J-Novel Club

[feha]

Is the block list even persistent now?

@ whoever answers this ☝️: include a reply to me, as I too want to know the answer

 

[Mitchell1711]

Sudden spam old old stuff in latest-updates had me hyped for stuff being picked up again... only to find out it's only chapter 1

Though I must admit, the way this group is uploading, really feels like they might be breaking rule 1.8?

Though I might be wrong, maybe they end up posting chapters past ch1 too.
...Though even if they do, it feels like they might still be breaking that rule, since as far as I can tell it only links to their own site, permanently withholding even the posted chapters? For the purpose of attracting/linking ppl to their site?


I doubt it's as bad as you make it sound, since if it was then this group wouldn't have been able to post any links without breaking rule 1.5 "Chapters from groups linking to websites which adopt excessive profiteering techniques are not allowed."


I mean, yes? Javascript (and no, this isn't just a "git gud" answer - if a buggy thing I made for myself is acceptable you could dm me and I could send you a userscript that does that as one of its minor features. It is not really something I feel is usable by users tho, and sorta relies on me knowing all the quirks and how to fix any issues whenever they appear So I would rec making your own thing dedicated to that. If you decide to and need some light aid in doing so feel free to dm anyway, cba to handhold too much tho and would mostly just point you at useful css-selectors to use in the latest-updates feed (which I use(d) myself), and maybe some snippets for that).

I found the built-in blocking system really broken back when I tried about a year ago or so (when they finally opened the site again; found in https://mangadex.org/settings -> blocks), with groups unblocking themselves constantly. But if that has been fixed since then (likely), then that should work too.

J-Novel isn't an actual group on here, it's an initiative by the Mangadex staff itself to link chapters by the official english publishers on the site. J-Novel isn't breaking any rules because they never had any involvement with the mass uploads in the first place.

 

[meccaflare]

Is there an option somewhere to block all official publishers? There's no point in me seeing updates for things I will never read, and my block list is full from blocking BL translation groups because for some reason I can't just exclude the gay tag.

I very much agree with this. Why is there no way to filter tags in settings.

Is the block list even persistent now?

I thought it was, it just has an arbitrary 25 limit.

 

[feha]

J-Novel isn't an actual group on here, it's an initiative by the Mangadex staff itself to link chapters by the official english publishers on the site. J-Novel isn't breaking any rules because they never had any involvement with the mass uploads in the first place.

It says as much in the description of the group (that j-novel has no affiliation), so I don't think that was ever in question. I was referring to the group this thread is linked to: 4ba19c33-6cc2-43ff-b157-5501b057fce7, and not the publisher by the same name.

edit: Or maybe I misunderstood you, and you mean that 1.8 don't apply if there is enough separation between the owners of the site, and the MD group? So because the md-group doesn't own the site (or rather, 'has no affiliation'), the "your own" part in the rule allows the group to circumvent breaking the rule?

 

[Helitrix]

i was also about to mention if they have a licensee for the manga it would be an official translator not a scantalator. just like how other sites such as LHtranslations and other main scantalator sites arnt covered under the aggregate site rules since they are the scantalator.

 

[HelperHand]

I very much agree with this. Why is there no way to filter tags in settings.

Planned feature, still not implemented

 

[Mitchell1711]

It says as much in the description of the group (that j-novel has no affiliation), so I don't think that was ever in question. I was referring to the group this thread is linked to: 4ba19c33-6cc2-43ff-b157-5501b057fce7, and not the publisher by the same name.

So you were asking if a group set up by Mangadex itself was... violating their own rules? I'm genuinely confused by what you're getting at here.

 

[meccaflare]

Planned feature, still not implemented

That's relieving to hear, But I hope they fix this first lol

 

[feha]

So you were asking if a group set up by Mangadex itself was... violating their own rules? I'm genuinely confused by what you're getting at here.

Yes. That is indeed exactly what I am asking, as it appears to me like they are?

 

[HiraOmnibus]

Yeah, sorry planeskeeper and other JNC fans, but no they are not consumer friendly.

Spoiler: Rant ahead

They use coins as a way to create a degree of separation between prices and real money (they offer coin discountsfor the different sub tiers to further support this) as well as so they can't easily be refunded or debated; the exact same anti-consumer practices gacha/mmo games use to prey on people. It even still has the gambling element because it's not like you get a preview of what you're buying (which I don't agree is a decent price, at all) beyond a first chapter. Very scummy and slimy. I also don't like how it's not very clearly what exactly a sub gets you, especially since I couldn't find any promises about release speed, which personally I think is pretty dang important when it benefits them to drag out a translation as long as possible to keep subs on the hook. Frankly, all I can see of them is price gouging and anti-consumer abuse of the copyright system.

And who the hell cares about DRM?

 

[HelperHand]

You gotta be shitting me I will not be able to read fan scan of Rebuild World on MD anymore... F*ck!!

J-Novel Club have published Rebuild World since last year, and the fan translation is still being worked on, at the moment this is just for tracking purpose

 

[Helitrix]

but for those wondering about rule 1.8 i am pretty sure it doesnt cover a licensed translator, as by their definition in rule 1.2

"Only scanlations (i.e. comics translated and edited into another language) and self-published original comics are allowed to be uploaded. Works with no text to translate, like artwork compilations, are not allowed. Scans of physical official releases or rips of digital official releases/webcomics from official sources, such as original releases (raws) or officially translated releases, are not allowed to be uploaded.)"
my question got mixed up due to this one, you cant upload a licensed manga if you rip their images. but scatalators or people who translate from the raw are safe. so in other words since it is licensed content the 1.8 rule wouldnt apply even if the further chapters are only on that site.

