. Even taking into account their fundamental untrustworthiness, there are many tricks and techniques to ensure they do what you tell them to, at least in the short term. One of the most common was placing them far away from your forces at the end of the supply line. If they started to get uppity, cut off supplies until they settle down. If you were smart enough to hire a small enough number so they don't outnumber your troops, then the worst case scenario is they desert and fuck off to the wild blue yonder.
Professional mercenaries, on the other hand, are some of the most singularly reliable troops you will ever find. See, professional mercs are making a career out of this, and at the absolute top of their list of priorities is making sure they have a good reputation (every merc wants to survive, but professional mercs subordinate that will to their reputation to a certain extent). If professional mercs don't have a good reputation, they get shit jobs with shit pay, and that's unacceptable to careerists of ANY profession. In a profession where you fight and die on a regular basis, that state of affairs is absolutely intolerable. So as long as you deal with professional mercs honestly and abide by the terms of the contract, professional mercs are frequently more reliable than state soldiers, because doing the job well gives them the reputation they're looking for. A state soldier may be led astray by politics and ideology, but a professional merc who fights for coin and reputation is immune to those temptations.
@boag Considering that "My Death Flags Show No Sign Of Ending" takes place in a final fantasy-esque JRPG, I'm not sure that's a hard, fast rule. Moon-led Journey is also the standard style of isekai and it's an absolute masterpiece in both storytelling and character writing.
My logic is that if 5-10 authors managed to write some of the best books of all time using the isekai premise, how hard could it be to expect some other new prophetic writer to join the fray? I loath the idea that 95% of isekai is shit, so we might as well just keep eating it up.
