Isekai Walking - Vol. 8 Ch. 70 - Slave Contract

[T-sama]

Did this manga just try to sell me slavery as a net positive for society?! Usually I ignore the trope, this time the manga is trying way too hard to justify this.

Counter argument, loli slave

 

[Outflanks10]

Detected the butt hurt american.

Sorry I'm not American, just pointing out how over saturated the slavery trope in Isekai is and moreover how bad it was portrayed in this manga. Although you seem much more invested in this or at least stirring the pot.

 

[outinthegardener]

Thanks for all the info, very interesting stuff, reason I singled out Americans is because compared to the other countries, they seemingly went really deep into embracing slavery as a culture and justify it with religion, did any other country even outright have a civil war about it? with their descendents to this day crying about their "lost cause"? So I do feel Americans inevitably end up an outlier when it comes to slavery.

That's true, the American "lost cause" mythology is a particular flavor. Probably the closest example is Nazi Germany, which borrowed heavily from America. Manifest Destiny/Lebensraum, White Master Race/Aryan Master Race, White Nationalist Southern Churches/Anti-Communist and Anti-semitic pro-nazi Churches. While Germany post ww2 didn't create a jim crow police state of racial terror to maintain their caste system, they did and do support fascist policies in Israel and the export of European Jews to Israel.

But again I think American slavery was not about Christianity, but that it used Christianity and racism to justify economic oppression. In the same way, it used Christianity and racism to justify the ethnic cleansing of indigenous Americans.

I think one of the reasons American slavery gets people pickled is that they spend a lot of propaganda to convince people American slavery ended with the civil war, when it really just transformed or was exported. There are still wink wink slaves in the continental USA, doing farm labor, or prison labor, or kitchen work.

Oh here's an example- Haiti's slave revolution from 1791-1804, which was successful. That's a civil war about slavery.

 

[benderboyboy]

This was NOT a manga that I thought would be try to justify slavery. But if anyone is wondering on the specific case of debt slavery, the reason debt slavery is wrong (aside from it being slavery) is that debt, or money, is a cultural phenomenon. It's a work of societal fiction. You impose slavery on someone with societal fiction, you can remove slavery with societal fiction. It is 100% a choice on the side of the slavers to use the system to create a slave caste.

 

[T-sama]

That's true, the American "lost cause" mythology is a particular flavor. Probably the closest example is Nazi Germany, which borrowed heavily from America. Manifest Destiny/Lebensraum, White Master Race/Aryan Master Race, White Nationalist Southern Churches/Anti-Communist and Anti-semitic pro-nazi Churches. While Germany post ww2 didn't create a jim crow police state of racial terror to maintain their caste system, they did and do support fascist policies in Israel and the export of European Jews to Israel.

Yeah, Nazis are the only one I can think that are actually similar, I kinda of forgot about them lol.

But again I think American slavery was not about Christianity, but that it used Christianity and racism to justify economic oppression. In the same way, it used Christianity and racism to justify the ethnic cleansing of indigenous Americans.

I think one of the reasons American slavery gets people pickled is that they spend a lot of propaganda to convince people American slavery ended with the civil war, when it really just transformed or was exported. There are still wink wink slaves in the continental USA, doing farm labor, or prison labor, or kitchen work.

True, you make some very fair points, I guess although slavery ended, even today many conservative groups never  really dropped the racist views that started with the confederacy, add that to the systematic racism, it makes sense why people always picks on Americans over slavery, because they never really worked to get past that, Lost Cause is just one aspect of that.

Oh here's an example- Haiti's slave revolution from 1791-1804, which was successful. That's a civil war about slavery.

Guess that makes it two then

 

[T-sama]

Sorry I'm not American, just pointing out how over saturated the slavery trope in Isekai is and moreover how bad it was portrayed in this manga. Although you seem much more invested in this or at least stirring the pot.

Is there any manga that actually do good portrayal of slavery? Honest question, because even when it's portrayed as a bad thing, it tends to be  really caricaturized, with the slavers as mustache twirling pure evil monsters.

 

[Outflanks10]

Is there any manga that actually do good portrayal of slavery? Honest question, because even when it's portrayed as a bad thing, it tends to be  really caricaturized, with the slavers as mustache twirling pure evil monsters.

