Kusobitch na Gal Ane o Wakaraseru Hanashi

[MangaDex]

 

[Litreara]

Let's see if now that it's been serialized with editorial supervision and without part of the plot hidden in the FANBOX, the author can make this manga at least decent.

 

[Ochrolv]

Let's see if now that it's been serialized with editorial supervision and without part of the plot hidden in the FANBOX, the author can make this manga at least decent.

I looked at the raws & while I don't understand Japanese but it looks like they gave the brother character more depth. I do hope the focus is just a brother trying to help his sister out of rebellious phase & become a family. Anyways it is the it is calm before the storm so maybe we'll get a rational & civil discussion unlike the pre-serialized version.... maybe?

 

[Litreara]

I looked at the raws & while I don't understand Japanese but it looks like they gave the brother character more depth. I do hope the focus is just a brother trying to help his sister out of rebellious phase & become a family. Anyways it is the it is calm before the storm so maybe we'll get a rational & civil discussion unlike the pre-serialized version.... maybe?

I think it will depend on whether the author includes the FANBOX content or decides to tone it down. If the FMC does the same things she does on the FANBOX, it's bound to be a disaster.

 

[Grogzilla]

Oh boy, I really hope nothing bad happens in the comments of this good-natured and wholesome manga

 

[salmoi]

I think it will depend on whether the author includes the FANBOX content or decides to tone it down. If the FMC does the same things she does on the FANBOX, it's bound to be a disaster.

I think the problem is the sudden change of tone, if the author make fmc behave like a "real" bitch from the start nobody would complain... Maybe

Let's see how it will turn out this time.

 

[Ochrolv]

I think it will depend on whether the author includes the FANBOX content or decides to tone it down. If the FMC does the same things she does on the FANBOX, it's bound to be a disaster.

Given that the author tends to make Fanbox content out of their work, it will more than likely happen unfortunately since it means more money in their pocket. Plus if this gets popular & volume releases are a hit then the chances of that to happen are going to increase. I could be totally wrong & the author actually listen to the criticism from the pre-serialization then we could see a decent manga while having a good laugh at its origins being such a dumpster fire.

 

[relrelrelrel]

Given that the author tends to make Fanbox content out of their work, it will more than likely happen unfortunately since it means more money in their pocket. Plus if this gets popular & volume releases are a hit then the chances of that to happen are going to increase. I could be totally wrong & the author actually listen to the criticism from the pre-serialization then we could see a decent manga while having a good laugh at its origins being such a dumpster fire.

I don't really care if fmc does what she does in the fanbox.
well, it's "I can fix her" type of story after all, fmc should have one or two things that mc can fix it.

But for me the pre-serialized is just a dumpster fire is because how the author presented her story... like, at first I thought the tone of the story wouldn't be that heavy. Because her actions didn't seem like a slut that much. And when she came home It didn't seem like anything had happened to her. So I think that it's a story about a fake slut sister that slowly behave like a proper sister and started develop feeling for her little brother like that, but after chapters on fanbox was released It completely changes the tone of the story. And it made me unable to adapt to it current tone.

And on top of that, the "real" story had put behind the pay wall... seem a bit too greedy for me🫤

 

[slyss]

Given that the author tends to make Fanbox content out of their work, it will more than likely happen unfortunately since it means more money in their pocket. Plus if this gets popular & volume releases are a hit then the chances of that to happen are going to increase. I could be totally wrong & the author actually listen to the criticism from the pre-serialization then we could see a decent manga while having a good laugh at its origins being such a dumpster fire.

What criticism?
Spamming and insulting her on Twitter like fucking manchildren wasn't criticism.
The way the short manga, A SHORT with only a few chapters, made some people here act in a way that's hard to believe is the main reason why I wish she'd follow the original premise.

Though I personally believe it won't happen, TnY has a few sexually charged manga in its current lineup. It also currently handles Maria no Danzai, which has no problem showing scenes like the mother of a kid bullied to death, giving her body away for her benefit, and heavy torture /gore scenes. So, the chances aren't zero because the publisher clearly has no problem with stronger premises.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

I think the problem is the sudden change of tone, if the author make fmc behave like a "real" bitch from the start nobody would complain... Maybe

Let's see how it will turn out this time.

I mean, her total lack of consistent characterization (Aside from going 100% whore in the fanbox) was only part of the issue. The biggest one is that she made it NTR out of nowhere, and the only way you'd know about it pre-leak is to literally pay her to get slapped in the face. The next one was that the author didn't actually provide a sensible resolution to the problem; the girl enjoyed every second of everything she did: There was no reason this bare (and I do mean bare) minimum TLC from the brother would really be enough for her to change.

