Isekai Ojisan - Vol. 12 Ch. 61.2

[quiproquo]

The law can best be summed up as "whatever I feel like at the time".

like Naples (l am Italian)

 

[Seaweebrainz]

I am lucky to live in a country with decent bike infrastructure but when theres a point where a bike lane is not available, I almost always ride on pedestrian paths because the road is simply too dangerous

 

[ErikTheRed]

Why is the cyclist wearing a knight helmet though

 

[iseedrawnpeople]

Here in Nairobi, Kenya motorcyclists who carry people an goods drive on the sidewalks. Right in front of police too.

 

[aiMute]

I'm also annoyed at cyclists. Some ride pedestrian-only areas like it belongs to them, at speed at which they might not stop in time if pedestrian moves to the side and overall expecting pedestrians to give them the way where they are not even fucking allowed. Unlike cars where you need a license, any idiot can ride a bike so some don't even care about learning the rules, let alone following them.

 

[albirew]

Why is the cyclist wearing a knight helmet though

definitively a normal day for an oba-han on her way to shopping...

 

[wallsg]

what in tarnation?

Like Major Kong famously said, "Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones."

I think that applies to what this manga is like now. Maybe not stupid but silly and incomprehensible.

 

[wallsg]

like Naples (l am Italian)

I once watched some traffic outside of a hotel window in Rome within a few blocks of the Coliseum. Scooters were like water running through rocks while the rocks moved slowly. I would NEVER attempt to drive there.

 

[Garrulous]

Why is the cyclist wearing a knight helmet though

Safety First!


To jump in on jump in on the bike thing, in a purely theoretical analysis I would generally think it is safer overall with no bike lane for bikes to be on the sidewalk. This is because one of the biggest causes of accidents as well as the danger of accidents is speed differential. Assuming a 35mph speed limit(which is what I see most often in towns, though some areas can be as low as 25mph) your average cyclist is going to have a 15-20mph speed differential since an average cyclist tends to hit around 15-20mph. However, plenty of people report getting 10mph(That is what I about manage) or even less. Bicycles are stable down to about 5mph on average according to a quick google, I think I have managed slower, but make and model are almost certainly factors. As for professionals, they can approach 30mph and could safely travel on streets, since 35 is the speed limit not the minimum.

So if roads are 35mph, what are sidewalks? Quick google says average jogging speed is about 5mph and average walking about 3mph. So if a cyclist isn't being reckless and is traveling as slow as possible while remaining stable they are basically the same speed as a jogger. So in theory they can match the upper end of the sidewalk 'speed limit', but only professional cyclists could hope to approach the lower end of a 35mph zone. A School Zone which can be as low as 15-20MPH is basically the exact range of an average cyclist so they would fit right in with vehicle traffic. In theory this sounds like without bike lanes outside of school zones bikes should travel at a minimum speed and stay on the sidewalk.

But wait. . . how many cyclists actually obey the sidewalk 'speed-limit'. Most of the ones I see are WAY over the limit by 2-3 times, that would be like a car going 70-105mph through the city. Kinda reckless. Anyways around my area you won't get in trouble for being a bicycle on a sidewalk, but it is expected that if you are going to be ZOOMING about to get on the damn road. You will be yelled at/get the stink eye if you are zipping about on the sidewalk. Good sidewalk etiquette actually has you dismounting fairly often, you don't really get very far fast since jogging would achieve the same result.

A TL;DR is that a big problem with cyclists being on sidewalks is they will not be traveling at a safe speed, even though theoretically they can travel that slow. And that roads aren't particularly a good option either unless the speed limit is school zone level, so bike lanes are definitely an important thing if you are expecting people to bike around.

 

[feha]

Safety First!


To jump in on jump in on the bike thing, in a purely theoretical analysis I would generally think it is safer overall with no bike lane for bikes to be on the sidewalk. This is because one of the biggest causes of accidents as well as the danger of accidents is speed differential. Assuming a 35mph speed limit(which is what I see most often in towns, though some areas can be as low as 25mph) your average cyclist is going to have a 15-20mph speed differential since an average cyclist tends to hit around 15-20mph. However, plenty of people report getting 10mph(That is what I about manage) or even less. Bicycles are stable down to about 5mph on average according to a quick google, I think I have managed slower, but make and model are almost certainly factors. As for professionals, they can approach 30mph and could safely travel on streets, since 35 is the speed limit not the minimum.

So if roads are 35mph, what are sidewalks? Quick google says average jogging speed is about 5mph and average walking about 3mph. So if a cyclist isn't being reckless and is traveling as slow as possible while remaining stable they are basically the same speed as a jogger. So in theory they can match the upper end of the sidewalk 'speed limit', but only professional cyclists could hope to approach the lower end of a 35mph zone. A School Zone which can be as low as 15-20MPH is basically the exact range of an average cyclist so they would fit right in with vehicle traffic. In theory this sounds like without bike lanes outside of school zones bikes should travel at a minimum speed and stay on the sidewalk.

