Isekai ni Teni Shitara Yama no Naka datta. Handou de Tsuyo Sayori mo Kaitekisa o Erabi Mashita - Ch. 25.5

[kaminomikan]

ah yeah... the trash...

 

[Seinvolf]

Thank u always for ur great work...
^^...

 

[Romisterie]

creepy ...... and I have read the webnovel, This manga adaptation made it creepier

 

[Firemorfox]

what kind of ptsd did the author have over a sister lmao

 

[Jayswing103]

Nani the fuck?
The sister isn't the only one psycho.
If anyone gonna be his waifu, it's gonna be Ash!
Also, im happy to learn that sis gonna die soon 😏
But does that apply to Jin?
No right since he just caught up with that lightball's mistake.
Also, I can't wait for that lightball to find out that they fucked up.

Ash best girl!

 

[stilgar]

The blonde people are the sister's friends. The female friend created a fake puppet version of the MC.

I don't see why that is so difficult for people to see

 

[ArcLife]

Wow sister's friend is a yandere wonder what will happen if she meets the real Jin

 

[Tanatama]

Arguably the one that is a slave to the heroine is the most "true" jin, since he presumably lacks all those divine blessings, life-changing experiences, and freedom, that our jin has. In conclusion, this manga follows a fake.

Ooo this is an interesting brainer. It is something to think about whether a person isekaid is still the same from when they were still in their original world.

In my thoughts a memory card who has all the fundamental aspects of the original from Japan is still technically a copy isn't it? He's still not exactly Jin as this puppet just happens to have the ingredients to be similar to Jin, but you could say, in terms of inheriting a real being's ego that the puppet can very much still able to exist as a "true individual".

For the last speculation, saying that the one we're following is a fake kind of discredits human's nature to experience: "Despite everything its still you" y'know. But! If we do want something more concrete, if we want to guess "How" jin was transported, honestly I'd bet on spontaneous teleportation since his bags, food and stuff remained intact with him when woke up in the mountains.

Another thing that can assure us that our Jin isn't a fake is that based on ch2, we recall the God's offered our Jin power "in proportional to the lifespan he had left on Earth". This directly coins the narrative the fact that his current prowess were all extracted from "earth Jin's" lifespan, making him indeed the actual Jin.

 

[feha]

Ooo this is an interesting brainer. In my thoughts a memory card who has all the fundamental aspects of the original from Japan is still technically a copy isn't it? You could say that the puppet can exist as a "true individual" in terms of inheriting a real being's ego but he's still not exactly Jin as this puppet just happens to have the ingredients to be similar to Jin.

On the other hand, saying that the one we're following is a fake kind of discredits human's nature to experience. "Despite everything its still you" y'know?

But, if we want something more concrete, based on ch2, we recall the God's offered our Jin power "in proportional to the lifespan he had left on Earth", directly coined by the narrative that his current prowess were all extracted from "earth Jin's" lifespan.

I were mostly being tongue-in-cheek, lightly referencing the concepts of "ship of theseus" (well, not so much this one, but somewhat related as of its ideas were involved in "whether the meatsuit matters" (to refer to a future point in this list)), "continuity of consciousness" and how it might relate to teleportation (quantum or otherwise) as well as sci-fi clones/androids/uploaded consciousness (and additionally "does the meatsuit matter? is it ok if it was newly created?"), "no man can stand in the same river twice, for it's no longer the same river, and he's not the same man." (a saying, relating to the mutability of everything with vague similarities to ship of theseus - this is what that "conclusion" was poking fun with btw).

And I was also constantly having fun dancing around (in a way that I hoped to raise those ideas through their absence where one would expect them to at least be mentioned) the whole "but people have a soul!!!" and "without freedom and agency over your thoughts and opinions you can't be considered the/a person, so if you are under a magical geas forcing you to be favorable to someone you would otherwise hate and overall be under their whim and unable to disobey or disagree, then it is not truly considered to be you and lacks the substance that makes you, you!" arguments that would normally quite succinctly be used to claim that the puppet is the fake: "because it is a puppet without any will (where 'will' actually refers to agency, as it actually absolutely has a will and is in all regards jin, but with a geas twisting his personality)".
Particularly as the soul-argument is entirely impossible to argue neither against nor for, and only serves to say "let's invent this variable that wasn't copied". Only argument I could really return with then would be "and let's say it was copied as well!"


