Isekai Kenkokuki - Vol. 8 Ch. 57

[undeed]

Still the scene was a bit silly: Theres a reason why nobles even when corrupt are hard to get rid of. Not only they tend to have considerable influence, but is pressed enough can cause a civil war specially with a newcomer King that even neutral nobles might be unsure to follow or not yet

Would have been more reasonable to get rid either one by one or even in secret, being that aggresive will make those nobles fight like cornered rats because they have nothing to lose and even other nobles might become afraid of becoming "traitors" as well once the new King deems them no longer useful/necessary andstart plotting the "accidental demise" of the new King lest he decides to do more purges later

Right now the MC looks like a complete autocrat, no matter how good his intentions are

see, I was in the same mind as this

sure it is a long awaited goal and reward for the journey,
yes, the king already had a deal with Almus
but still, to be like "gimme your daughter and throne" "yeah, sure, here" "now, off to execution" is a bit too comical

 

[shyevsa]

Still the scene was a bit silly: Theres a reason why nobles even when corrupt are hard to get rid of. Not only they tend to have considerable influence, but is pressed enough can cause a civil war specially with a newcomer King that even neutral nobles might be unsure to follow or not yet

Would have been more reasonable to get rid either one by one or even in secret, being that aggresive will make those nobles fight like cornered rats because they have nothing to lose and even other nobles might become afraid of becoming "traitors" as well once the new King deems them no longer useful/necessary andstart plotting the "accidental demise" of the new King lest he decides to do more purges later

Right now the MC looks like a complete autocrat, no matter how good his intentions are

I learn this in the other series about kingdom building. forgot the actual saying.
but this kind of atrocity are necessary because the alternative are only making the new king grow slower or worse make everything more chaotic. but this card can only be used once and never again.

 

[WhimsiCat]

Still the scene was a bit silly: Theres a reason why nobles even when corrupt are hard to get rid of. Not only they tend to have considerable influence, but is pressed enough can cause a civil war specially with a newcomer King that even neutral nobles might be unsure to follow or not yet

Would have been more reasonable to get rid either one by one or even in secret, being that aggresive will make those nobles fight like cornered rats because they have nothing to lose and even other nobles might become afraid of becoming "traitors" as well once the new King deems them no longer useful/necessary andstart plotting the "accidental demise" of the new King lest he decides to do more purges later

Right now the MC looks like a complete autocrat, no matter how good his intentions are

Either he take it slow and they can scurry about causing more damage, or he take this blitz to quickly wipe them out to finally be able to run the kingdom properly without these rats gnawing at it.
That's why he take the throne and announce the purge in one go.

As for that 'oh no they might try to assassinate him out of fear' - yeah, sure, Dibel was able to survive this long but somehow the more competent Almus is at risk eh.
Don't forget his blessing, the more people believe in him as their leader, the stronger he get.
Dibel faction was the strongest before Almus, and they got curbstomped already (even Dibel himself, who has a blessing, in 1 v 1) what do you think these 'other nobles' can do?

 

[Shori948]

I learn this in the other series about kingdom building. forgot the actual saying.
but this kind of atrocity are necessary because the alternative are only making the new king grow slower or worse make everything more chaotic. but this card can only be used once and never again.

I think I know what series you're talking about. And yes, that series just straight up quoting Machiavelli, which is also what this series is going for imo:

Any cruelty has to be executed at once, so that the less it is tasted, the less it offends; while benefits must be dispensed little by little, so that they will be savored all the more. -Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

 

[Tatsuya-Kai]

I'll be slightly fair to the writing here, these Nobles have been so evil even the peseants know their evil so he'd have backing on this publicly but yeah it would eventually be seen as autocratic/despotic/tyrannical.

Only by modern standards, people love to point to the likes of vlad the impaler and ivan the terrible who basically are famous for doing this but the truth of the matter is both monarchs were well loved by the people themselves as they were treated pretty well by said monarchs, today both vlad and ivan are revered as heroes in their homelands.

