Kanzen Kaihi Healer no Kiseki - Vol. 3 Ch. 11 - Aim that arrow with the intention to hit me!

[Kayriel]

@mahtan

Your point was based on your viewpoint, not an in-world one. Thus rendering it opinion and having nothing to do with the story. The only reason these people have for looking down on those who don't allocate stats the 'right way' is because in normal circumstances this makes them less reliable in their role than someone who's done 'the right thing' in terms of assigning stat points. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen, but given that they feel that way and I assume they're not ALL elitist assholes, and people have figured out a 'right way' to do it, that means there were a goodly number of people who did it other ways and died/got others killed for being unreliable in their throughput, thus leading to finding out what is and isn't optimal, and the stigma against those who are not considered optimal being burdens on the party.

Unless they show us any other reason why people are this way, from basic deductive analysis this is what is inferred as to why they look down on those without the stat focus/spread they want. This was about their perceptions, not how his personal numbers actually line up.

 

[Mira995]

no wonder they need heros from another world... seems everyone is messing with their exp

 

[zz2000]

Reading the source WN for this, likely the author was more focused on doing the plot as a fluffy cute version of RPG adventure isekai over serious RPG writing; one of her side projects from writing her current main series, Villianess Doted On By Neighbouring Country's Crown Prince (Tiararose x Aquahorse).

Iirc the WN's already completed (6 WN arcs, compiled into 6 LN volumes).
http://mfbooks.jp/books/series/kaihi/

 

[AbuHajaar]

Tfw when no 1 attack 99 strength pure runescape elf gf

 

[nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv]

Honestly, this chapter kind of proves that this world's prejudice against unconventional stat allocation is justified. She can only hit by absolute, pure bullshit luck. Plus, it only works when there's a person like the MC literally baiting the monsters into a confined area. If it weren't for the MC being right there, the monsters would probably charge at the archer. In that time before she gets hit, she can get one, maybe two arrows off, and they'd almost certainly miss. At that point, even if she switches to the back, then she's either completely useless if no monsters come from behind or she's good for one or two more shots at most before she has to flee from monsters coming from behind.

Literally the only reason that this works is because you have a distracting evasion tanker. That's crap.

 

[ASmileToProtect]

LMFAO. What a setup of characters. I love it.

 

[Cerberusyuri]

with that kind of Accuracy whe not just shoot from close combat XD? i mean she can hardly miss if the distance is basicly not existing XD

 

[Rayster]

I do think @mahtan made some good points to some extent but I think elf girl and MC have quite different circumstances to them receiving their poor treatments. I think that elf girl's treatment is not justified enough and more like a convenient plot to make her an ally for MC, but the negative impression of the royalties&co on MC's capability initially are reasonable enough when considering their perspectives, what's unreasonable is the way they handled MC, but they are not good people anyway so it's comprehensible and logical that some bad people just don't care about the well-being of some other people especially the ones that they wanna abuse as tools.

MC's capability was highly expected by the people in the castle as a summoned hero, which is an important role and tool for them, but he told them he's a healer instead of a priest and didn't disclose his stats properly/come clean, coupled up with the general negative perceptions on the eva stat (which isn't useful and substantially effective if not pumped enough) in their world + corruption and schemes of the royalties and nobles + politics and status quo + costs to control and make the heroes to work under them + they probably have better replacements for the healer role like a priest (since they were misguided thinking that mc is just a healer) + basically just arrogance/complacency and bad personality without trying unconventional ways/strategies to work around unusual builds + etc, so it might be that they think eliminating him is more convenient without substantial repercussions (public don't know their existence yet, all the powerful people who know about it in the castle except the summoned heroes agreed to dispose him, the summoned heroes don't have families, friends or any support and physical trace outside the castle yet, none that would affect the powers/influences/reputations of the royalties&co from the public).

On the other hand, I feel that the treatment elf girl got was really kinda extreme and unjustified that her former party should face some penalty for abandoning her like that in the dungeon. I said that because elf girl is a nobody without the burden of a hero, who should be protected by the guild's rules and agreements made with the party in some form, her stats and job are transparently known, her role as a damage dealer isn't unique in her former party, etc that if the party is so dissatisfied with her performance after forming a party with her (knowing her stats/build/abilities given that they could get the info from the guild or ask before forming the party), they could have just removed her from the party After they get out from the dungeon, scold her criticize her whatever, or even demand compensation whatsoever within the agreement or reasonable arrangements that the guild would allow, but it's not what happened. Instead, they just abandoned her in the dungeon (probably the same decision whether or not mc&co were there) before reporting back to the guild, like rationally I don't think the guild's rules allow and approve that unless it's an extreme situation like escaping/fleeing from death/accident that one cannot afford to save other party members in order to survive. After doing that, they also didn't try to really silence/kill mc&co who witness what they do...

