Kodoku no Kochou wa Donna Yume wo Miru no ka? - Ch. 12

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Why is no one talking about how lyu's eye bug reflection does NOT look like the black bug in our mc's???? Whats up with that??? Is it a way (from what I'm reading from the comments) to side line her off the romance path so reika makes more sense because she becomes her own queen or new towa type (whatever the fuck her bug species is called) bug to replace towas crazy ass? I'm always going hm when i read this damn manga! :qq:
 
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I start to lose interest, author go extra miles to make Reika hateable, even now ? it already more than enough before.
Also it doesn't it kinda nonsense, not because she is bad, but she bad in a way just for the sake of being bad, Kinda look like these B-plot drama show that Asian mother and grandmother show watching, just make the bad bitch bitching MC so much, then later make MC "show them their place.
of course there could be more than meet the eye, but for now it doesn't look good.
 
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Why is no one talking about how lyu's eye bug reflection does NOT look like the black bug in our mc's???? Whats up with that???
It’s probably the immature form.
Alas, I think everyone got different form (even Towa and Reika who are in the same faction). The symbol in Iyu’s eyes are also different from Ayumi’s in earlier chapters.
Want to check if it’s similar to Raika’s because Iyu feels like the Hufflepuff kind of personality, but Mimishiki often skips on drawing the crest unless when it’s featured prominently.

The insects seems to work in an “do you want power” way. If the host have strong desire and is ready to sacrifice something, the insect will make the deal.

And if it turns out the bug initially made Reika go Full Zealot for Towa in the first place (abnormal larva? no clue if that's even at thing that can happen, so I won't go injecting lore wholecloth beyond just the guess), then Ayumi "resetting/overwriting" the larve by re-dying Reika would ostensibly allow for Reika to come back as her old self.
Would be a laugh if the insects also have individuality.
Like the other white butterflies are elitist but not as fanatic as Reika. So if her insect’s basic personality is “worshipping my queen zealously”, then Ayumi would be the next target ^^;;

Also well, might be interesting if Reika’s insect is white queen candidate.
Towa sending her off without any regards just because she can wouldn’t be that out of character for her anyway.
 
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I wonder why the transformation into a noble butterfly warped Reika's personality so so much. Like obviously she really admired and looked up to and perhaps even loved Ayumi before. I wonder why is was that losing part of herself to the awakening of the insect altered those feelings so much. I mean, it's good writing, and I look forward to the obvious conclusion of the duel (Ayumi kicks her ass), but I wonder what that will mean for Reika. I can't imagine you just magically fix whatever happened to her by dying her a different color. Perhaps she dies, perhaps she becomes a mindless drone. That would be fitting given her distaste for the seemingly mindless bugs they fight. I guess we'll see.
 
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Having gone back and read through things from the start again, a few traits shine through quite noticeably in pre-butterfly Reika;

She has a very obvious sense of inferiority towards Ayumi, even acknowledging in her brief perspective extra as a butterfly that she wanted to be more like Ayumi back then.

She's deeply possessive towards people she holds affection towards. We see this in the flashbacks when Iyu and Ayumi start getting close and Reika immediately got between them.

And she obssessively fawns over Ayumi as a candidate. If we're being generous this could simply be due to her obvious affection towards Ayumi, but with her acknowledgements (at the time) of Ayumi being so strong (among the Candidates, at least) it could easily be a sign that she has a tendency to cozy up and fawn over those with power- exactly what she does with Towa.

Also, less of a specific thing, but she was pretty crazy as a candidate, too. So much has happened and it's been so long I kinda forgot about the finger-bite in the opening of chapter 1.

Anyway, this got kinda rambly- point being, it doesn't seem like the insect necessarily changed that much, beyond making her way more extreme and shifting her loyalties. She still is clearly driven by a relationship to Ayumi's power- at first desperate to catch up, turning to gloating and glee when she became more powerful than Ayumi, and now shock and horror as she is once again inferior. She's still fawning over the most powerful object available- formerly Ayumi, now Towa. And she's still deeply possessive of her target ("look only at me"). The only real big change seems to be the hatred towards Ayumi, which could be due to the bug enforcing Towa-loyalty, her twisted power complex, or both.
 