 

[YoraeRasante]

I think I know what series you're talking about. And yes, that series just straight up quoting Machiavelli, which is also what this series is going for imo:

Any cruelty has to be executed at once, so that the less it is tasted, the less it offends; while benefits must be dispensed little by little, so that they will be savored all the more. -Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

I remember that, but I forgot where it was so I thought it had been here.

That said, does this even count here?

Sure, some of the older nobles may be against someone so young, and even worse not raised in their established society, becoming the ruler.

But not only is the leader of the group he is condemning as traitors is clearly known as outright cruel and evil, only staying in place due to their personal power, power that he proved to be superior in,

He has confirmation from the opposite side that they are traitors, so it is not even something they can cast reasonable doubt on. Not one anyone would take seriously at least, not when he had been on the battlefield and they just stood safely at home.

And, as he himself said when they entered the town there, their greatest weapon will be public opinion.

 

[Dwarfy2k]

Only by modern standards, people love to point to the likes of vlad the impaler and ivan the terrible who basically are famous for doing this but the truth of the matter is both monarchs were well loved by the people themselves as they were treated pretty well by said monarchs, today both vlad and ivan are revered as heroes in their homelands.

I'd bet alot of money that Vlad and Ivans people didn't have it good, armies conquering and all that takes young manpower.

History always gets written by the victor so ofcourse it'll be spun that the peasants had it good.

That said by Medievil standards Traitors are still traitors also the average peasent may never even realise if a lord changes. This plan ofcourse only works if all the nobility are in that coronation room which they weren't so this will/should become a big issue for MC but knowing this series writing won't.

 

[Kaarme]

Right now the MC looks like a complete autocrat, no matter how good his intentions are

He is a complete autocrat now... That's what absolute monarchy is. It's also the only thing all the people in the country understand. However, the previous king was a somewhat weak autocrat who allowed various local nobles to get too strong, making the country as a whole too weak for its own good. If Almus looks too soft, nobody will respect him and things will get unnecessarily difficult. Even his own wife gave him a lecture on the subject. So, if he appears really ruthless right off the bat, few will dare to underestimate him, domestically or abroad. Later he can make all kinds of reforms in order to combat corruption, which is an integral part of all autocracies.

 

[Nunally]

Still the scene was a bit silly: Theres a reason why nobles even when corrupt are hard to get rid of. Not only they tend to have considerable influence, but is pressed enough can cause a civil war specially with a newcomer King that even neutral nobles might be unsure to follow or not yet

Would have been more reasonable to get rid either one by one or even in secret, being that aggresive will make those nobles fight like cornered rats because they have nothing to lose and even other nobles might become afraid of becoming "traitors" as well once the new King deems them no longer useful/necessary andstart plotting the "accidental demise" of the new King lest he decides to do more purges later

Right now the MC looks like a complete autocrat, no matter how good his intentions are

I think its gonna be okay, they are charged with treason, its the highest capital offense, even a king cant easily escape judgement if proven. Everyone will see Almus purge as justifiable.

 

[Bearil]

Either he take it slow and they can scurry about causing more damage, or he take this blitz to quickly wipe them out to finally be able to run the kingdom properly without these rats gnawing at it.
That's why he take the throne and announce the purge in one go.

As for that 'oh no they might try to assassinate him out of fear' - yeah, sure, Dibel was able to survive this long but somehow the more competent Almus is at risk eh.
Don't forget his blessing, the more people believe in him as their leader, the stronger he get.
Dibel faction was the strongest before Almus, and they got curbstomped already (even Dibel himself, who has a blessing, in 1 v 1) what do you think these 'other nobles' can do?

