Kenja no Mago - Vol. 7 Ch. 24.5
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good we know now the empire love kill and rape (wrong order?) commoner so we want the demon going to destroy the empire... oh wait already did no need for this would be better if this chapter was before
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... Clearly none of you are literature majors. Flashbacks exist for a reason, when used properly. And this was used properly.
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@CelticMutt Though I'm not as angry about this as everyone else, I do agree this flashback is pointless.
We already saw that the Empire was shitty and corrupt and that horrible things happened to good people in Oliver's flashback. Like another guy said, we can infer from that that he would recruit other people who were screwed by the Empire into his cause, we don't really need to see what happened to those people, specially when it's something so cliche and dumb.
And let's face it, the real issue is that no one gives a shit about these glorified mooks. Oliver's past was of some interest because he is the main antagonist so far but these guys weren't written in any way that would make them interesting or motivate anyone to give half a fuck about them. They are just Oliver's elite subordinates who will face the MC's squad and get murdered, at most a few of them will turn into good guys.
It's the author's fault for writing generic baddies no one cares about and then wasting out time with their ultra-generic sob story which I guess was supposed to make us think them being edgy murderous assholes is somehow justified. Even then, it's quite telling that I would rather side with these guys than with the MC, not because they are well-written but because the MC is an annoying Gary Stu (and yes, I know this is common in isekai, won't stop me from hating it anyway).
We already saw that the Empire was shitty and corrupt and that horrible things happened to good people in Oliver's flashback. Like another guy said, we can infer from that that he would recruit other people who were screwed by the Empire into his cause, we don't really need to see what happened to those people, specially when it's something so cliche and dumb.
And let's face it, the real issue is that no one gives a shit about these glorified mooks. Oliver's past was of some interest because he is the main antagonist so far but these guys weren't written in any way that would make them interesting or motivate anyone to give half a fuck about them. They are just Oliver's elite subordinates who will face the MC's squad and get murdered, at most a few of them will turn into good guys.
It's the author's fault for writing generic baddies no one cares about and then wasting out time with their ultra-generic sob story which I guess was supposed to make us think them being edgy murderous assholes is somehow justified. Even then, it's quite telling that I would rather side with these guys than with the MC, not because they are well-written but because the MC is an annoying Gary Stu (and yes, I know this is common in isekai, won't stop me from hating it anyway).
@WhimsiCat
The tactic was to simply attack the girl. They never expected for it to succeed it was simply to see MC's reaction. The only reason one guy said they could rape her was simply to get the guys motivated and egg them into attacking instead of cowering.
Also the author is not setting up anything like morals for the demon country. If that was the case they would have long went with negotitations with other countries. Most of the ones in control simply want to give their leader Strom a goal because at this point in the story he's done what he wanted and now he probably feels a bit empty.
The tactic was to simply attack the girl. They never expected for it to succeed it was simply to see MC's reaction. The only reason one guy said they could rape her was simply to get the guys motivated and egg them into attacking instead of cowering.
Also the author is not setting up anything like morals for the demon country. If that was the case they would have long went with negotitations with other countries. Most of the ones in control simply want to give their leader Strom a goal because at this point in the story he's done what he wanted and now he probably feels a bit empty.
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@CelticMutt Right? Well, how about you explain how well it was written since I'm not really clever.
Because from my point of view I can only see absurdities:
- Expecting financial support for doing their duty as a soldier during a fucking war?
- Let's connect two neurons, it's stated the brother received a salary, this fact alone is a huge miracle during a war.
- Now a third neuron, they are at least 8 guys, since they should also get a salary can't they help her somehow?
- And what if she doesn't have any financial help? She can work, there's plenty of work during war especially when men are required to become soldier.
- Also, what about their loyalty? Didn't they grow up in this country and received education or training despite being orphan?
- Yeah, you don't choose your country but still, the enemies will just kill because you are born there.
