It's Not Meguro-san's First Time - Vol. 1 Ch. 9 - Guilty Feelings

[Meridis]

@FredFriendly

Then you are coddling your girlfriend. Like I said, respecting someone isn't the same as being nice to them. You can't just jump in and do it all for them. At the very least you must give her the chance to deal with her problems herself rather than deciding it on your own.

 

[FredFriendly]

@Meridis Coddling my girlfriend? What an effing joke. Well, we're never going to see eye-to-eye on this one. My girlfriend will be happy and feel loved that I care enough about her to protect her from some sexual deviants while you let your girlfriend piss her pants in fear.

 

[Yourself]

We were almost there comrades, almost...

 

[Naxrrhid]

Damn, this was a good chapter........ but why did I enjoy it?

There was absolutely ZERO mention of Meguro's virginity.
No flashbacks or references to a previous boyfriend or how many men used her a cum-dump.
The MC was not an insufferable, spineless retard and actually acted like a realistic human being.

Ahhhh, that would explain it. Either someone else wrote this chapter or the author is finally learning what a shounen romance comedy is supposed to be about.

Spoiler

It's almost like that whole virginity shtick wasn't needed except for the title name baits.

 

[Meridis]

@FredFriendly

my girlfriend would not be a child and I wouldn't treat her as one. She would be able to stand being uncomfortable for a moment to speak her mind. Even if she doesn't speak, she would be able to endure for just a moment for help to come.

Yeah, you can do everything for them, pay their way through life, make all the decisions, and speak for them and they may be happy. They may call you nice but being nice to someone doesn't mean you respect them. The fact of the matter is, it is sometimes easier to just be an object and there can be comfort in being treated like one and letting your "owner" deal with everything. However, it is still objectification.

also, wow, what a leap. Someone isn't a sexual deviant just because they talk to a girl. I made it very clear that you should jump in if they are actually harassing her.

 

[DazarGaidin]

Did his balls just drop, nice!

 

[Gotim18]

@Meridis well that’s what they showed before that even when she said she has a boyfriend they still wanted to pursue it. I do agree but don’t see that as objectification but rather some people are too persistent, I agree regardless of the reason if she says no then just move on. And yet we do since what you count as objectification is completely different because you are calling it objectification but to me its not even close.

 

[GruntZone360]

+1 Mom

 

[Meridis]

@Gotim18

In that case, I referred to the guy not backing off until the boyfriend comes as objectification, which it is. Further, though it isn't what I said, being persistent after being refused is a less obvious form of objectification. There aren't personal definitions of this. If you discount a person's will and act upon them, you take away their personhood, objectifying them by definition.

 

[FredFriendly]

@Meridis You're lucky that you were able to pick out such an incredibly capable fictitious girlfriend. Unfortunately, not all women are quite so capable, but you just don't seem to realize that, or, perhaps, for the sake of your argument, you're just ignoring the possibility. And speaking of leaps, I gotta say that you're claim that helping out your girlfriend in such a scenario, unless it is exactly by your guidebook, is objectification is just really bizarre, especially when you mix all that other gobble-dee-gook into the fray. Oh, and "being nice to someone doesn't mean you respect them" also doesn't mean that you don't respect them. What a bunch of horseshit.

 

[Rongmario]

Great development from MC once again

 

[Gotim18]

@Meridis when I say personal definition I’m talking about like what you find offensive and what I find offensive are different things without changing the definition of offensive. That’s not really what objectifying is, your description sounds like a cop objectifies someone when they arrest them despite the persons will to not go to jail.

 

[UncleQ]

Come on Mama break out those Koga baby pictures and have Meguro stay for dinner so you can tell her all about what Koga was like when he was a still in diapers.

 

[FredFriendly]

@UncleQ Yeah! Let the humiliation and embarrassment continue!

 

[Meridis]

@FredFriendly

I never suggested they be anything amazing. I merely said that they would either be able to say no to someone or just be able to endure for a moment. Your suggestion requires that your girlfriend would collapse immediately upon being spoken too. Remember, I said you can jump in if they keep going after them without getting a "yes" as a response, not that they have to scream no. Even if I had a girlfriend such as you described, they would still be able to wait for me to come and help after he has asked her more than once. What you are suggesting by denying that is that you should block other men from talking to her. I'm merely saying you have to let them speak for themselves and, even if they can't speak, don't go making decisions or speaking for them until they've had a chance to express themselves.

@Gotim18

I'm not speaking about something with subjective definitions like being offensive. I'm speaking to the actual definition of objectification. I'm actually not concerned with what is offensive or not, I'm not speaking to that. If you go more in depth into philosophy than the dictionary definition, you get 7 conditions which define objectification if any one of them occur. What we were talking about with giving up specifically because her boyfriend comes suggests ownership. What FredFriendly is suggesting would violate her autonomy and make her inert. Each of these are part of the definition of objectification, which I'm speaking to. It isn't about my feelings or if I find something offensive.

and, yeah, a great deal about being arrested objectifies you by necessity. Some of it is unnecessary, like how in the US our 13th Amendment allows you to be enslaved if you are convicted. It isn't done with consideration of if one is being objectified or not, that isn't the point.

 

[Gimlimn]

I was thinking about that and if what she said about I forgot the keys is not true, and that's why she went to the hotels and the houses of her ex-boyfriends?

 

[MacMeaties]

@Meridis you do know the person who defined those 7 conditions herself said that they are not inherently a negative thing (and can in fact be positive) and that even if one or more of those criteria are met that objectification might not actually be present, yes?

 

[Naxrrhid]

@UncleQ

That would honestly be amazing to see, but I'm sure our MC would neck himself if that did happen.

Also, would Mama-chan act the same way towards Meguro if she knew she was a used goods slut?

 

[UncleQ]

@FredFriendly My parents use to think breaking out the family album was the height of hilarity when I brought a girl home.

@Naxrrhid Are you asking me personal or just throwing that question out there?

The only thing my folks cared about when I was in high school was that I used protection and that was more about not knocking a girl up more than it was about catching something. In fact it would have been creepy as fuck if my mother or father set me down and was like "Now Q I know Mary Jane is a nice girl and all but before we let you two get too serious we're going to need to verify the existence of her hymen. Now now don't leave! Your father has gone to all the trouble of buying you a speculum and a Polaroid Instamatic."

Hell the only time most folks really care about the number of sexual partners someone had is in high school when sex is still this sort of a over blown mystery. By the time I got to college the conversations about someone's sexual history were more about whether the person caught something and if they were into butt stuff. The only people still caring about sexual purity at that point were Jesus freaks and awkward guys that where still having a problem shaking that childish Madonna/whore complex and building up sex like it was akin to reaching a mythical higher state of being.

 

[Meridis]

@MacMeaties
and this conversation was started because I said that Gotim18 pointing out that degenerateafro's had a backwards understanding of objectification while saying the mc should stand up to guys asking her out was ironic. Further, in the same way I said to FredFriendly that it is divorced from whether you are nice to them, it is divorced from being positive or negative.