Kingdom - Ch. 789 - The Final Wall

[Kushinda]

We've seen superhumans before, this guy is another Houken.

I think the difference is that Houken got an entire character arc and like 50+ chapters of anticipation before we even see him outside of a flashback, and really he never felt like utter bullshit the way Shibashou does.

 

[Grimmycoffee]

I think the difference is that Houken got an entire character arc and like 50+ chapters of anticipation before we even see him outside of a flashback, and really he never felt like utter bullshit the way Shibashou does.

Hmm, I think we really only got the character arc near the end and I really don't remember him changing or adapting much from his first appearance as a Dynasty Warriors character of this setting, to almost dying to Ousen, and dying to Shin.


And I think compared to the one charge here, Houken feels way more annoying. At least here, his attack is supported by his troops and strong subordinates.


Might be wrong though! It's been quite a while since I last read those.chapters.

 

[Kushinda]

And I think compared to the one charge here, Houken feels way more annoying. At least here, his attack is supported by his troops and strong subordinates.

I think that's actually why Houken feels less annoying to me. Houken from the outset is presented as the exception to all the rules. He's not a general, he's not a soldier, really he isn't even a warrior. The dude is presented as, and feels like, he comes from a different world than the rest of the players in the manga. The fact that he isn't part of the standard rules is what makes him ironically feel more fair, yes he's a copout but he's a copout by design, a copout is all he'll ever be.

He doesn't have a retinue, he doesn't command an army, he isn't driven by any loyalties or any base desires, nobody really respects him or looks up to him, he's not a national hero of any stripe, he has no history that isn't personal, he doesn't have a trusted friend or a close rival (unless you count Shin but Houken never sees Shin as a rival and never treats him like one). Houken is literally nothing but a walking exception to all the patterns, and that's what makes him kind of acceptable. We are also shown in the very arc he becomes relevant that he has real weaknesses and is fundamentally flawed; it's the kind of flaw that 1. makes sense in retrospect 2. gives a real hope for his eventual defeat and 3. is an actual flaw that isn't "heh, he was too strong for his own good".

Meanwhile Shibashou by all appearances is just Moubu, but more powerful, more bullshit, with even more tier 3 cavalry in his army, with less foreshadowing, less backstory, and coming at the tail end of something like fifty new characters none of whom survived more than one arc. Shibashou is not presented as an exception, but he still doesn't obey the rules, and he feels like just the latest bullshit hand trap that Riboku has that's robbing us of a good confrontation between some of pre-Imperial China's biggest strategic masterminds. The only difference between Shibashou and the tunnel is that Shibashou breathes.

 

[Grimmycoffee]

I think that's actually why Houken feels less annoying to me. Houken from the outset is presented as the exception to all the rules. He's not a general, he's not a soldier, really he isn't even a warrior. The dude is presented as, and feels like, he comes from a different world than the rest of the players in the manga. The fact that he isn't part of the standard rules is what makes him ironically feel more fair, yes he's a copout but he's a copout by design, a copout is all he'll ever be.

He doesn't have a retinue, he doesn't command an army, he isn't driven by any loyalties or any base desires, nobody really respects him or looks up to him, he's not a national hero of any stripe, he has no history that isn't personal, he doesn't have a trusted friend or a close rival (unless you count Shin but Houken never sees Shin as a rival and never treats him like one). Houken is literally nothing but a walking exception to all the patterns, and that's what makes him kind of acceptable. We are also shown in the very arc he becomes relevant that he has real weaknesses and is fundamentally flawed; it's the kind of flaw that 1. makes sense in retrospect 2. gives a real hope for his eventual defeat and 3. is an actual flaw that isn't "heh, he was too strong for his own good".

Meanwhile Shibashou by all appearances is just Moubu, but more powerful, more bullshit, with even more tier 3 cavalry in his army, with less foreshadowing, less backstory, and coming at the tail end of something like fifty new characters none of whom survived more than one arc. Shibashou is not presented as an exception, but he still doesn't obey the rules, and he feels like just the latest bullshit hand trap that Riboku has that's robbing us of a good confrontation between some of pre-Imperial China's biggest strategic masterminds. The only difference between Shibashou and the tunnel is that Shibashou breathes.

I guess? I just don't remember that characteristic and "weakness" presented as anything more than something bad for the series.

I don't like the more mystical aspect (especially the assassins story when they get more thorough, instead of "secret clan" and leave it at that) and the weakness doesn't seem to really mean much aside from Ouki's one last spit at Houken before he died. I think it's kinda implied that Shin won because he has comrades, but since everyone just stay in the back and stare at their brawl/duel, I don't find it super convincing.

In my memory, Houken is the OP Dynasty Warriors character that the author forgot to do anything interesting with. Neat concept, but that's all he is.

At least this guy has a troop behind him, pierce through formation with a cavalry charge, and his comrade doesn't just cut clean through everyone but actually lost and die.

Then again, it has been quite a while since I last read Houken's chapters, so my memory might be wrong.

 

[Kushinda]

I think it's kinda implied that Shin won because he has comrades, but since everyone just stay in the back and stare at their brawl/duel, I don't find it super convincing.

In my memory, Houken is the OP Dynasty Warriors character that the author forgot to do anything interesting with. Neat concept, but that's all he is.

I mean this is a battle shounen, but Houken lost more or less because he was never all that. Riboku even outright says that Houken might've gotten to peak performance for humans, but he's still just a dude. He's not Dynasty Warriors, he just thinks he is.

 

[Luoir]

why hasn't anyone slain his horse already? cavalry is only effective in their charge, once they are slowed down or stopped they are dead, you bring down the horse, the ride falls and you stab him from 20 different directions...

also why isn't he even sweating or panting from exhaustion? i get he's OP and all that but he just fought his way through an entire army and hasn't broken a single sweat, even shin gets tired and he has the power of plot...

The only horse I've ever seen actually died in MC's first horse.