Kanojo ni Naritai Kimi to Boku

[totallynotmike]

Damn, right in the queen's onions.

complete with bogus theory about what how and why each human being feels attracted to other people

Yes, yes - me and my pesky hate facts. Certainly, idiotic claims founded in the idea of infinite malleability through cultural engineering, like for example those proposed by Adrienne Rich seem much more credible.

as if everyone goes through the same damn process when finding someone to shag (or not)

Hahaha. Case and point.

Rest is just boring. If you're going for insults, at the very least make them genuine, instead of the whole tired, embarrassing, passive aggressive holier-than-thou new puritan shtick. There's nothing more annoying than artificial microwaved negativity, expressed solely for the purpose of appearing "proper". More importantly though, try not to contradict yourself throughout different paragraphs - some of us have attention spans longer than those twenty seconds required to breeze through one.

Now, how about finally bringing "the debate" to people with actual power, rather than acting like bunch of bitching silly children going through a phase and repeating it's-so-me-slash-i'm-so-woke routine every time new ongoing cs title enters your peripheral vision? It's pretty obvious that what's going on here is spotlight thirst - no one's writing their stories or raising concerns in any of the similar, but older and no longer updated on regular basis manga threads.

 

[Letheliah]

Shoutout to everyone reading this manga and feeling personally attacked by how relateable it is. It's scary how each chapter manages to mirror experiences I was confronted with at that age, but manage to make them wholesome where my realities were perhaps not as lucky. It's a bittersweet validation and escape.

And gods do I love Yukka so much! She's such a strong character addition to the mentors helping Hime figure things out in a healthy and independent manner. The friendship between the four girls is achingly beautiful to read. I think I fall further in love with these characters every new chapter. I do hope we get to read more of Akira beyond that of a plot device, but I think it's good that Hime is the current story focus in discovering herself because then we (and she) can better clearly understand the context with which she loves and interacts with Akira.

@ManyManyAnts (great username lol) you bring up good points in defining girls love/yuri*, though I don't necessarily agree with all of them. It is bullshit that a girls love story has to be wholesome and pure and innocent in it's romance, although reading Kanojo Boku I feel like this story does a good job at presenting exactly that image but at the cusp of change, when childhood and adulthood meet with the realization that life just isn't that pure and fair for some people (queer people, in this case).
I think I'm unsure if I agree with girl's love tags needing to be requited to be called such, though I recognize it as a solid argument due to the vagueness of the tags. I think limiting it to only requited love erases the existence of the feelings, emotions, and motivations a protagonist has in their story. Those Hella Gay Feelings™ still happened and are important plot elements. It is also a sadly common occurrence in reality for gay individuals. _{Dating is hard yo.} If requited, wholesome relations is a prerequisite for these tags, then perhaps this would be another case for why a "LGBT+ themes" tag would be helpful.
(I've also found other unrequited girls love stories tagged as such, with Tatoe Todokanu Ito da to Shite mo being the one I just recently started reading. It's quite an interesting read, though very bittersweet! Def recommend giving it a read.)

_{*yuri, or shoujo ai, or girls love, really the terms are interchangeable or mean drastically different things depending on where you come from and I think these vague connotations definitely don't help the misunderstandings any. It's why I've switch to "Girl's Love" recently as it's pretty blunt and without the sexual or pedophilic stigmas the others may sometimes denote.}​

 

[ManyManyAnts]

@mikegnesium Then let me try once again, and fail to keep it short:

Except it is, cause almost no lesbian would want to date a trans "woman", and even less gay men would consider dating a trans "man". So maybe rules of attraction are just that simple, and it's you people that are trying to play dungeons and dragons here.