Because if I were serious about the topic, I would first have to say we lack enough info to make a claim. And second if asked to discuss it anyway, I would say that they are their own individuals, that while they were are one point identical and one-and-the-same they immediately branched off and diverged over time. Rather significantly at that, as one person was literally immediately divinely geased into having personality (and I don't know if it would be worse if that only extends to his actions and he is screaming madly inside as his body does things against his will, or worse if it actually changed what he thinks and feels and changed his personality - or at least preferences and opinions/feelings - on a deep level...) to be made to serve some girl.

Basically, that they both were jin at the point of divergence, and subsequently diverged to each be different jins (the same man and river, and all that). So they are entirely separate people, but they are also both the same jin from japan.

 

[lumica]

So puppet Jin is a robot (golem, if we wanna make it fantasy) with inserted memory card. But are we sure it's Jean's own memory in the puppet, or other people's memory of who they think of as "Jin" that's inside since even puppet Jin himself looks dull 🤔

Also psycho sis knows his lil bro hates woman but either she doesn't realize he hates her too or she purposely made him hate woman in general so she can monopolize him as her slave. Either way she's definitely not right in the head.

 

[Tanatama]

I were mostly being tongue-in-cheek, lightly referencing the concepts of "ship of theseus"

Yeah that's what I thought you were referencing! Its one of my fave brainers honestly.

And I was also constantly having fun dancing around (in a way that I hoped to raise those ideas through their absence where one would expect them to at least be mentioned) the whole "but people have a soul!!!"

Because your whole idea was focused on ego and individualism and how a memory makes an individual, I believed using the "soul" argument seemed redundant haha.

If asked to discuss it anyway, I would say that they are their own individuals, that while they were are one point identical and one-and-the-same they immediately branched off and diverged over time. —So they are entirely separate people, but they are also both the same jin from japan.

That could be it as well that they're both the "true" Jin. It does make me wonder how they both would fare if ever they meet. The possible sympathy for the puppet and our Jin's desire to remain uninvolved with anything that involved his sister would probably conflict.

 

[Namelessmoreless]

Be hold~ the living segs doll of MC . Damn she is crazy and thirsty😂

 

[bearybrown]

Man, this is a call back to the chapters 3 years ago. No wonder it feel so out of place when they change the character details.

 

[Dragon-Trainer]

Fairly sure they are saying that there are 2 jins, now. One that randomly appeared at the mountains, and another that was created as a result of a wish/power requested to the gods from one of the heroes.

If you care about continuity of consciousness, it is a bit up in the air whether the continuous consciousness is the one in the mountains, the one given as a power, the one still in japan, or neither of them. My guess would be that there is either one in japan, or that guy spontaneously teleported into mountains - but for the latter odds are that transmigration is a hickup in your consciousness anyway.

If all you care about is the id, ego, superego, ood, personality, memories, identity, or whatever - and not about the continuity - then there are literally 2 jins in this world now (because this was described as a "puppet that can read memories", meaning it is all that matters to be a person - makes sense since otherwise her blessing would not fulfill what she asked for and the gods wouldn't be divine or gods). Identical in all aspects from the onset, and only diverging from what they acquired and experienced from thereon.
So arguably the one that is a slave to the heroine is the most "true" jin, since he presumably lacks all those divine blessings, life-changing experiences, and freedom, that our jin has. In conclusion, this manga follows a fake.

You really went deep on this one…


Ok then, Following that logic, I’d argue that the “puppet” Jin, is just that, A puppet, hollow shell, lights and clockwork. Not only is it not a living breathing thing but it also (probably) can’t make decisions on it’s own, nor can it exist without the summoner. Meaning if the summoner dies it would be unsummon and it can probably be summoned and unsummoned at will as it is an ability. It is nothing more than a fake being made of magic power.

And on that note, WTF 😳 They are all bat sh!t crazy. “Birds of a feather flock together” I guess… Like seriously, what was that ball of light thinking. Allowing someone to create a foe human as an ability is not only creepy but also not good for the psyche of the user, not to mention trespasses into the territory of god.