Thats quite a good question and to be honest, I don't know as I don't seek out slavery manga.
It just happens that Isekai manga has a lot of it. (just gonna end it here as I just received a warning from the mods, think it might have been the video)

 

[T-sama]

Thats quite a good question and to be honest, I don't know as I don't seek out slavery manga.
It just happens that Isekai manga has a lot of it. (just gonna end it here as I just received a warning from the mods, think it might have been the video)

It's okay if you don't reply lol
I've read my share of isekai, at this point slavery is quite literally a staple of the genre with no thought behind it, at best you get neutral portrayals of slavery, showing both good and bad sides of it.

Otherwise the most you'll get is it completely negative to portray one side as evil, or as "good" like in this manga, but story never really actually goes deep into it independent of how it's shown, because it's just another cliche to go through from their list of things a isekai needs.

At this point slavery is like, power of friendship in a shounen series, or all girls loving a single guy for no reason in a harem, slavery in isekai is effectively just another thing it has to be included because... that's how the genre goes I guess, it's probably part of the reason it annoys me when someone starts throwing a fit over it, it's literally just a obligatory cliche with no deeper meaning, because it's expected for the genre.

 

[Tatsuya-Kai]

Now, someone who knows better please correct me if I'm wrong, it is true Americans weren't the only ones doing it, and that in other places there was definitely racial roots, but I'm pretty sure Americans were the only ones to straight up use religion to justify it, that slavery of black people was quite literally their God given right, slavery of black people absolutely defined confederate culture, it's the reason why not only they took so long to end slavery, but why also even today many people  still want confederacy and slavery back.

You don't see other countries with cultures openly whining about a "lost cause" that was defined by slavery.

As for slavery today, too many toes to step, people are too scared to destroy status quo and start wars over it, unfortunately.

I can't remember which country exactly that started it but no, it wasn't the americans that used religion to justify it first, heck it wasn't even christians first as the islamic world had slavery centuries earlier, but if you mean the middle ages slave trade the ones that used it for justification first it was one of the european powers, i just can't remember which off the top of my head.

is employment actually a modernized slavery?
jk but not really lmao

Technically no, on the basic implication of employment it is not slavery, however with the current level of inflation and wages it's borderline in alot of industries around the world, especially black company culture that works their workers literally into the grave.

 

[Outflanks10]

It's okay if you don't reply lol
I've read my share of isekai, at this point slavery is quite literally a staple of the genre with no thought behind it, at best you get neutral portrayals of slavery, showing both good and bad sides of it.

Otherwise the most you'll get is it completely negative to portray one side as evil, or as "good" like in this manga, but story never really actually goes deep into it independent of how it's shown, because it's just another cliche to go through from their list of things a isekai needs.

At this point slavery is like, power of friendship in a shounen series, or all girls loving a single guy for no reason in a harem, slavery in isekai is effectively just another thing it has to be included because... that's how the genre goes I guess, it's probably part of the reason it annoys me when someone starts throwing a fit over it, it's literally just a obligatory cliche with no deeper meaning, because it's expected for the genre.

True, hope you find a manga that you are looking for or at least meets your expectations.

 

[Hexahedron_3BLD]

Now, someone who knows better please correct me if I'm wrong... but I'm pretty sure Americans were the only ones to straight up use religion to justify it

I only know about the history of chistianity and slavery, so I can't speak on any other religion, but using the Bible to defend slavery is as old as Christianity itself. Amongst the early church fathers, it was the majority consenus that slavery was moraly permissible, using the bible as their evidence. Some examples are Augistine of Hippo (354-430 CE), who used the bible to argue that the flogging of slaves was morally permissible and John Chrysostom (347-407 CE), who wrote that it was a "great accolade" to beat slaves. In fact, Marcion (85-160 CE) was branded by the early church as a heretic for his views, of which included his belief that slaves should be liberated.

It is no surprise that a religion which ties morality to a milennia old collection of works commonly takes this stance. I'm not going to argue about the bible's stance on slavery, as the bible makes itself clear. The god of the bible, through the "perfect" law he gave to Moses, permits the ownership of humans, the beating of said slaves and leaving your slaves as inheritance for your children. And before anyone says that they were let free after 7 years, go back and read what it actually says. Male Hebrew servants were to be let go after 7 years, but not female Hebrew slaves. And as for foreign/war slaves, Leviticus is clear that "you can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life"

 

[T-sama]

I can't remember which country exactly that started it but no, it wasn't the americans that used religion to justify it first, heck it wasn't even christians first as the islamic world had slavery centuries earlier, but if you mean the middle ages slave trade the ones that used it for justification first it was one of the european powers, i just can't remember which off the top of my head.