At that point all I wanted was to understand what you meant by linking to that them.us post where it clearly mentions how internalized transphobia among other things affects the opinion of people, while saying that. Of course they also clarify that it's just one small study and still far from enough information. My intention was pointing how this specific comment just fell flat and rude for no reason. All this time it feels like you just came here to pick fights with people and show-off your argumentation skills. Like I said before I'm aware you didn't felt like my or other people's insults were good or something, because honestly this is not what this should be about. This is not about me trying to feel superior to you by telling you to back off on your shit because your opinion is Evil and I'm Good, nor this is about winning some sort of banter war. All I wish was that you could realize you're just being a shithead to many people and making things worse than they should be. If your intention really wasn't to come here just to cause a ruckus, you're not showing it.

Whelp, it's that. If you think we are being stupid and childish, that applies to you as well. Being polite is just a means to keep people unruffled, you know that. Fighting fire with fire can actually work but right now we're just going off about irrelevant stuff and probably breaking some rules. This was never the place to discuss or judge opinions on LGBT issues after all. Naturally, if you say the other person's views are shit, it usually comes full circle, and nothing will end up changing.

@Letheliah Yeah, it's not that simple in the end. At least in Uta's back-and-forth (im)moral adventures her love was always the main plot point. It's her drama about dealing with having fallen for a woman she has little chances with. But KanoBoku doesn't have that kind of romantic focus, for now. There's a lot going on Hime's head and surrounds.

 

[Captaininvictus]

@mikegnesium I appreciate your gimmick of playing the part of kakeru kurosawa before he became a remotely worthwhile human being. unfortunately for you, there's no waifu who will save you from being an utterly worthless void of meaning.

@manymanyants he's an intense narcissist either in gimmick or reality, you're better off putting him on ignore and giving him nothing more than straight insults because his is a loathsome existence fueled by spite and fate stay night trash

 

[totallynotmike]

[why you link]post where it clearly mentions how internalized transphobia among other things affects the opinion of people

You're just being silly now. "Internalized transphobia"? How was it measured? Do you believe in mind reading?

As to why did I link that, come on - the context is in the post I was replying to (which now I know you've read). Point wasn't to show that "trans people get short end of the stick" (or whatever), but to illustrate that maybe - just maybe - attraction is limited to what's in your potential partner's panties (romantic and sexual kind specifically, which following responses tried to ignore), seeing how even people willing to consider starting a long term relationship with gendered person would still mostly go with their preferred sex.

Now, I don't believe in personality engineering overriding biology, but let's play it through - if internalized whatever were to be the cause of unwillingness to associate with members of certain groups intimately, what's wrong with "conversion therapies"? Is "born that way" a load of crap? Maybe at the very least it's possible to broaden someone's range of attraction. Wouldn't it be a very humane thing to do, given how much oppression and -ism based prejudice is allegedly going on in the world? Why not be in favor of that? Don't be a shithead.
-

Spoiler

I appreciate your gimmick of playing the part of kakeru kurosawa before he became a remotely worthwhile human being. unfortunately for you, there's no waifu who will save you from being an utterly worthless void of meaning.

he's an intense narcissist either in gimmick or reality, you're better off putting him on ignore and giving him nothing more than straight insults because his is a loathsome existence fueled by spite and fate stay night trash

Jeez, how self unaware a person can get? Narcissists man, they can say the darndest things without blinking.

(Hey @@Zephyrus[/USER]]Zephie, regarding what's above, what happened to your favorite "we don't shame others for what they like"? I do remember you choosing not to police personal insults, but how about at least keeping up with the publicly self stated 'rules' you acted on previously when moderating?

 

[Zephyrus]

@mikegnesium
Did you report the comment you feel falls under that category? If you have, then either myself or @Daviot looked at it and determined it did not warrant moderator action.

If you have not, please do so and a forum moderator will examine the report as soon as they're able.

Thanks,

Zeph

 

[totallynotmike]

@Zephyrus

Still full of crap eh? Figures.

edit: Of course you are. You're inconsistent not only within what you do, but also with what you say, and how all of it projects onto your "moderating". A equals B and not C, but sometimes C and not B, and never D, unless the time comes when it does - in some instances anyway.

You're a joke, and you should resign.