- Making the whole upper management evil is kinda superficial and cliché. Wait, maybe we should also get a flashback about them so they are somewhat likable.
And I can keep forever spouting argument like that but well let's say everything is fine, what's the aftermath? Contribution to killing and raping innocent in several towns.
Ah, unfortunately, I'm not a literature major, I can't appreciate this beautiful flashback which claims our "compassion", but please feel free to enlight me by all mean.
PS: While it may appear that I used an aggressive tone, I don't mean it and don't mean any offense to you. I'm just using this tone and your comment to support how absurd I think this chapter is.
As stated by other this chapter is useless and seeing how absurd is, it just destroyed my whole interest in this manga. So I'm just sad.
Because from my point of view I can only see absurdities:
- Expecting financial support for doing their duty as a soldier during a fucking war?
- Let's connect two neurons, it's stated the brother received a salary, this fact alone is a huge miracle during a war.
- Now a third neuron, they are at least 8 guys, since they should also get a salary can't they help her somehow?
- And what if she doesn't have any financial help? She can work, there's plenty of work during war especially when men are required to become soldier.
- Also, what about their loyalty? Didn't they grow up in this country and received education or training despite being orphan?
- Yeah, you don't choose your country but still, the enemies will just kill because you are born there.
- Making the whole upper management evil is kinda superficial and cliché. Wait, maybe we should also get a flashback about them so they are somewhat likable.
And I can keep forever spouting argument like that but well let's say everything is fine, what's the aftermath? Contribution to killing and raping innocent in several towns.
Ah, unfortunately, I'm not a literature major, I can't appreciate this beautiful flashback which claims our "compassion", but please feel free to enlight me by all mean.
PS: While it may appear that I used an aggressive tone, I don't mean it and don't mean any offense to you. I'm just using this tone and your comment to support how absurd I think this chapter is.
As stated by other this chapter is useless and seeing how absurd is, it just destroyed my whole interest in this manga. So I'm just sad.
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@passepartout39 where is this "war" you keep referencing too? As this chapter was before the fall of blueshire empire? Wasn't it? They seemed to be doing a espionage mission
A solider family normally will receive compensation from a faction should the servicemen die during deployment.
You state that they received education etc from the country but also in chapter they say that they would have died on streets if not Zest picking them up and teaching them so I think its meant to show that lower classes are just to be used by the upper echelon which happened in various civilisations throughout history although they wouldn't last long as would be a huge uprising etc.
Salary they get might just be enough to cover their own food and the sorts due them living in a barrack and being seen as expendable, nothing stated if she was working or not.
@WhimsiCat Not the same group they aren't the zest group that are stating they are "going to do her" towards Sicily in front of Shin. Aren't they the useless devils that left and are being used by Zest.
A solider family normally will receive compensation from a faction should the servicemen die during deployment.
You state that they received education etc from the country but also in chapter they say that they would have died on streets if not Zest picking them up and teaching them so I think its meant to show that lower classes are just to be used by the upper echelon which happened in various civilisations throughout history although they wouldn't last long as would be a huge uprising etc.
Salary they get might just be enough to cover their own food and the sorts due them living in a barrack and being seen as expendable, nothing stated if she was working or not.
@WhimsiCat Not the same group they aren't the zest group that are stating they are "going to do her" towards Sicily in front of Shin. Aren't they the useless devils that left and are being used by Zest.
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@passepartout39
Look up death gratuity. It's a thing. There's nothing wrong with them asking for it.
It may come as news to you but the word salary literally comes from how the Romans paid their soldiers. Hardly a"miracle" that a soldier would be paid.
It's highly unlikely she's just been sitting on her ass solely relying on her brother's salery. There's a thing called finances, even if she's making money, she may not be making enough to live off of. Poor people rarely choose to be poor after all. The 8 of them together may be able to help her, or maybe they're just living paycheck to paycheck like everyone else, without the money to spare.
