Keikenchi Chochiku de Nonbiri Shoushin Ryokou ~Yuusha to Koibito ni Tsuihou sareta Senshi no Mujikaku zama~ - Ch. 22

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The fact that it is a fictional story, written by a contemporary author, makes it completely appropriate to judge it by modern standards.

I don’t have a dog in this fight, as most of the revenge genre is trash and I am a trash man, but the argument “it was different then” is inappropriate. Then was no “then” because the story is fictional and the world is fictional (no rpg like magic world around that I know of) and the author has complete control of events and world building.

Personally, I just think the author didn’t have the chops to write an arc about her recovery and opted for a simple solution. That’s fine, but there’s no reason to defend it like this is a documentary.
No, it doesn't. Exactly because it is FICTION that it shouldn't be bound to REAL world standards. Are you going to critic every harem manga there is, since having harem is prohibited in most parts of the world? If what you said made any sense, there wouldn't be a series in the world that would satisfy our standards. Hero comics, horror movies, action movies, comedy, romance, children's books, nothing! Except documentaries. It doesn't matter from what time the author is, IT'S FICTION. You can critic the quality of writing but not the setting, just because "it is wrong where I live".

The argument "it was different then" isn't inappropriate, this manga happens in a medieval time, it makes sense that their beliefs are different than ours, so OBVIOUSLY "it was different then". That way of thinking is limiting the creativity of authors and lowering the quality of works nowadays. Which is the reason why mainstream western comics don't sell anymore.
 
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"I can't believe this healing potion was useful for healing."
Come on, man.

Seems like an appropriate response. I don't think anyone's going to complain about killing that guy. Except that guy. But he's going to be dead, so there's no one to complain.

Should've drank the potion while he was there. If you might go mental from a procedure, you want someone there you know you trust.

This is probably one of the more sane, ironically enough, reasons to make someone a slave I've seen in manga. Suicide prevention. It's still dumb, though, because the problem now becomes that she's going to think about the slave contract as what anchors her to stability, and be reluctant to take the step to not be a slave.

I wonder if this is just a difference of culture?
Yes, it's a difference in culture.

The good part is that they're not too woke. That's a whole other topic, but the Japanese aren't too affected by having to force in elements for the sake of representation or what not.

The bad part is that they still force in their own stereotypes quite frequently. They have their archetypes they want to represent, not for inclusion, but for appeal. As always, these tend to fade away for better, more suitable characters as writing quality improves, though.

Another thing to consider is that as far as I know, the Japanese has a much greater distance between fantasy and reality in stories like these. It's more acceptable to have immoral elements in a story, because ultimately, it's not real, and no one's actually getting hurt. Not that there aren't still idiots who fail at that distinction, but on the whole there's less thought policing.

Often anime detractors and haters often use this terminology, normalization, i'm wondering, are you "normalized" after reading such works? You feel the urge to do the same in the real world?
Most serious studies on fiction vs real actions (video games causing violence notably) have shown that causation is often reversed. It's not that these media create deviant behaviour; it's that deviants are attracted to these media, which creates a correlation.

there's probably a fetish component in there somewhere. pretty lady in chains needs help, so MC helps and he gets an enthusiastic and loyal follower.
There's also a component of safety. A slave can't betray the MC.

The fact that it is a fictional story, written by a contemporary author, makes it completely appropriate to judge it by modern standards.
It's still not supposed to represent a modern world. It's entirely appropriate to judge it by the standards it's supposed to represent, which is a pseudo-medieval world.

On the other hand, judging by modern standards means assuming the characters think and act like modern humans, including what's caused by mass communication, and that makes it miss the mark, because those things don't exist. You're expecting one modern thing to exist without others, and that's cherry picking what to judge it on. It's inconsistent, and therefore inappropriate.
 
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At least in this case the whole "slavery" thing makes sense. He's only having it done so she doesn't kill herself randomly since even if he tried to help her he's not going to be able to babysit her forever. This way she can't do it even if she suddenly wants to when she's alone at some point.

He was incredibly stupid though for giving her the medicine and leaving right after. Did he seriously think she wouldn't take it immediately?
 
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… You can critic the quality of writing but not the setting, just because "it is wrong where I live".

The argument "it was different then" isn't inappropriate, this manga happens in a medieval time, it makes sense that their beliefs are different then ours so OBVIOUSLY "it is different". That way of thinking is limiting the creativity of authors and lowering the quality of works nowadays. Which is the reason why mainstream western comics don't sell anymore.

I’m just going to respond to this and let it go, most of the arguments are going to be on the same line anyway.

People keep trying to reduce this to a moral outrage people are having when it’s wholly a writing problem on the author’s part. It’s contrived and frankly a lazy solution to a complex problem…which is exactly what I said.

I don’t care about real world standards, I care about this fictional world’s standards. Again there is no magic, there’s never been levels or skills, there is absolutely nothing in common with medieval Europe aside from the rpg tropes the story cribs from. Everything about the world building about is cribbed from video games, NOT history, please stop making this argument.

It doesn’t happen “in medieval times” or even in our universe. Read “Vinland Saga” if you want a historical revenge tale (also has slavery but doesn’t get backlash, curious). Or “Lion Coeur Senki” if you prefer isekai.

I think slavish adhering to tropes is limiting creativity way more than so called wokeness destroying western comics. I would actually like a manga that gave even a passing thought to how slavery manifests in their world other than, “it was in the last isekai I read”.

That WOULD be good writing, this isn’t, and has been my only argument, but whatever guess I am just woke.
 
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I’m just going to respond to this and let it go, most of the arguments are going to be on the same line anyway.

People keep trying to reduce this to a moral outrage people are having when it’s wholly a writing problem on the author’s part. It’s contrived and frankly a lazy solution to a complex problem…which is exactly what I said.

