Kaguya-sama wa Kokurasetai: Tensai-tachi no Renai Zunousen - Vol. 17 Ch. 163 - Fujiwara Chika Wants to Scare
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@Qelix
What the fuck are you reading lmao? This entire story has been about people overcoming their faults through various means to become better people in the end.
Shirogane was a loser slacker kid delinquent who was close to failing. Now, he's the top of the school and respected by most of the student population.
Kaguya was a legitimately terrible person who physically assaulted the president on numerous occasions. She grew out of that into the much kinder person you see today.
Ishigami was someone with issues of self-worth and his place in the school. He's still getting there, but for the most part, has conquered his main obstacle between him and self-actualization.
There's nothing to suggest that Iino won't follow this trend. If anything, Iino right now is still a lot better than Kaguya in Freshman year. Added onto that is the fact that we haven't had a real character arc for her yet.
All I can say is that whatever you posted right there reeks of projection, and you should stop doing that on Ishigami because it's sad and cringy as hell. The point of their dynamic is that Ishigami doesn't give Iino a free pass or try to delude her with nice words. He's critical of her, even overly critical at points (which Iino construed as malice), but the point stands that Ishigami is most genuine to Iino and the one who tolerates her mistakes the least. Iino is also someone who can see the most complete picture of Ishigami, as she sees knows both his bad and good sides (also the fact that she's been with him for like 3 years now). Furthermore, the way you're describing Iino is completely opposite to how Aka describes her - someone who is blunt and hard-headed, but definitely not manipulative or cunning.
It's a bit degrading to Aka himself and a shitty argument to say "Iino is this way to appeal to a certain audience", when clearly that's not the point of her character. Maybe stop projecting onto Ishigami so hard and you'll be able to have a more neutral view.
What the fuck are you reading lmao? This entire story has been about people overcoming their faults through various means to become better people in the end.
Shirogane was a loser slacker kid delinquent who was close to failing. Now, he's the top of the school and respected by most of the student population.
Kaguya was a legitimately terrible person who physically assaulted the president on numerous occasions. She grew out of that into the much kinder person you see today.
Ishigami was someone with issues of self-worth and his place in the school. He's still getting there, but for the most part, has conquered his main obstacle between him and self-actualization.
There's nothing to suggest that Iino won't follow this trend. If anything, Iino right now is still a lot better than Kaguya in Freshman year. Added onto that is the fact that we haven't had a real character arc for her yet.
All I can say is that whatever you posted right there reeks of projection, and you should stop doing that on Ishigami because it's sad and cringy as hell. The point of their dynamic is that Ishigami doesn't give Iino a free pass or try to delude her with nice words. He's critical of her, even overly critical at points (which Iino construed as malice), but the point stands that Ishigami is most genuine to Iino and the one who tolerates her mistakes the least. Iino is also someone who can see the most complete picture of Ishigami, as she sees knows both his bad and good sides (also the fact that she's been with him for like 3 years now). Furthermore, the way you're describing Iino is completely opposite to how Aka describes her - someone who is blunt and hard-headed, but definitely not manipulative or cunning.
It's a bit degrading to Aka himself and a shitty argument to say "Iino is this way to appeal to a certain audience", when clearly that's not the point of her character. Maybe stop projecting onto Ishigami so hard and you'll be able to have a more neutral view.
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@monkeymagic
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about related to what I said, I was making a joke about how dark Miko instantly got. It has nothing to do with whatever you're going off about.
You literally made my brain hurt.
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about related to what I said, I was making a joke about how dark Miko instantly got. It has nothing to do with whatever you're going off about.
You literally made my brain hurt.
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Kaguya is soooo precious, Slay them queen. I wonder how chika will react when she learns the truth. Ngl i had the same reaction as shirogane at first page. Ishigami can see through chika's bs from a mile and wtf is up iino she's bizarre she's definitely a yandere masochist
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Wait, do people really not understand WHY Iino was so upset?
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@zenoslash
No no no president is not slacker. How can he get scholarship if he is slacker. For what i know when he's in first year. He hate rich people, dont have courage, wishy-washy, easily give up, kind of loser. But not a slacker
No no no president is not slacker. How can he get scholarship if he is slacker. For what i know when he's in first year. He hate rich people, dont have courage, wishy-washy, easily give up, kind of loser. But not a slacker
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Way too long WoT, therefore wrapped in a spoiler-tag
@Zenoslash:
@Zenoslash:
I prefer Tsubame over Iino as possible spouse for Ishigami for the reasons I posted, but that's not why I replied 5 hour ago. The words "change her" in another post are what triggered me there. Changing someone is something that might work (people change people all the time), but one can't control into which direction. It sounded like Ishigami should get together with her and "save her", which in most cases wouldn't work out. It is a terrible idea. As I see it, it would most likely lead into an abusive relationship and I would advice every friend of mine in RL to not got down that road.
As I like the character of Ishigami, I don't want him to go there in fiction either. He has a very romantic outlook on how a relationship should work and would invest himself into that relationship until he is spend, if this would be RL and not a story. (Btw: Judging a story as if it is just a story, that follows a predefined plot and tropes, and ignoring, that it tries to emulate reality (at some points at least) would make reading it boring AF. The characters are written over the top, but their reactions are still very believable. That's also why it's fun to read.)
Ishigami helping her as a friend on the other hand, now that's a different story. He wouldn't invest himself too much and draw clear lines. That seems to be the more healthy option, that I wish the story would go down. I'll read it anyways, if it doesn't. He can be critical of her as a friend, too. Maybe he is even in a better position to do so this way.
It is as you mentioned a story about growth and development. The other characters had their share and I also believe, that Iino will mellow out and over come, what holds her back, as this is where the story is going. No doubt about that on my side here either. And yeah, Kaguya has been a lot worse in her Freshman year.