With all that said though, I feel that so far there are many stuff too convenient and not well-thought-out so basically this series shouldn't be taken too seriously anyway. IMO, I suppose the author is kinda going for a faux slice-of-life isekai fantasy with convenient dramas as the motivations to push the mc&co to get stronger and go adventures meeting new people and stuff, probably not the kind that has deep complicated concepts and twists with philosophical political existential discussions, which is like a lot of other not-the-highly-acclaimed isekai fantasy series... Disappointing or not, that's pretty clear by now so I think we could just take it easy, read it as long as we still enjoy it or drop it when we aren't liking it anymore.

 

[Rayster]

@nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv ,
Eh I see what you're saying but not really though I don't think the prejudice is justified, unless there are some unrevealed conspiracies or divine being interventions and stuff that affect their minds and the world. To elaborate my points in gaming sense, if it's a protagonist solo single-player game situation then sure unconventional extreme builds could be fun but not a feasible approach if there's only 1 life, but as demonstrated in the story, it's a world that has guild system and adventurers and people can form parties/teams to explore and fight together, it's a multiplayer co-op game situation, people can have different sort of roles with different strengths and weaknesses that can be particularly useful or not under different circumstances against different enemies/situations, they don't 'have to' solo. As long as there are complementary ways to cover each other, unconventional builds could really shine and perform better than average builds though.
Megumi and Darkness (KonoSuba) have extreme builds too and they all managed to work around their issues and hilariously perform pretty well and rather than average characters they are the ones that can do something in some unusual situations like fighting against demon generals. If you have played LoL before, you might also understand what I'm trying to say too that there are glass-cannon builds for adcs/mages and they can work well with a good team with good tanks/supports/etc, or unconventional builds for some champions and it'd work anyway. In the end no matter how strong/weak their abilities are, the players' performance is affected by how well they know how to utilize their abilities and the enemies/opponents, how to work with your teammates and whether they make mistakes too, among many other factors.
Even without an evasive tank, elf girl's build could work and stay useful too with a crowd control mage, or a buff support that can buff her acc or enchant her arrow, or she could learn some skills (if that exist in their world) that usually are unlockable in archer skill trees in rpgs like acc up for short limited time, aoe or dot, setting up traps/poisons, guided/homing arrow, pets/mounts like wolf/eagle, etc, she could even go short range style like acrobat path from Dragon Nest game, or things can be solved just with the right equipment with stats modifiers. She can always only go solo after she's attained stuff that cover her weakness, that doesn't mean her build is useless though, it's just weak and need people support early game but can carry late game type of situation and not even that uncommon/unconventional/creative tbh. I'd say a max def archer would be more confusing but it's still can work as a short range acrobat bruiser/sub-tank. To put it simpler, unconventional builds may suck in solo adventures, but not necessarily the case if they have a complementary team/stuff/skillset and know how to utilize their kits (as shown that now the elf girl found her a complementary support-tank).

 

[megavirus]

This elf, she going bankrupt

 

[nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv]

@Rayster Let me first say I did read all of it. Let me second say I appreciate the response. Let me third say you wrote way too much. Straight wall of text that boils down to: it could possibly be effective if X or Y.

If there's some magic or something to buff your other stats, then that solves everything regardless. However, that proves the point. Imagine a more "balanced" archer who has enough ACC to hit targets and then puts the rest in strength. That would probably be the ideal in this world. The buff magic would help out that person just as much, if not more, than the "unconventional" builds like a pure STR archer. Maybe. Given that we haven't heard anything like that in this story, and people obsess over very hard to get stat points, I have to assume that doesn't exist.

And here's the thing. You get a class. There doesn't seem to be unconventional class usage. Archers stay archers. Healers/clerics stay healers. We haven't seen anyone break that mold, so we have to assume that you can't really break it. If that's the case, going unconventional is like putting a round peg in a square hole. It doesn't match for a reason. Like, why did the elf girl, in her home village, not just pick up a damn spear or sword and go to town on boars? Pump it all into strength and be done. Apparently, that can't happen, and that's the problem here.