Problem is that once a new King is crowned, their power is at their lowest, specially when no one swore fealty to them yet. Add that the MC is technically a peasant and him acting as an autocrat from the very start SHOULD have serious consecuences unless plot armor strikes hard, and what is he gonna do? Execute the majority of nobles that will see him then as a tyranic usurper that somehow wormed his way to the crown? Thats the perfect recipe of having a civil war on which the country will destroy itself. Wining a war is not the same as ruling a country, and even if some mentions Machiavelli ideas do remember he did fell in disgrace and died forgotten by his peers

I think its gonna be okay, they are charged with treason, its the highest capital offense, even a king cant easily escape judgement if proven. Everyone will see Almus purge as justifiable.

They can just defend themselves by arguing that they were accused wrongily so that the new tyrant could get rid of them. Trials take time and you dont need too many nobles on their side believing them and rebelling against the usurper to get a civil war in your hands.

 

[WhimsiCat]

Problem is that once a new King is crowned, their power is at their lowest, specially when no one swore fealty to them yet. Add that the MC is technically a peasant. Acting as an autocrat from the very start SHOULD have serious consecuences unless plot armor strikes, and what is he gonna do? Execute the majority of nobles that will see him as a tyranic usurper that somehow wormed his way to the crown? Thats the perfect recipe of having a civil war on which the country will destroy itself. Winning a war is not the same as ruling a country, and even if some mentions Machiavelli ideas do remember he did fell in disgrace and died forgotten by his peers

Before a kingdom exist, every 'king' was a 'peasant'. Guess what do they usually call someone taking down a tyrant like Dibel? a hero.

Previously you suggested to take them out slowly one at a time, but did you not consider that maybe once a few of them die the rest will realize what's up and start a civil war anyway? With more time to prepare they'd cause a lot more damage even if he win.

The civil war was inevitable as long as Dibel is alive, all your 'this scene is silly' reasonings pretty much ignored what happened in the story so far (including the many times we've seen Dibel faction being chipped down from the 'considerable influence' they had at the start)
Like, did YOU even think about the scenario you suggest? We've seen multiple times what kind of person Dibel and his faction is, do you somehow seriously think they wouldn't eventually cause a civil war?

They can just defend themselves by arguing that they were accused wrongily so that the new tyrant could get rid of them. Trials take time and you dont need too many nobles to believe them and rebelling against the usurper to get a civil war in your hands

Except the testimony was from prince Carlo. You know, the one who was invading the country JUST YESTERDAY?
If they refute that, they're accusing a prince of Domorgar of lying.

Another thing: While going back to check there's the chapter where Bernhard's health plummet after he lost Blessing of Kings benefit from Rigar (also Bernhard sent a letter to Domorgar king, so there's solid evidence)
So Blessing of Kings not only increase the king's power but also his subordinates. Once Almus remove Rigar he'd be the only one left in the country with that blessing, so there's even less reason for nobles to even think about antagonizing him.

EDIT: https://mangadex.org/chapter/88ee6236-b178-4b36-a3bc-75f0d54280be/11
Apparently Almus's BoK is an evolved one, so once the news that his version buff his subordinate come out, nobles would be scrambling to bow to him if anything.

 

[AnotherDuck]

Problem is that once a new King is crowned, their power is at their lowest, specially when no one swore fealty to them yet.

That's kind of the thing, though. He doesn't lack power, allies, or influence. He has all the things necessary for a successful coup d'état, and this was planned with the previous king, so it isn't even that. It's just a proper succession.

 

[ciera]

Problem is that once a new King is crowned, their power is at their lowest, specially when no one swore fealty to them yet.

its been a long ass time but the whole reason Alnus went on a military campaign in the first place was to gain a single BIG achievement to justify the king’s plan of handing over the country (and his daughter) to him. that’s why it wasn’t comical that that was precisely what he “demanded” upon returning amid such pomp and fanfare. and it’s under that atmosphere of celebration and it’s fleeting nature that alnus conducted his purge. contrary to the point you made earlier, it is actually at the moment that an administration changes that a purge MUST be performed. not just to show the strength of the new administration but to unify the country under it. that’s why alnus and the king planned this all in advance and why alnus was in a hurry back after his victory. because the window of opportunity afforded by the celebration and the advantage of SURPRISE that the sudden transfer of power gave him was just small enough to allow him to effectively carry out his purge and properly consolidate power.