"Furthermore, the way you're describing Iino is completely opposite to how Aka describes her - someone who is blunt and hard-headed, but definitely not manipulative or cunning." I didn't try to describe her as manipulative or cunning. Are you referring to "to change (somebody), into a form one desires"? That didn't point to her. I just wanted to point out other scenarios on how people do change other people and how it is easier in those cases, in comparison to changing someone with issues. (They are issues, because the persons themselves can't or (worse) don't want get rid of them themselves)
If you refer to "imaging Ishigami as the slave", well you don't have to be manipulative or cunning to force your way onto others, especially, when you are blunt and hard-headed. She might not want to do it, but she just might in the long run of a relationship.
And the last point: I'm sorry if my formulation of "Iino is a fictional character, that has been written this way to attract males with a certain fetish." left a bitter aftertaste. Aka's work in building and describing the characters is awesome and they are the way they are, because of story reasons and not to cheaply attract buyers. Certainly I went a bit too far when I formulated it that harshly in my last post. Yet I didn't try to say Aka needs those kind of cheap tricks. I tried to say (and I absolutely failed to do so by formulation it that badly), that Miko herself is a variation of an archetype of person. Let me restate that last paragraph:
"Iino is a fictional character, that has been written in way, so people can see the "damsel in distress" in her, that should be helped. Therefore there is enough space for development and a way a story can move from that as starting point with enough strings attached to make an interesting journey. As this is fiction the author might come up with a way how IinoXIshigami work out, but that would go down fairy tale road IMHO. That still can be a very good read (see ShiroganeXKaguya). But it would be still unlikely, that a character like Ishigami would become happy with a character like Miko (if she actually stays an acknowledgment seeker and hardcore behavior corrector). I can even imagine Ishigami under the totalitarian rule of Miko, as a gag, which best boi doesn't deserve."
So, Miko has her share of problems, that she might (will) overcome with the help of her friends. But portraying the act of "entering a romantic relationship with her to correct her behavior/outlook on the world (to "save" her)" as something good, that's what I don't believe in. It is something that would spell disaster under normal circumstances often enough. Ishigami would end up in a weaker position to actually help her. It wouldn't help her at all and would make Ishigami and herself unhappy.
As I like the character of Ishigami, I don't want him to go there in fiction either. He has a very romantic outlook on how a relationship should work and would invest himself into that relationship until he is spend, if this would be RL and not a story. (Btw: Judging a story as if it is just a story, that follows a predefined plot and tropes, and ignoring, that it tries to emulate reality (at some points at least) would make reading it boring AF. The characters are written over the top, but their reactions are still very believable. That's also why it's fun to read.)
Ishigami helping her as a friend on the other hand, now that's a different story. He wouldn't invest himself too much and draw clear lines. That seems to be the more healthy option, that I wish the story would go down. I'll read it anyways, if it doesn't. He can be critical of her as a friend, too. Maybe he is even in a better position to do so this way.
It is as you mentioned a story about growth and development. The other characters had their share and I also believe, that Iino will mellow out and over come, what holds her back, as this is where the story is going. No doubt about that on my side here either. And yeah, Kaguya has been a lot worse in her Freshman year.
"Furthermore, the way you're describing Iino is completely opposite to how Aka describes her - someone who is blunt and hard-headed, but definitely not manipulative or cunning." I didn't try to describe her as manipulative or cunning. Are you referring to "to change (somebody), into a form one desires"? That didn't point to her. I just wanted to point out other scenarios on how people do change other people and how it is easier in those cases, in comparison to changing someone with issues. (They are issues, because the persons themselves can't or (worse) don't want get rid of them themselves)
If you refer to "imaging Ishigami as the slave", well you don't have to be manipulative or cunning to force your way onto others, especially, when you are blunt and hard-headed. She might not want to do it, but she just might in the long run of a relationship.
And the last point: I'm sorry if my formulation of "Iino is a fictional character, that has been written this way to attract males with a certain fetish." left a bitter aftertaste. Aka's work in building and describing the characters is awesome and they are the way they are, because of story reasons and not to cheaply attract buyers. Certainly I went a bit too far when I formulated it that harshly in my last post. Yet I didn't try to say Aka needs those kind of cheap tricks. I tried to say (and I absolutely failed to do so by formulation it that badly), that Miko herself is a variation of an archetype of person. Let me restate that last paragraph:
"Iino is a fictional character, that has been written in way, so people can see the "damsel in distress" in her, that should be helped. Therefore there is enough space for development and a way a story can move from that as starting point with enough strings attached to make an interesting journey. As this is fiction the author might come up with a way how IinoXIshigami work out, but that would go down fairy tale road IMHO. That still can be a very good read (see ShiroganeXKaguya). But it would be still unlikely, that a character like Ishigami would become happy with a character like Miko (if she actually stays an acknowledgment seeker and hardcore behavior corrector). I can even imagine Ishigami under the totalitarian rule of Miko, as a gag, which best boi doesn't deserve."
So, Miko has her share of problems, that she might (will) overcome with the help of her friends. But portraying the act of "entering a romantic relationship with her to correct her behavior/outlook on the world (to "save" her)" as something good, that's what I don't believe in. It is something that would spell disaster under normal circumstances often enough. Ishigami would end up in a weaker position to actually help her. It wouldn't help her at all and would make Ishigami and herself unhappy.
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I S H I G A M I K N O W S
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HUEHUEH INTESIFIES
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@gartender Surely some people may have mistaken the names at some point, but so far into the series I'm sure it's just a meme. Just like some people call Iida from BnH Lida
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@gartender
Nope, because it would sound like "Rino" in Japanese, and the translation would be different, it's just a caps lock letter "i" that makes people confused with it.
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