 

[Zephyrus]

@mikegnesium
I have grown tired of your constant needling and attempts to bait me into action. Congratulations, you have earned yourself a 2 week vacation from commenting.

Consider how to post in a less mod-provoking way when your hiatus is up.

Thanks,

Zeph

 

[sukaley]

@Letheliah I agree, an "LGBT+ themes" tag is sorely needed. I like reading BL and GL well enough, but there's definitely a clear distinction; they can't be compared to the feelings of relatability and identification I get from mangas like this or Shimanami Tasogare.

 

[Yaramza]

F

 

[passepartout39]

It's nice we are getting more manga about this kind of subject. But there's one thing which bother me a lot: they are so deadset in how they identity themselves despite being so young. I mean they got whole life to discover it.

A bit off topic but still LGBT themed, I recommend https://mangadex.org/title/7262/yuureitou

 

[theHist]

@sukaley same!!!

 

[Letheliah]

@passepartout39 OMG THIS MANGA LOOKS AMAZING!!! Thank you for the recommendation for Yuureitou, I'm definitely going to be checking this one out!!!

EDIT/RAMBLE, probably not the place to put it, but if the trolls are away for a bit I might as well:
I too have some bittersweet feelings about the children being forced to identify and label themselves at such a young age, but I think there's alot of cultural nuance I don't fully understand as I'm not Japanese, and I need to take some time to consider how to word it because it's such a philosophically complicated topic. As this manga parallels reality, I do think despite the MCs youth that the proper thing to do for any child in that situation is to trust and believe their decisions have been long thought out, not rash; so often those of us with queer identities are questioned by those in places of authority in our lives, and that is the earliest form of (often subconscious or unintended) oppression and erasure that we face. This is incredibly true of trans identities seeking to heal their body of dysmorphia, a process always under scrutiny because patriarchal, cisheteronormative run governments regulate medication and the bodies of it's citizens.
We hear "Are you sure?" alot in terms of our queer identity; "Are you sure this isn't a symptom of sexual trauma?", "Are you sure you want to take your girlfriend/boyfriend/significant other to the family holiday party?", "Are you sure you don't just want to be specials?" ^{(Which btw fuck that one, implying both that their identity is fake and that it's wrong to want to take pride in one's uniqueness, I can't tell you how many times I've had that thrown at me}).
It's Not Fun when someone doesn't believe we would willingly choose to call ourselves by this highly dangerous label (queer, and especially trans individuals, are more likely to be attacked than cis/het-passing or closeted individuals). In fact, I am on the opinion that it's not someones job to prove they are indeed this label, but for the person who is unsure and asking to broaden their own perspectives and accept the existence of these different (queer/trans) realities, despite how it might shake up their worldviews a bit. This is actually one of the biggest changes the Anti-Conversion Therapy bans make (in US-state laws that I have read), as it prevents doctors from seeing queer identities as an illness or symptom to be fixed, and forces physicians to start from a place of belief and help patients navigate the struggles they face from there.

Thankfully there's so much progress being made in LGBT+ rights today, but it feels so slow compared to how much struggle and loss there has been in the past, especially considering there are points in history where these identities were readily accepted and studied.

 

[madbottler]

lol sissies

 

[theHist]

@Letheliah
I agree with you so much!!

 

[kazu19]

What, Japan is getting woke as well?

 

[Crystallescent]

Here just to lay down some groundwork:

Akira is a trans girl who has shown attraction to males

Hime is a cis girl who has shown attraction to both males and females (albeit she’s a pretty ambiguous character currently, with her whole questioning arc)

 

[dancingoncrocodiles]

@Crystallescent idk what to build on your ground but you dont need to justify why youre here! read the mange & have fun!!

 

[Maplereads]

let me guess the lgbt is here to frickin to shit

 

[Crystallescent]

@dancingoncrocodiles
?
I just clarified the genders and sexual orientations of the characters since some ppl are confused? Didn’t really justify why I, myself was here?