 

[DrAndra]

I'm going to talk something out of topic here, but the mangaka decision of drawing almus is so weird. All of his subordinates show changes, they grow. But almus himself almost always stay the same, I don't even feel that he grown any inches on his height. He's supposed to be the reincarnator here, he's the oldest. Yet it seems like he never aged past twelve

 

[SunSun]

I learn this in the other series about kingdom building. forgot the actual saying.
but this kind of atrocity are necessary because the alternative are only making the new king grow slower or worse make everything more chaotic. but this card can only be used once and never again.

Yeah from Realist Hero, and he himself was quoting or paraphrasing Machiavellian.
Once and done, because more than that IS tryannical.

 

[dereth]

I think the translation might be lacking at the end of the chapter. A decision that he is sure to regret? Then why do it? If he said that he'd feel guilty, that would be one thing. But doing something knowing he will regret it? Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Bearil]

its been a long ass time but the whole reason Alnus went on a military campaign in the first place was to gain a single BIG achievement to justify the king’s plan of handing over the country (and his daughter) to him. that’s why it wasn’t comical that that was precisely what he “demanded” upon returning amid such pomp and fanfare. and it’s under that atmosphere of celebration and it’s fleeting nature that alnus conducted his purge. contrary to the point you made earlier, it is actually at the moment that an administration changes that a purge MUST be performed. not just to show the strength of the new administration but to unify the country under it. that’s why alnus and the king planned this all in advance and why alnus was in a hurry back after his victory. because the window of opportunity afforded by the celebration and the advantage of SURPRISE that the sudden transfer of power gave him was just small enough to allow him to effectively carry out his purge and properly consolidate power.

Even so if any general that performs great on a war gets somehow rights to the throne is ridiculous to say the least. Im not asking Game of Thrones political moves but that feels like extremely forced without the MC being anything less than a national hero with the backing of an important fraction of nobles specially when they are the ones with military power unlike the King. Also doing administration changes is not the same that executing a portion of the nobility as your first order, even purging elements that are averse to him should take time and at least be relatively reasonabe or you risk to make it look "hes succeeding because the plot say so otherwise he should be dead already", its not good to abuse suspension of believability

Before a kingdom exist, every 'king' was a 'peasant'. Guess what do they usually call someone taking down a tyrant like Dibel? a hero.

Tell that to any noble in any setting that is not a comedic one and youll get sent to the gallows for being an smartass. Thats like saying that monkeys are also humans because we descended from them. Even if its tecnically true thats an irrelevant point, nobles rule and peasants obey and thats the "natural order" in medieval settings. Depending on the setting peasants are might be even not considered human but assets like having 2 legged cattle

Even if its good to have the peasants on your side, the important part is having the NOBLES on your side, since they are the ones with the military might. Thats like trying to rule a country with the military aiming for a coup the moment you start ruling

 

[Glumsage]

Call the inquisitors, tis purge time.

 

[ciera]

I think the translation might be lacking at the end of the chapter. A decision that he is sure to regret? Then why do it? If he said that he'd feel guilty, that would be one thing. But doing something knowing he will regret it? Doesn't make any sense to me.

a purge is messy messy business. not just your adversaries and their lackeys but their immediate family and close associates. alot of collateral damage. but it has to be done

without the MC being anything less than a national hero with the backing of an important fraction of nobles

thats EXACTLY what he is though. and at this point in the story Alnus has ENOUGH support and independent military might and legitimacy as the heir CHOSEN BY THE KING to enforce his claim. dibel is humiliated and emasculated and running headless with his strategist dead. this whole act is to make the other noble houses fall in line

 

[xanketsu]

Remember what the Griffon said:
"You just want to mate with the girl, right?"

The throne is just the extra. XD