I don’t care about real world standards, I care about this fictional world’s standards. Again there is no magic, there’s never been levels or skills, there is absolutely nothing in common with medieval Europe aside from the rpg tropes the story cribs from. Everything about the world building about is cribbed from video games, NOT history, please stop making this argument.

It doesn’t happen “in medieval times” or even in our universe. Read “Vinland Saga” if you want a historical revenge tale (also has slavery but doesn’t get backlash, curious). Or “Lion Coeur Senki” if you prefer isekai.

I think slavish adhering to tropes is limiting creativity way more than so called wokeness destroying western comics. I would actually like a manga that gave even a passing thought to how slavery manifests in their world other than, “it was in the last isekai I read”.

That WOULD be good writing, this isn’t, and has been my only argument, but whatever guess I am just woke.
The architecture is medieval, the quality of life is medieval, the means of transporting is medieval, the social structure is medieval, the economic structure is medieval. Do I need to give more examples why this is a MEDIEVAL fantasy setting?
I would actually like a manga that gave even a passing thought to how slavery manifests in their world other than, “it was in the last isekai I read”.
That didn't make any sense. If you want a documentary about slavery go watch a documentary about slavery.

I think slavish adhering to tropes is limiting creativity way more than so called wokeness destroying western comics.
At what point did I talk about wokeness? Hero tropes was the thing that the MCU had the most. Tropes are just a small part of writing that can be used correctly or badly.
Current western mainstream comics are bad because the author are more preoccupied with thinking about how the story will be received by current standards, instead of thinking about how to make a good story. Besides the fact that most of them were hired for other reasons, that weren't "I'm a good author".
 
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Would be good, but unfortunately is that kind of mc that always forgive vile and evil people so i do not expect any from this, at max a punch in the face. But author can surprise me. :LOL:

ps: anyone who read the light novel know what will happen in the next events?
I haven't read the WN however I've talked with a person that has and I've seen other spoilers and apparently
The hero goes on a raping spree (Including queens) for maybe like 20 chapters ish? until he's caught by the MC then pubicly executed, I think the husbands of the wives he raped beat him up too, not sure though
Also yes the author can surprise you....... There's a massive plot twist
 
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The architecture is medieval, the quality of life is medieval, the means of transporting is medieval, the social structure is medieval, the economic structure is medieval. Do I need to give more examples why this is a MEDIEVAL fantasy setting?

Magic literally negates all of this, in no way is the quality of life or economies the same when any asshole off the street can make water out of thin air and life threatening injuries and sickness are cured with a potion. The rest is, again, rpg tropes. It's a game a telephone at this point.

That didn't make any sense. If you want a documentary about slavery go watch a documentary about slavery.

You know I didn't say that, I said I want better writing, is that clearer? Please just answer this, why does Vinland Saga get near universal praise AND is based in medieval Europe including slavery DEEPLY embedded in the narrative? What's the difference you think?

At what point did I talk about wokeness?

I'm conflating another reply to me, that wasn't you so I appologize for that. The rest is culture war bullshit that I'm not really interested in going back and forth on. Agree to disagree.
 
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actually MC wants to beat the POS down to save his other childhood friend and fiance. He eventually finds out the other girl was sold as a slave. And pretty much hunts him down to save his fiance. When he finally finds him he already got his ass kicked by another demon. Until it's revealed the fiance is the demon lord and basically manipulated the guy so he would be a loser and not a threat which wasn't hard since the brainwashing power already made him a POS anyway. Also bitch killed MC's parents.
After that it was on sight for both. Though he did save the guy. So he would be executed later. He didn't even bother going to the execution.
Although
he does get revived due to the armor the bitch demon lord gave him. Still on sight though. And I have finished the wn so I don't know how it ended.

There are a few other funny details I left out. But that's the basic just.
So if u had to put it into chapters for a manga, how far away are we from THAT? 20-30 chapters?
 
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I need to see Toru kill Sain!! I need this to happen!!!

She says she wants to go back to her village, but honestly I want Nei to stick around and join Toru's party. Maybe getting stronger with Toru than she ever did with Sain would be her way of making up with Toru.
 
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and now he finally know finally so hopefully when he meet that guy again he will finally kill him

if anything will be fun to see what happens when they meet and im hoping mc kills him or something as that mind control guy has been around for to long as is
 
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Cringiest shit I've read in a while. Absolute lmao at twisting a mentally ill person's arm into slavery. That's what happens when the author only has a slavery-shaped hammer. I wonder how many other slaves he'll collect.
 
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What's with Isekai MCs and slavery? I get that most of these are just power-fantasy stories, but this is getting ridiculous lol.
In this case it's medicinal, like in the cute goblin isekai one where the Elf girls all had to be brainwashed by the Demon Lord, or they would have no will to live.
 
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In this case it's medicinal, like in the cute goblin isekai one where the Elf girls all had to be brainwashed by the Demon Lord, or they would have no will to live.
Well, sure. But that doesn't change that this story beat was made so that the MC could get another slave. There's any number of ways they could have resolved this plot without going the slave route, this is just the way that the author wrote it because he wanted another slave in the mix.
 
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I know, right? It seems like Japanese light novel authors just have a thing for glorifying slavery and normalizing pedophilia. Can you imagine if western comics/cartoons tried to have strong themes of slavery and clearly sexualized underage characters the way manga/anime does? People would die.

I wonder if this is just a difference of culture? Do the values of South American or African cultures allow for things like this in their media?
In western comics you don't need paperwork or anything to just adopt a kid you found on the streets, they could be an orphan, or just a latchkey kid that lost his keys, and then it's perfectly alright for you to dress them in a revealing sidekick outfit and take them crime fighting or jumping across rooftops.
 

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