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Damn, i forgot about this manga. I guess it's now a bimonthly release? Thanks for the tl btw
 
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Why is no one talking about how lyu's eye bug reflection does NOT look like the black bug in our mc's???? Whats up with that??? Is it a way (from what I'm reading from the comments) to side line her off the romance path so reika makes more sense because she becomes her own queen or new towa type (whatever the fuck her bug species is called) bug to replace towas crazy ass? I'm always going hm when i read this damn manga! :qq:
(had to split it into multiples due to 20 image cap)

I just went through the entire thing to check since I noticed that immediately too, but something to note is no one else's seals are shown aside from Ayumi's
ch1 p10
c8368576-4f9b-4488-b475-a83498e277a3.png

ch1 p11 (it also disappears on pg12 even though we see her scratch marks which is a ruinning issue with this since the mangaka often just does not bother drawing it...) (also the seal is slightly different in this single shot for some reason with the lower marks pointing down instead of horizontal yet go back to horizontal later...)
b7ca6cd3-a1cb-4089-84aa-94ba0fab0fe5.png


until ch2 p14 where we barely see Towa's seal and presumably this itself is the seal the pieris rapae
71d0a519-b2d6-4cb5-ad28-822d54e32e54.png

image.png

but if that is true then Ayumi's seal being different then makes you presume that her seal is the seal of a candiate or at least the seal of a pieris rapae in particular (i'll get back to this when we get to Iyu's seal reveal).

From here we see do not see another seal till ch3 p6 where we see the pieris rapae corps training
4a2da9d1-a269-40a0-8067-cc008f89e542.png

image.png

who have the same seal as Ayumi originally had and has at this point in time. Their seal is also similar; yet, different to their queen's suggesting that the queen's seal might be different in detail to their seals.

from there we next see the next seal is Ayumi's again towards the end of the chapter on p39 (and can see it back to being horizontal and not pointing down shrug )
09e39329-3d7c-428c-9308-fa126c5fe5c0.png


From there we see the seal of the papilio protenor shows up on ch4 p18
778b5f2b-6d54-40cf-b0ae-7f449edc50d2.png


and not properly shown until p35
233b9c50-bd43-411b-85df-2d18a90ecbac.png

where it is the first time we see it awaken in someone's eyes (something relevant for later) (also it disappears from her eye for all of ch6 probably for the same reason the marks constantly disappear and are not drawn in the first place)

we then see her seal properly changed on ch6 p9 & 10
cf2bbfb5-dcd2-4cba-8ecb-3ede6c57feac.png

49491ae1-7038-4111-bcdd-268bd060a209.png


and we see it again on p15 while Reika's is not (we see it later)
421e40bc-ec61-4947-94c0-510b37a6a1a8.png


it is then briefly seen on p32 at the end of the chapter
33e31076-75f3-43fe-8115-2997a83a3580.png


in ch7 after Towa gets done borderline SA'ing Ayumi, we see it in the bath
631666ee-cc4f-4179-a31b-9ed888fb76f1.png

right before Towa intentionally tries to piss off the "flea"

ch7 p12
bdbb462f-c5ab-43e5-8cef-2703299850a1.png

p13 (note Towa's seal is not appearing here like Ayumi's is. Idk what this means, but it is interesting)
029050a1-aac3-4b13-a57f-73cc78382009.png

p14
b0286804-dc75-4b13-a4dc-5e0facea921d.png

p15
fc23ace2-075a-4567-8301-3070d85bae81.png

p17
f0b91c88-ced8-43ba-b4f9-59b8ef8da5d2.png


and later on p34 in her eyes again which seems to happen when Ayumi is feeling intense emotions like anger)
718457ba-17f3-41fe-a8ff-96f68e8bbcec.png
 
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Why is no one talking about how lyu's eye bug reflection does NOT look like the black bug in our mc's???? Whats up with that??? Is it a way (from what I'm reading from the comments) to side line her off the romance path so reika makes more sense because she becomes her own queen or new towa type (whatever the fuck her bug species is called) bug to replace towas crazy ass? I'm always going hm when i read this damn manga! :qq:
p35 (also they disappear from her eyes which could be suggesting she is controlling her anger if my guess is correct; albeit, no one else does this outside the papilio protenor faction suggesting it to be exclusive to them)
edcdf237-fd0f-4fa2-8903-c9c323c533ee.png


From there it shows briefly when she is going to meet Iyu on ch8 p3
a99390a6-6fb4-4fe0-b92f-f0e0e744e8d2.png


and on p32 we finally see a non-pieris rapae faction membre's seal being Iyu's
2acc7bff-decc-459c-94ce-d9e9ff62ee7c.png

though we do not know if it is the seal of a polygonia c-aureum, her birth faction, or if it is mutated or even in the process of mutating (the seal we see in her eye later is very similar to this one and can easily be the same seal or a more mutated form of it if it is mutating).