But wait. . . how many cyclists actually obey the sidewalk 'speed-limit'. Most of the ones I see are WAY over the limit by 2-3 times, that would be like a car going 70-105mph through the city. Kinda reckless. Anyways around my area you won't get in trouble for being a bicycle on a sidewalk, but it is expected that if you are going to be ZOOMING about to get on the damn road. You will be yelled at/get the stink eye if you are zipping about on the sidewalk. Good sidewalk etiquette actually has you dismounting fairly often, you don't really get very far fast since jogging would achieve the same result.

A TL;DR is that a big problem with cyclists being on sidewalks is they will not be traveling at a safe speed, even though theoretically they can travel that slow. And that roads aren't particularly a good option either unless the speed limit is school zone level, so bike lanes are definitely an important thing if you are expecting people to bike around.

The main issue with sidewalks is that instability thing. Sidewalks are often not designed for speeds over 5mph (and often congestion of pedestrians means there is no way to pass anyone, so you are locked to pedestrian walking speed), so a bike is really unstable if it goes at safe speeds on it (if you can go at stable speeds, it is because the side-walk is wide enough that it has a dedicated bike-lane drawn on it, or at least drawn to be a shared pedestrian+bikes lane). And any ppl hit is going to be unprotected.

In comparison, a car can slow down as much as whatever is needed to not be forced between the decision of passing a bike vs stopping entirely. And if a bike runs into a car, the car driver is protected (and the bike driver is kinda too, on account of what kinds of collisions a bike can have with a car - assuming cars can't collide with bikes driving in same lane [including when they switch lanes]).
And mainly, the advantage with using the roads is that drivers have been educated, are alert (it's even illegal to not be alert as a driver), and risks losing their license if they don't keep others safe. So they actively try to keep their opponents [on the road] safe (this joke really doesn't work in english...), including signaling their intentions clearly. Add the fact that the vehicles can't randomly strafe, fall over, drop stuff, and unlike pedestrians obey the laws of inertia, and in total this makes it actually be a much safer place to mix types of traffic than sidewalks.
Also allows the bikes to go faster than they otherwise could safely do, so it is actually better for bikes in that sense too.

Regarding zooming at unsafe speeds with no regard to pedestrians, this is why bikes are considered the worst marauders of any type of traffic. Basically, while this convo has mainly been about bikes in general (which means sane people), normally when ppl actively mention bikes they are generally actually referring to the minority that seemingly think they are athletes and has to go at maximum possible speed anytime they are in transit (over here often called "racer-bikers"), and you can easily recognize them in their aerodynamic gear (helmet, skin-tight clothes, handle forcing them to lean forward at all times, and rarely use the saddle), though they are in reality a minority of even that group. These people are clearly considering it an actual slight and feel offended if anyone does something that ends up preventing them from reaching the highest speed possible (even seen them shout [after passing] at ppl who were walking exactly as they should, for not having hurried out of the way. Often without even having signaled their existence and having appeared out of nowhere from the perspective of those pedestrians). No matter the where and when. The worst are even doing this in tiny dirt-paths (in the forest parks) meant for recreational walking (or sometimes jogging. But it is decidedly not a mountainbike-trail), where there is neither the visibility to see far, nor the space to safely pass people, nor the ground to safely brake at those speeds (even more fun when they also don't even bother to use their bell and suddenly appear passing you from behind scaring you shitless!).
Despite using a bike myself for any transit in the city nowadays, these are the people I actively try to never become (particularly the part where they feel offended by others existing in public). And before that actively tried to keep in mind is a tiny minority and that I should not treat everyone on bikes as them.

Good point about dismounting fairly often - it hasn't been mentioned before but I totally agree with you. And I do dismount quite often too. If it is a crossing without a lowered curb, or that is Z shaped to force bicycles to dismount, I take that as the designer implying that I am meant to dismount when crossing, and thus do so. And as over here you can't bike on sidewalks at all (over a certain age), I dismount anytime I want to use a sidewalk or walking-only paths (actually only half-true. I often lower speed and stay on the bike until another living creature (or no-visibility corner) comes within a ~7 meter distance, despite how I am not meant to).

But in summary, I disagree with your tl;dr, and would argue that bikes cannot travel at "safe" speeds for a sidewalk [with pedestrians on it]. Because pedestrians can ignore laws of inertia and literally move in any direction at any time (which is why I would argue you must dismount if someone is close enough, and prefer doing it at such a distance they don't ever have to even feel nervous).

 

[nobody42]

Why is the cyclist wearing a knight helmet though

That's probably one of those hats/visors which shield off sunlight for both visibility and avoiding sunburn on your face. Those are surprisingly popular on the Nippon.

 

[curvedtree]

lmao manga keeping it real

 

[quiproquo]

I once watched some traffic outside of a hotel window in Rome within a few blocks of the Coliseum. Scooters were like water running through rocks while the rocks moved slowly. I would NEVER attempt to drive

True but trust me Naples is worst.

 

[Pasta-san]

Over here, it is always illegal to bike on sidewalks not designated (with signage, generally drawn on the street) to allow bikes ...
...unless you are younger than a certain age, for some reason. As if someone thought kids are less likely to accidentally hit someone. And to be clear the age is well into teens, I am not talking about something like "5-year-old on a bike with support wheels" where it actually makes sense to expect their speed to be slow and manageable. And their mass to be low and manageable. So as a pedestrian I would hate it if someone used the sidewalk.