It's okay if you don't remember the exact country, you still make a good point, a lot of what we get is one way or another from USA, so it's always easy to point at them first lol

Technically no, on the basic implication of employment it is not slavery, however with the current level of inflation and wages it's borderline in alot of industries around the world, especially black company culture that works their workers literally into the grave.

Capitalism out of control do makes work borderline slavery sometimes, doesn’t help that guys at the top become millionaire through wage theft.

 

[outinthegardener]

Is there any manga that actually do good portrayal of slavery? Honest question, because even when it's portrayed as a bad thing, it tends to be  really caricaturized, with the slavers as mustache twirling pure evil monsters.

That is a good question. By "good depiction" do we mean "nuanced portrayal of the reality of slavery" or "depiction of slavery as a peaceful and positive outcome?" If the former I suggest A Witch's Life In Mongol. If the latter, I think my conception of slavery is fundamentally negative, so any depiction of "positive slavery" might as well be called adoption/marriage/roommates.

Part of me wants to object to the concept of "good" or "bad" depiction, because it's critically vague.

 

[T-sama]

I only know about the history of chistianity and slavery, so I can't speak on any other religion, but using the Bible to defend slavery is as old as Christianity itself. Amongst the early church fathers, it was the majority consenus that slavery was moraly permissible, using the bible as their evidence. Some examples are Augistine of Hippo (354-430 CE), who used the bible to argue that the flogging of slaves was morally permissible and John Chrysostom (347-407 CE), who wrote that it was a "great accolade" to beat slaves. In fact, Marcion (85-160 CE) was branded by the early church as a heretic for his views, of which included his belief that slaves should be liberated.

It is no surprise that a religion which ties morality to a milennia old collection of works commonly takes this stance. I'm not going to argue about the bible's stance on slavery, as the bible makes itself clear. The god of the bible, through the "perfect" law he gave to Moses, permits the ownership of humans, the beating of said slaves and leaving your slaves as inheritance for your children. And before anyone says that they were let free after 7 years, go back and read what it actually says. Male Hebrew servants were to be let go after 7 years, but not female Hebrew slaves. And as for foreign/war slaves, Leviticus is clear that "you can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life"

Good old Christianity, most priest conveniently ignore these parts of the old testament, but not the supposed anti gay part lol

Thanks for all that info on Christianity and slavery.

 

[T-sama]

True, hope you find a manga that you are looking for or at least meets your expectations.

I learned to have no expectations for anything in life

 

[Basic_human]

Holy crap were really doing this?

Arguing about slave

 

[T-sama]

That is a good question. By "good depiction" do we mean "nuanced portrayal of the reality of slavery" or "depiction of slavery as a peaceful and positive outcome?" If the former I suggest A Witch's Life In Mongol. If the latter, I think my conception of slavery is fundamentally negative, so any depiction of "positive slavery" might as well be adoption.

Yeah, I meant nuanced, to really have a truly "positive" portrayal of slavery there would need to be a whole magic system to ensure the slave was protected, but mangakas never go into that since you're not supposed to put much thought into it, just enjoy the new waifu lol

Thanks for the manga, I'll have a look.

Part of me wants to object to the concept of "good" or "bad" depiction, because it's critically vagvague.

Oh yeah, I would argue the vagueness is on purpose for manga, because it's rarely the focus of the story, just a excuse to justify why another waifu is following the protagonist, isekais are not meant for deep thought unfortunately, most of the time at least.

 

[adrianojuniocunha]

The author arguing in favor of slavery is a little disgusting. And I think the excuse of being in another world hardly works in this case.

 

[T-sama]

All commenter bitching about slave again

If not slavery then it's loli or age gap romance lol

 

[T-sama]

The author arguing in favor of slavery is a little disgusting. And I think the excuse of being in another world hardly works in this case.

Except mangaka never did that, to quote

There's all the difference in the world, since depiction is not endorsement. It's incredibly boring when the utterances of any character in a fictional world are interpreted as what the author really thinks in real life: If a manga features a character who offers a justification for killing criminals, we don't lambast the author for wanting to instate real-life vigilantism; if a character hates women, we don't hound the author because clearly they must hate women in real life. In exactly the same way, a story can feature slavery and characters sympathetic to it without the author justifying real life slavery. Requiring authors to only feature 'acceptable' ideas in their works is merely stifling creativity.