before the chapter ends we finally see Towa's seal again
5e20bc0b-f7ad-41ee-a8c3-dbea34010123.png

where it is less spikey than it was originally, hence I think Iyu's seal in ch12 is just a more detailed version of the same seal rather than it actually being different personally

on p36 we see Ayumi's seal for the last time before meeting the other queens not seen so far
8e954426-f902-466d-9bee-53fd8ca2055d.png


in ch9 p1 we can see what looks like the first ever crest not of the pieris rapae and papilio protenor factions
2bf05d49-0031-45dc-8113-2a822082cdcb.png

image.png


which is confirmed to be a seal and shown in more detail on the next page
97a895b3-6319-4a1c-b630-5923afb52db6.png

to be the seal of the araschnia levana

on p5 we then partially see the seal of the polygonia c-aureum
512249d8-5f02-46ec-96cb-b7f3f637a2b0.png

which noteably seems to be different than Iyu's seal with her seal having a floating dot above it's main body unlike Iyu's. This further suggests the queens seals are different from their membres, or that Iyu's is a different seal from the polygonia c-aureum even at this point.

from there on p7 & 8 we see Himiko's and Ayumi's seals again
cbf97b92-e011-41a7-9428-7632975e3bf7.png

eaf27246-080b-4fdd-a3e4-eff6c2c2fbb3.png

which preludes their fight

(you can also partially see Himiko's and Ayumi's fully on p12)
c1fd60c0-56f6-4ca5-a2b5-26b3495b08c0.png


on p18 we finally see Himiko's seal fully
56b73384-0a54-44dc-a760-180e1a59328f.png


on p22 during the fight we get a brief better view of Raika's seal
96ec3752-dcf0-41aa-9cf0-fe205925c9de.png

which for some reason looks remarkably similar to Himiko's (we also see Ayumi's again)

on p28, 29, 30, and 32 we then see Ayumi's again a few more times
39cb1a3d-cdad-4013-8fd6-c9e37df85fd9.png

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02518184-37e6-4071-9e6f-6400f39a2fd5.png

with the last one showing in her eye again which to this point the only other one to do so is Iyu who was directly affected by her desires for the papilio protenor queen and as such might be related to that as we see Himiko's blood boiling but is not doing that here.
 
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Why is no one talking about how lyu's eye bug reflection does NOT look like the black bug in our mc's???? Whats up with that??? Is it a way (from what I'm reading from the comments) to side line her off the romance path so reika makes more sense because she becomes her own queen or new towa type (whatever the fuck her bug species is called) bug to replace towas crazy ass? I'm always going hm when i read this damn manga! :qq:
on ch9.5 p1 we finally see Reika's seal
7b4a9fa5-d8d4-4ac0-a635-f69abaf8e6a8.png

where we see it is identical to Ayumi's original one as well as the other pieris rapae basically confirming this to be their seal beyond any shadow of doubt.

on ch10 p1 & 2 we see Ayumi in her battle form which shows her seal once again
ce839bd1-400c-475f-be84-1aa6e05f86c5.png

5e80d795-3924-4245-a34b-133823457574.png

though something to note is Raika here says her insect responds to Ayumi's intense strength to which Kyou confirms her's also is responding; but, all four (including Himiko's here and Towa's in the bath) respond in different ways that I think is of note. Kyou's wants to flee which later correlates to Maria's easy to fright nature and her tendency to flee and hide suggesting this is a trait of celastrina arigolus. Himiko's responds with... I honestly can't tell. She describes it as excitement and appears turned on; yet, is acting like the insect is causing her pain while describing it as "thrashing around" inside her. This however is reminiescent of Iyu's desire to possess Ayumi and craving her affection, touch, her whole being to belong to her. Something that may be being expressed here and as such polygonia c-aureum may be quite possessive. Towa's responds with a desire to subjugate and dominate, even resorting to calling it a "flea" in anger for resisting her; which, are traits we see in pieris rapae in general all seeing themselves as superior, dominant, and the candiates as a subjugated force. And finally Himiko's responds with anger and a desire to fight and destroy a percieved threat or rival. I think Towa describes it pretty well on p6 where she says
2d42aa12-e93f-459e-abf0-9b8731d862e6.png

the pieris rapae find it to be interesting, the araschnia levana a threat to be destroyed, the celastrina argiolus to find it dangerous and something to fear, and the polygonia c-aureum instinctively wanting to raise their standing in it's eyes to avoid danger. This coming from a very biased source so no doubt is very scewed, but something of note is it actually represents the four adrenal responses:

  • Fight (araschnia levana and to less of an extent peris rapae)
  • flight & freeze (celastrina arigolus)
  • fawn (polygonia c-aureum) (if do not know what fawn is, it is named after the response of a newborn fawn doing affectionate behaviour to predators out of fear, and is normally only seen in heavy abuse victims where they subconciously try to be in good standing with the abuser to avoid being abused)
(btw you see Towa's seal there again)

on p7 you then see Himiko's seal again
b71743d8-3c30-48ac-81b7-04067328871e.png


followed by Ayumi's on p13 being in her eye again
4486457f-60b0-4c08-b9d0-89cba8b1a1f4.png


which we then see Himiko expressing bloodlust p12 & 13 (this is 13) and does not have her seal in her eyes so it does seem to be unique to papilio protenor or if not has some undefined criteria
73d1c96b-7c9e-4006-a4ba-2de6f7c6c0e9.png


on p23 we then see all of them with their seals (-Kyou who's covering it with her kimono)
c593126b-2a71-4054-87b1-d463d8fe978e.png

image.png

and is noteably the first time we see Raika's seal and it is indeed nothing like Iyu's seal (albeit the detail is super low)

on p30 we see Ayumi's in the most detail shown so far
f2807281-8de1-432a-821b-fdcc04933163.png


but on 32 we see her eyes do not have them even when filled with extreme emotions
c8cf438a-6343-46ca-a697-472c402f34ac.png


on 33 we see how ripped Ayumi is with the last time her seal is shown that chapter
896febbf-df8d-4aa3-803e-850b6d87d47b.png


ch11 p1 we see Ayumi again
77dbe734-dac1-405e-96f7-a769745febd7.png


while not a seal on ch11 p23 we see the only time we see the true appearance of the insects
ea33c0cd-1535-48a3-8f3c-6b9b1dabc66f.png


and on ch11 p35 we see Reika's seal for the first time in a main chapter (honestly did not even notice you could see it until I went looking now)
0b1783a0-a0be-4ceb-957d-4ed6dc818738.png
 
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Why is no one talking about how lyu's eye bug reflection does NOT look like the black bug in our mc's???? Whats up with that??? Is it a way (from what I'm reading from the comments) to side line her off the romance path so reika makes more sense because she becomes her own queen or new towa type (whatever the fuck her bug species is called) bug to replace towas crazy ass? I'm always going hm when i read this damn manga! :qq:
which finally brings us to this chapter where we see Reika's on p5
b932155a-34cc-49de-ac28-c5aed07f3a01.png


p7
9dfd7692-a243-44ba-aa47-9461cbe985b7.png


Himiko's on p9
dffdd25f-0fd2-451a-8979-26106f9ef64d.png


Reika's again on p10
391c5856-2060-4898-9c48-2a9b11b23765.png


Iyu's on p28
2615b4ea-a17e-42da-9adf-c788378138bf.png

Which looks nearly identical to how it looked the first time we seen it just with slightly more detail this time. Though as I have said before Iyu is the only other person to have her seal appear in her eye as not even Towa does.

and finally on p29 & 30
9a20d1be-2199-4fd9-b642-8d713c46a377.png

46a4d97f-f50a-464a-95d0-f361284c8cf2.png

We see Ayumi's with a subtle narrative thing going on here as we see Ayumi's right eye only where it has a seal in it; however, we only see Iyu's left eye where it has a seal in it and if you put them side by side
image.png

you see the mangaka is intentionally trying to draw a parallel between Iyu and Ayumi with the likely parallel being Ayumi and Iyu are both fighting for their future together and as such the parallel being they are the other's half which is an interesting imagery to show given Reika originally being part of it as Ayumi even says
I pictured the three of us... staying together forever.
which is Ayumi clearly stating that, that dream is shattered. That her convictions stand firm. She knows Reika hates her guts by her own admission
... I know her hatred for me is genuine.
where as Iyu very clearly wants Ayumi to be her's and is willing to fight for it just as Ayumi is, but potentially hinting at a conflict between Ayumi and Iyu (plz no, just let them get married I swear... :shamihuh:), as this is often shown for rivals and arch-enemies before a climatic battle (you see this with enemies turned friends too like Vegeta and Goku), but also has Iyu's being white while Ayumi's black which is noteable as at the end of ch10 the tag says
image.png


which is on the surface in reference to Towa, and by extention, the pieris rapae, becoming Ayumi's enemies (white vs black), but as Iyu is white here it might be saying Iyu will become her enemy in the future just to ruin the story to force Reika x Ayumi (which everyone would hate). So there is a lot of subtle things going on here with their eyes and it only time will tell how it plays out.