[
When using a bike, even in a city that is generally considered as unusually designed to allow for biking, you truly do realize that you are nevertheless considered a second-class citizen on the roads. Even for roads in the central parts where they claim they don't want cars and set up cameras fining any car-owner whose car enters that area (while they claim they don't want cars, truth is the city budgets expecting a certain amount of income from those tolls, and they really want as many cars as possible for that reason. It is why the 2 cities, when they were meant to cooperate on this, had one city hurry up and set up their own cameras/zone so they could monopolize the money. And in a way that impacted the other city's road-usage heavily so they had to spend money shoring up less-used roads that were now suddenly heavily trafficked), you can tell that any bike lane is someone going "oh, wait. I forgot to include planning for bikes! Let's quickly draw some lines and marks on the roads, even when they make little sense! and/or let's at least not create signage that is visible well in advance or from all angles, so someone on a bike only knows how to handle this intersection the third time they have to cross it!"

And damn do the city loves to leave pot-holes if they are in a dedicated bike-lane...

:fuming: :fume: :fuming: :fume:
[/SPOILER]

Overall, I honestly wish the country made proper laws for biking and taught them in school to everyone. Because more often than not, people on bikes are the worst, and are absolute marauders more selfish than a fish in jail (get it? cell fish). And it would be way better if it was decided who has right-of-way in certain situations and that was then taught (protip, it is, and should always be, the pedestrian. Except when you are a group of ppl walking side-by-side covering the entire bike lane. Then you are the ones that should move. Even moreso if you are 3 baby carriages side-by-side + a slow grandpa with a cane, what were you even doing blocking everything in the first place, if you are that bulky and unable to get out of the way?).
But also pedestrians really don't know how to handle any situation where a bike appears and they are in the way. Particularly if you had to ring to get their attention (And yes, that includes me. I get scared, jump straight up, land, lose my balance and fall over, and then look at where the ring came from with a backpack swinging out into the opposing lane hitting anyone coming from the front or anyone using it to pass me), expect any such person to throw themselves in any direction randomly. So would have been nice if it was decided how people should react (freeze in place vs jump to the right side of the road. Either is fine, but please stop jumping further into the road...) and that was taught.
And I would love it if a universal signal was made that could be used to simply tell "I am here. You are currently fine so for all that is holy do not react! But I just want to give heads-up as I plan to pass you soon, and don't want you to randomly veer sideways in any way or otherwise scare you when I pass", as for now all we have is playing with the gearing and hoping the individual heard you (but don't expect that, as the cars are too loud and/or the pedestrians are wearing noise-canceling headphones anyway, despite walking in a dedicated bike lane with the pedestrian lane 3 meters over to the right separated with a patch of grass...).
I am not even asking for the world (aka for pedestrians to not use dedicated bike-lanes) here!

Kids are allowed on sidewalks because they aren't trusted to not get run over, not because they are "less likely to hit someone."

A 14 year old gets hit by a car and it's a tragedy. A 24 year old gets hit by a car and it's an unfortunate accident. Same but in reverse for hitting a pedestrian as the biker.

 

[Pasta-san]

Your kind are a danger to walkers.

No, drivers are a danger to both. This like punching the guy smoking weed instead of the serial killer stabbing people left and right. The fact is a bike collision is infinitely less likely to kill or seriously injure a pedestrian than a car collision, and is way less likely to occur per mile of travel.

 

[wallsg]

True but trust me Naples in worst.

I heard somewhere that the farther south you go in Italy the more chaotic it is. Florence seemed pretty orderly.

 

[quiproquo]

I heard somewhere that the farther south you go in Italy the more chaotic it is. Florence seemed pretty orderly.

More or less, it's difficult to differentiate when it's over 9000 🤣

 

[Gwiber]

In Britain it is illegal for cyclists to ride on the pavement in areas not designated as cycle path or pedestrian and cyclists duel use, but then most cities do have cycle paths and bus lanes (which they are allowed to use as a cycle lane) as well as designated spaces in front of cars at junctions with traffic lights for cyclists to wait in and get off first.

there should be no reason to cycle on the pavement, as where there is no cycle lane the road should be safe enough to use IF you follow the highway code, but if you genuinely do have to go on a pavement or pedestrian area for a shortcut or something then you're meant to dismount and walk your bike for that section. If cycling on a road is scary, that's not considered a valid excuse for cycling on the pavement and putting pedestrians at risk, perhaps in this case it would be a good idea to take cycle proficiency lessons so it's not scary and you know what you should be doing to stay safe.

 

[zeever]

Me myself are sidewalk cyclist if the main roads are busy and vice versa, if there's a between then i choose both side continuing avoiding pedestrian and cars. but tbh i really hate those main roads cyclists, they are typically the ego riders, the selfish one, the one who doesn't give a fuck riding a bike with their friends and blocking half of the street with their wide formation. U can find them usually during the morning weekend

 

[rexmundi]

law about biker