P.s. Also if you want to go down the rabbit hole of who is real, then it would be “where is the soul” and if you don’t believe in souls then, they are all “fake” as their corpses are dead in Japan and they are all clones/copies of said corpses, as only their souls/consciousnesses were brought over into the world.
(Edit: ok so someone pointed out that Jim was brought over with his stuff, which I had over looked. That leaves a few options, one is he and his stuff was copied, two the author “over looked it” for story sake (he needs supplies to survive), three when everyone was body snatched the summer put empty corpses in their place, or four they just went missing. however I can’t see four happening as it could cause issues with space time/dimension as it would be interfering with “our” world which is something that they don’t want, which is why they only summon those who are about to die. I personally think two is most likely, however if you want story continuity then I’d go with one, but personally, I like (in a dark twisted kind of way) the idea of three, that they just made a bunch of corpses to mangle, just because it super f-ed up and doesn’t really fit their personalities. Tho I guess it would be all on the light ball not the rest of them so who knows.)

Also I want to say that we’re really going way too deep into this.

 

[Dragon-Trainer]

I don't see why that is so difficult for people to see

It’s the fact that if you’re picking up where you left off, it makes no sense without context of rereading from the beginning.

 

[feha]

You really went deep on this one…


Ok then, Following that logic, I’d argue that the “puppet” Jin, is just that, A puppet, hollow shell, lights and clockwork. Not only is it not a living breathing thing but it also (probably) can’t make decisions on it’s own, nor can it exist without the summoner. Meaning if the summoner dies it would be unsummon and it can probably be summoned and unsummoned at will as it is an ability. It is nothing more than a fake being made of magic power.

You forgot that the ability is to have jin [and not "a puppet of jin"], so said "puppet" is a fully full human, with his memories, personality, etc. Plus some magical slave geas to ensure he is favorable to her and doesn't disobey her - but a generic isekai slave doesn't stop being their person jsut because they are enslaved, do they?

Like seriously, what was that ball of light thinking. Allowing someone to create a foe human as an ability is not only creepy but also not good for the psyche of the user, not to mention trespasses into the territory of god.

They are gods, of course their blessings go into the territory of the divine.

P.s. Also if you want to go down the rabbit hole of who is real, then it would be “where is the soul” and if you don’t believe in souls then, they are all “fake” as their corpses are dead in Japan and they are all clones/copies of said corpses, as only their souls/consciousnesses were brought over into the world.

"and let's say it [the soul] was copied as well!"

(Edit: ok so someone pointed out that Jim was brought over with his stuff, which I had over looked. That leaves a few options, one is he and his stuff was copied, two the author “over looked it” for story sake (he needs supplies to survive), three when everyone was body snatched the summer put empty corpses in their place, or four they just went missing. however I can’t see four happening as it could cause issues with space time/dimension as it would be interfering with “our” world which is something that they don’t want, which is why they only summon those who are about to die. I personally think two is most likely, however if you want story continuity then I’d go with one, but personally, I like (in a dark twisted kind of way) the idea of three, that they just made a bunch of corpses to mangle, just because it super f-ed up and doesn’t really fit their personalities. Tho I guess it would be all on the light ball not the rest of them so who knows.)

Also I want to say that we’re really going way too deep into this.

I would guess both jins appeared alongside their stuff.

And it would be easier to simply create the "body to mangle" in the local world (the isekai), opt to not mangle it, and then copy the information making up his consciousness into them. Than it is to move his body (made out of matter) between worlds!, create a body to mangle in the original world, and then do the same "extra body and copy the information" step anyway for the second jin. Also would have more consistency if they did the same thing for both jins, instead of having to bother with doing one one way, and the other another way.

 

[Godc0re]

Wait, what?

 

[antipothis]

So puppet Jin is a robot (golem, if we wanna make it fantasy) with inserted memory card. But are we sure it's Jean's own memory in the puppet, or other people's memory of who they think of as "Jin" that's inside since even puppet Jin himself looks dull 🤔

Also psycho sis knows his lil bro hates woman but either she doesn't realize he hates her too or she purposely made him hate woman in general so she can monopolize him as her slave. Either way she's definitely not right in the head.

Pretty sure the puppet Jin is based off of the wishmaker's idea of what jin is like, and not his actual memories. It's why she's so worried about it interacting with the sister, because she deosn't want the sister's ideas of jin getting inside the puppet.

 

[letmereadmangas]

what am i?where am i?who am i?WTF IS GOING ON???????