Especially in a world where it really is one life, no restarts, it's a liability to have someone who can't match up to their unchanging job. Would you trust someone with your life if you couldn't rely on them to do what you expect them to do? Let me be clear that I don't really support being mean to people, but the general refusal to party with "unconventional" builds makes complete sense here.

 

[Rayster]

@nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv , Thanks for your time haha yea I do feel I wrote a lot but I frequently have a kind of anxiety that if I don't elaborate enough that people don't understand what I'm talking about.

tl;dr :
My problem about this part isn't with the existence of bias, but more about the degree of the bias is so severe that they rather be so dramatic and abandon elf girl like that feeling justified as if it's an approved common practice instead of dismissing her properly or just not form a party with her in the first place (which is what you said about refusing to form a party with her and that'd make sense just fine). I think it's a convenient drama plot the author used to make a character to become mc's new ally (and maybe more later on) and exaggeration of the socio-cultural challenges the mc has to face for being "creative and unique".


Elaboration:
I do agree with your comment about it'd be more common for people to refuse to form a party with unconventional build people and that makes sense, because it's just not for most people/parties and it requires more specific complementary arrangements. I did mention about status quo in a previous comment of mine and that might be related to what you mean by not breaking the mold too, and I guess we could say we agree on that part. The thing is, elf girl's build is the conventional build in her village as what she explained, but only not conventional at where she is now, so I'd assume that there are other people (like other elfs from the same village) who are from all different places that encourage some unconventional builds too to fit their circumstances like elf girl village, and so I'd also assume that while there are less unconventional builds they are still visible enough that most people would have met enough of them to not make it such a big deal (and maybe there will be more of such characters flocking to mc&co). Biased perceptions? Sure. Acting extremely in a way that jeopardizes people's life and feeling justified without concerns of repercussions as if it's pretty normalized? Not convincing enough and thus it's kinda poorly executed and disappointing. Anyway, it could be that I personally find discrimination irrational (in general, in the sense of prejudice) and so I find it more difficult to relate, like they could have just "oh we're not compatible" and move on while handling things properly. Regardless, it's fun to see people's opinions on the rpg elements and how'd the fantasy society be like surrounding those fictional elements. Cheers~

 

[dharman]

Miss (hiroki)! Hit (mole)! Miss (hiroki)! Double hit (moles)! 🤓

 

[Vergift]

I didn't expect 2 characters with unconventional build can cover each other and made a great combo...haha...

 

[Robbini]

@Vergift
Provided you've got people with the right kind of unconventional builds, you could probably make an entire party of such people.
Maybe a Tank with only aggroing and armor/health stats
A Mage with only AOE spells of various sizes & scales
A Priest with extreme amounts of mana, but only some healing spells and low everything else
A Rogue with extreme stealth & speed, but nothing else.
Etc.

 

[Terrate]

Loli Getto!

 

[Armsdealer12]

Low Accuracy, High Attack. Power Shooter then.
Use her as an opener, stow the bow and hold a staff or shield.
There will be buttholes that hate others for not following "meta" everytime.

 

[mangadexcommentban]

There are cases and classes in many games where you have rng damage like her, so in some situation where you need burst damage with a bit of luck the rng damage class will outperform by very far the meta builds. Of course it would never work in a prolonged fight.

 

[Blackheart9009]

This manga's got a weird vibe going on. MC keeps talking about how an evasion healer is a great build, expecting other people to get onboard with the idea, and then gets mildly disappointed when everyone tells him he's an idiot. The weird part is that MC has kind of already acknowledged that the build literally only works for him (considering he basically spawned in as a level 1 with the stat points of a level 150) but still expects people to accept that it's a viable build?
Like to come even close to comparable to his build you would have to be a level 100 with a 50/50 stat split between recovery and evasion. At which point you probably would have been better off only raising recovery and be teamed up with someone defending you; something that you would already have had to do to even reach that level in the first place, considering you're a support class with zero offensive capabilities.

 

[Morsealworth]

@Cerberusyuri Bow isn't a gun. YOu need to draw it and that takes time and space. So in melee enemy can just dodge while you're drawing and chop your hands off.