(I probably could have made this shorter, but I felt walking through it would also help others catch up on things anyway)
 
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Want to check if it’s similar to Raika’s because Iyu feels like the Hufflepuff kind of personality, but Mimishiki often skips on drawing the crest unless when it’s featured prominently.
Iyu's
image.png
image.png


Raika's (the only time you can fully see it)
image.png
 
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Thanks for tracking down all the crests!

So, black butterfly seems to be the first where the crest doesn’t have “body” of the butterfly isn’t it?
White, red, and yellow all have the base three pointed shape (body + pair of front wings).
 
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I wonder if Ayumi's eyes change when she's feeling strong emotions to fight/protect, rather than simply strong emotions in general? When she declares her hatred of Towa, no Butterfly Eye. But every time it shows up during combat or during "strong emotions" (going off the incredible compilation work of @OnewingedMasios ) that seem to revolve around the situation involving the need to defend or protect, either actively or in the sense of having conviction/intent to do so.

The fact that Iyu is the only other one to have the Eyes thing at this point does seem to point toward a mutation of some kind. I don't know if she's also a surprise Candidate, or if the intensity of her feelings toward Ayumi are having a reverse effect on her insect (usually it's one-way with the insect parasitizing the host's emotions/ego, maybe hers is somehow overwhelmed because she's in the "fawn faction" to borrow the threat response breakdown from @OnewingedMasios ) that would otherwise be docile and passive, but she's actually quite intense underneath, and that dissonance is affecting her insect and changing it.
The "emotions" aspect also ties into Ayumi's faction's foundational motif, since it seems that her Eyes appear off emotional triggers. If Ayumi's trigger is "protection", maybe Iyu's is "Desire". We haven't really seen the other candidates gifted (blech) Ayumi by the other two Queens, but perhaps they'll also exhibit similar changes as we get focus on them, assuming they stick around and don't get killed off in some crisis before that point.

If/when Reika loses to Ayumi, I wonder if she'll get something similar to tie her into the original trio with the other two. I think if she doesn't, that will be significant, though - especially as it seems she desires power/proximity to, and maybe she sees herself as more deserving of being "under" the Queen (Towa or Ayumi), which is distinct from Iyu's. Or since she's already Noble-ized, maybe it's too late to have any shift for her and she'll simply because a defeated husk of her former self under Ayumi's charge.

I really can't wait for the next chapters now, haha
 
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Well, I really hope that it will be handled differently.
When it comes to how things were playin in my head from there, it was either
1)
Reika loses, and her Jealousy(from your spoiler), or whatever it is that happened when she joined the butterflies gets exposed either by her or by Towa (For example, that it's "interesting" that a butterfly would be enviouse of a caterpillar, but now that Ayumi's a Queen, it's no longer "interesting") - whether becoming dyed, or staying white after the fight, she'd still be apprehensive and sour - regularly chiding Ayumi for not being a regal Queen or more like Towa. Until more character development from both, later.
2) either Reika loses, or it's a draw. Reika falls apart from power overuse and her "bug" takes over the reigns while she's too weak/broken to come up to the surface. We get inhuman "La creatura" character in Reika's body, while she recovers. This way we've get a weird POV character to contrast Ayumi's disdain/contempt of her own bug and Reika gets to witness Ayumi's kindness again - I imagine a simillar character plot to either B
★RS's Yui Yuu/Strength or Tsukiiro no Invader (but less Romance and more drama)

Imo, both sound better, at least to me, than what feels like
Killing off a barely developed character for drama, and being asshole to the MC in particular. I can be oversensitive to that last part due to some Chinese Manhwas - but I really dislike a work where everyone's either MC's friend/follower, or gets shat on by the universe
 
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Y'know, sidenote, even if Reika did theoretically somehow win... is it even possible for Ayumi to rejoin Pieris Rapae? Last time Towa tried to dye over Ayumi's insect she got full on petrified for it.
It'd be kinda funny if Reika won and instead got Towa dyed black for her trouble...
 
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Y'know, sidenote, even if Reika did theoretically somehow win... is it even possible for Ayumi to rejoin Pieris Rapae? Last time Towa tried to dye over Ayumi's insect she got full on petrified for it.
It'd be kinda funny if Reika won and instead got Towa dyed black for her trouble...
"this is not the 'Find Out' I signed up for"
 
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They need to build up population :D

btw, imagine if the situation went like...
Reika : Why is Ayumi a queen...
Himiko : Towa’s idea
Kyou : She’s recommended by Towa
Raika : Right, Towa
Reika : ...

About the result, because they do this in a ritual duel, maybe the insect would accept because they are defeated officially.
 

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