Do I really need to point out the irony of you saying it's cliche that they're all bad, while at the same time parroting the exact same arguments they use to rationalize dehumanizing treatment of their citizens? And you're presumably a pretty normal person, having not grown up in a country strife with corruption. It's very very easy for individuals to go with the flow, even when the flow is really fucking awful. See; North Korea, the Holocaust, etc.
If you do have more arguments you'd like to make about how the contents of this were unreasonable, I'd be happy to hear them. You should come with something stronger than "those clearly oppressed people are just being whiny" though.
Look up death gratuity. It's a thing. There's nothing wrong with them asking for it.
It may come as news to you but the word salary literally comes from how the Romans paid their soldiers. Hardly a"miracle" that a soldier would be paid.
It's highly unlikely she's just been sitting on her ass solely relying on her brother's salery. There's a thing called finances, even if she's making money, she may not be making enough to live off of. Poor people rarely choose to be poor after all. The 8 of them together may be able to help her, or maybe they're just living paycheck to paycheck like everyone else, without the money to spare.
Do I really need to point out the irony of you saying it's cliche that they're all bad, while at the same time parroting the exact same arguments they use to rationalize dehumanizing treatment of their citizens? And you're presumably a pretty normal person, having not grown up in a country strife with corruption. It's very very easy for individuals to go with the flow, even when the flow is really fucking awful. See; North Korea, the Holocaust, etc.
If you do have more arguments you'd like to make about how the contents of this were unreasonable, I'd be happy to hear them. You should come with something stronger than "those clearly oppressed people are just being whiny" though.
Honestly, I can't muster any empathy for these people. They supposedly only cared about overthrowing the empire, but when Strom was satisfying with doing just that, they have been getting greedier and turning their ambitions outside of the country. The fact that they do so means that they are no longer existences worth caring for.
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@EmptyNight Oh! I didn't knew about the origin of salary. Pretty interesting, thank you.
I think we are not talking in the same context. Certainly in some case, like in WW2 american soldier were paid but yes, it's a miracle, just because it was a word meaning for soldiers it has nothing to do with soldier being actually paid.
Because in most of case you become a soldier when your country is currently under direct attack meaning your home is in danger, I hope you won't wait for a paycheck in order to protect your home, you'll end badly.
You guys think soldier as a modern profession with some labor law, like becoming one is a choice. It's not in most countries.
You can't possibly reward the family of every soldier DURING a war. It's way after the reconstruction. And depending on the country only for high-ups.
You need to stop thinking about the treatment of soldier in a developed country is the same everywhere and was always like that. It's not. And this is where this chapter fail so much, especially since it has kinda a medieval settings.
Maybe. We just don't have enough information about that. But again, during a war, most of moms found a way to deal with it. So yeah I can't imagine she can't possibly live by herself alone. At worse in this medieval settings, there's some dorm-atelier for women (they mainly do sewing).
I would appreciate you don't make more prejudice, thank you. As I said I think your vision of "soldier" is one like a profession. Be realist, in a country under attack and as a soldier, you don't have the luxury to think about the corruption of your country nor the capacity to do anything about that.
This doesn't even matter. You are born somewhere and being taken care of by adults. It's not even about patriotism or being an orphan, it's about your home. You just don't have any choice.
And so, to conclude, killing all the upper management and replacing them with soldier sound a pretty solid plan for the whole country.
I think this will never end tho since our visions are too different.
I think we are not talking in the same context. Certainly in some case, like in WW2 american soldier were paid but yes, it's a miracle, just because it was a word meaning for soldiers it has nothing to do with soldier being actually paid.
Because in most of case you become a soldier when your country is currently under direct attack meaning your home is in danger, I hope you won't wait for a paycheck in order to protect your home, you'll end badly.
You guys think soldier as a modern profession with some labor law, like becoming one is a choice. It's not in most countries.
You can't possibly reward the family of every soldier DURING a war. It's way after the reconstruction. And depending on the country only for high-ups.