 

[Atifus]

You gotta be shitting me I will not be able to read fan scan of Rebuild World on MD anymore... F*ck!!

Nope, This won't affect that in any way.

 

[feha]

J-Novel Club have published Rebuild World since last year, and the fan translation is still being worked on, at the moment this is just for tracking purpose

Overall, I am actually a fan of this move (my questions about breaking the rules might seem otherwise, but that is mostly me nudging at how the rules might need to be updated with exceptions), as I am all for aggregators!
And I know that in those circles that word has a distinct negative connotation, but no, I am not speaking of the kind most are probably thinking of right now. What I am referring to are things like google, or more relevant, novelupdates (or, indeed, MD itself if this step is any indication). Aggregators that ensure that there is linkage to everything, and everything's discoverable - even if they don't host the content itself.
mangaupdates has been somewhat similar, but always irked me in that the links on that site never works, so I can't find the chapter, or even scanlator, I'm looking at.

But that optimism of mine only holds true if they actually add links to all chapters, and not just ch1's.
Also, that they make it possible to filter it out from latest-feed, probably on by default (and add an easy field for this type of link-chapter in the DB, so I can filter out in my custom feed too). Because it is really annoying if soon the feed will be flooded by entire libraries getting pushed there

but for those wondering about rule 1.8 i am pretty sure it doesnt cover a licensed translator, as by their definition in rule 1.2

"Only scanlations (i.e. comics translated and edited into another language) and self-published original comics are allowed to be uploaded. Works with no text to translate, like artwork compilations, are not allowed. Scans of physical official releases or rips of digital official releases/webcomics from official sources, such as original releases (raws) or officially translated releases, are not allowed to be uploaded.)"
my question got mixed up due to this one, you cant upload a licensed manga if you rip their images. but scatalators or people who translate from the raw are safe. so in other words since it is licensed content the 1.8 rule wouldnt apply even if the further chapters are only on that site.

Then 1.8 needs that exception added. As it is now, 1.8 and 1.2 are two distinct rules, without any interplay (as one might have guessed from the numbers themselves ).

 

[zymosan99]

Nope, This won't affect that in any way.

 

[Mitchell1711]

Yes. That is indeed exactly what I am asking, as it appears to me like they are?

To me it seems fairly self explanatory that a group set up by MD for the purpose of linking official publisher uploads would not need to abide by the rules set up to prevent fan translation groups from profiting of work they do not own the license to. But I get that it might be useful to have an exception written down in the rules, in which case it's probably best to ask the MD staff directly.

 

[BraveDude8]

@feha @Mitchell1711 Rule 1.8 refers to scanlations - these are not scanlations, and thus the rule is irrelevant.

Also, J-Novel only guarantee the first chapter of any given series for free - we will not allow links to chapters that require payment to read.

And group/uploader blocks are persistent, and always have been, as long as you don't clear your local site data.

 

[HelperHand]

my questions about breaking the rules might seem otherwise, but that is mostly me nudging at how the rules might need to be updated with exceptions

It's more like how people don't understand the rule, all of this official publisher linked are an effort to improve discoverability, because again this is no scanlation

 

[meccaflare]

Also, J-Novel only guarantee the first chapter of any given series for free

Well more specifically, its the first chapter for each volume that are free, not just the very first chapter of the first volume.
Also I think MD should add a "Silent Upload" feature. Basically a check box that when checked, stops the release from showing up on the home page or the updates section. I think this would help

 

[feha]

It's more like how people don't understand the rule, all of this official publisher linked are an effort to improve discoverability, because again this is no scanlation

@feha @Mitchell1711 Rule 1.8 refers to scanlations - these are not scanlations, and thus the rule is irrelevant.

I clearly don't know what scanlation means
I always thought it referred to any group scanning foreign mangas and translated them (or sometimes, even just referring to the ones scanning it, making the raws available for scanlators to translate: scanlators scan and upload, then [other] scanlators download and translate)?
edit: rereading rule 1.2 then leaves me with another question. How is this content (official publishers translations) allowed on md if it is neither "scanlations" nor "self-published original comics" (the onlu content allowed according to that rule - unless the licensed translator is somehow considered as part of "the publisher" according to rule 1.2.1.2? Would be a bit of an odd interpretation, but might work? though then it would have been uploaded by the group "[publisher] (ex licenses)" and been "treated as scanlations for the purposes of all rules" (1.2.2)))? I still feel like the rules might need an update with some exceptions & clarifications for this use-case.

Also, J-Novel only guarantee the first chapter of any given series for free - we will not allow links to chapters that require payment to read.

Actually a bit sad about that, but I guess that's policy, so not much that can be done. At least it makes the need for an ability to filter them out much lower priority.

And group/uploader blocks are persistent, and always have been, as long as you don't clear your local site data.

Nice! I can definitely note that it hasn't always been, as I myself had issues with it dropping groups one at a time back when I tried it (it's why I made my custom group filter userscript). But so long as it works now