You need to stop thinking about the treatment of soldier in a developed country is the same everywhere and was always like that. It's not. And this is where this chapter fail so much, especially since it has kinda a medieval settings.
Maybe. We just don't have enough information about that. But again, during a war, most of moms found a way to deal with it. So yeah I can't imagine she can't possibly live by herself alone. At worse in this medieval settings, there's some dorm-atelier for women (they mainly do sewing).
I would appreciate you don't make more prejudice, thank you. As I said I think your vision of "soldier" is one like a profession. Be realist, in a country under attack and as a soldier, you don't have the luxury to think about the corruption of your country nor the capacity to do anything about that.
This doesn't even matter. You are born somewhere and being taken care of by adults. It's not even about patriotism or being an orphan, it's about your home. You just don't have any choice.
And so, to conclude, killing all the upper management and replacing them with soldier sound a pretty solid plan for the whole country.
I think this will never end tho since our visions are too different.
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@passepartout39 I just want to point out they weren't mere conscripted soldiers, they were part of an espionage unit meaning that they probably were professional soldiers.
This, of course, only makes the nobles into even bigger idiots since antagonizing your fucking intelligence agencies is like the most stupid thing someone could possibly do.
This, of course, only makes the nobles into even bigger idiots since antagonizing your fucking intelligence agencies is like the most stupid thing someone could possibly do.
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@Acolytus If you're saying it's a given they are paid because they are "professional" then that's exactly why I didn't make any difference in my posts. You guys are too influenced with how soldiers are treated by a developed country which has human rights, labor law, school, etc ...
It's not the case for all countries. Far from it.
I'm not saying soldier shouldn't get paid, but that how it works. You are lucky if you think it's a given.
It's not the case for all countries. Far from it.
I'm not saying soldier shouldn't get paid, but that how it works. You are lucky if you think it's a given.
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In Kenja no Mago the Government reform is a Monarchy with a feudal system in the medieval ages...
This means;
That there should be a King who has his Royal army.
There should also be other Noble familys the King has ties with who he granted land and titles, who will then aid him as they swore an oath of fealty. And this is a system build of loyalty and trust.
Each Nobel family has their own army and will aid the King, the leader positions in those armys mostly consist of people from the Noble family and are Knights which have apprentices such as squires.
Since those familiys get taxes from their citizens and pay a part of those taxes to the King they obviously get payed, the same goes for the trained Knights by said familys.
The lower folk are just people who live in a part of the land the King granted those familys and become by the order of their lord during war foot soldiers.
I highly doubt they get paid. Also their loyalty isnt as strong tho but heck this is way too complicated just watch Game of Thrones duh
Money is power :-D just look at the Lannisters even the King can do shit about them
This means;
That there should be a King who has his Royal army.
There should also be other Noble familys the King has ties with who he granted land and titles, who will then aid him as they swore an oath of fealty. And this is a system build of loyalty and trust.
Each Nobel family has their own army and will aid the King, the leader positions in those armys mostly consist of people from the Noble family and are Knights which have apprentices such as squires.
Since those familiys get taxes from their citizens and pay a part of those taxes to the King they obviously get payed, the same goes for the trained Knights by said familys.
The lower folk are just people who live in a part of the land the King granted those familys and become by the order of their lord during war foot soldiers.
I highly doubt they get paid. Also their loyalty isnt as strong tho but heck this is way too complicated just watch Game of Thrones duh
Money is power :-D just look at the Lannisters even the King can do shit about them
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@Reality 'cause the translators have multiple ways to do it that could potentially be right and they wouldn't know which one actually is right until something official surfaces, and I feel like there's been at least two or three different translators so far so the ways they decided to do it just ended up being different or maybe someone found something official to reference for name spellings. I could probably verify that from checking the credit pages and such along the way, but I'm already used to this happening in fan projects so I don't really mind it that much by now.
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these guys are more interesting than the main cast lol
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