I could be totally wrong & the author actually listen to the criticism from the pre-serialization then we could see a decent manga while having a good laugh at its origins being such a dumpster fire.

Zyugoya already has loving MC's putting their love interests back together as his go-to plotline, and it works great. A slightly grittier version would be good... if the woman learns and actually makes her FMC not be an enthusiastic whore.

What criticism?

"Hiding NTR behind a paywall, then trying to suppress the news is bad"

 

[slyss]

I mean, her total lack of consistent characterization (Aside from going 100% whore in the fanbox) was only part of the issue. The biggest one is that she made it NTR out of nowhere, and the only way you'd know about it pre-leak is to literally pay her to get slapped in the face.

Come on, dude.

Spoiler

Chapter 2—no, wait, PAGE 02 OF THE ENTIRE THING—has her going into a mixer and blacking out with a bunch of chara. Like, RIGHT HERE. How is it possible that anyone missread what happened!? Not only that, but on the very first page, her brother calls her a "(生意気)クソビッチ" which in Japanese is more akin to "Shitty (Impertinent/Cheeky) Bitch" or "Fucking (Impertinent/Cheeky)) Bitch", depending on the tone and context, and with her style of dressing in Japanese society, it was obvious where things were heading from the start.

People saying, "Nothing happened because she arrived home with her clothes on" were coping to a level I still find hard to understand. Anyone paying minimum attention knew what happened. The fanbox was just fapping material that people misread as a betrayal because they were in denial. No wonder the author had to said it was an IF, tired of people spamming her with broken Japanese from Google TL / DEEPL, or English.

Blame cultural differences, wrong translation, or the author, but the real issue is people who took these 2 pages and thought the sister sleeping around was unexpected, and broke their expectations—expectations set over TWO chapters, dude, not some super lengthy work that suddenly went into an NTR route 100 chapters in!

Where did these expectations even come from?
The reaction it got was totally undeserved.

Also, the fanbox updates were posted on her Twitter, and she advertised them constantly. What do you mean by suppression? The tweets she deleted after being tired of people spamming her?
Sure, she overreacted to trolls and got more affected than she should've, but she wasn't keeping the fanbox secret. Denying it was NTR was a huge mistake, though, but the fanbox posts are still up , and they've become some of her most popular ones, because they're just fap material for most people.

We'll see what route it follows now. I doubt it'll stick to the original, but her current publisher might not mind dealing with such a premise. There's also the fact that the brother is calling her the same again, and she's clearly in bad business, so who knows? If in the next chapter she goes to a mixer and blacks out again, I guess people will once more read the situation as "The gentle チャラ男 respected her values and didn't do anything," lmao. But if the mixer event never happens, then we can be sure the author is going in another direction. (Or everything happens, and in the future, she turns out to be a virgin, which would frankly be kind of funny to see.)

Frankly, I shouldn't be writing these WoT because, in my own words, this drama is just so goddamn overblown, and now worth it.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Chapter 2—no, wait, PAGE 02—has her going into a mixer and blacking out with a bunch of chara.

Not a blackout. It was a time skip. We really doing this again?

Like, RIGHT HERE. How is it possible that anyone missread what happened!? Not only that, but on the very first page, her brother calls her a "Shitty Bitch," which in Japanese is more like "Slut." With her style of dressing in Japanese society, it was obvious where things were heading from the start.

It wasn't obvious that they would literally stop the story to tell us that bro is into her, then laugh at him. We were very much just reading a story about a brother being worried about his whore sister until that page. Also, given how she'd been characterized in the SFW section of the chapter, it was reasonable to assume she wasn't 100% comfortable with the situation.

People saying, "Nothing happened because she arrived home with her clothes on" were coping to a level I still find hard to understand. Anyone paying minimum attention knew what happened. The fanbox was just fapping material that people misread as a betrayal because they couldn't put 2 and 2 together. No wonder the author had to said it was an IF, tired of people spamming her with broken Japanese from Google TL / DEEPL, or English.

I'm confused. What are you talking about? The only people to "misread" any of this were the ones denying the fanbox happened at all: The same ones insisting that the sister isn't an enthusiastic slut.

Blame cultural differences, wrong translation, or the author, but the real issue is people who took these 2 pages and thought the sister sleeping around was unexpected. Expectations set over TWO chapters, dude, not some super lenghty work that suddenly went into an NTR route 100 chapters in!

Nobody but the copers I mentioned before is surprised she's loose. The shock was that the author, on top of not hinting at NTR until we were in the thick of it, also painted her as a wallflower immediately before the events.

Also, the fanbox updates were posted on her Twitter, and she advertised them constantly. What do you mean by suppression? The tweets she deleted after being tired of people spamming her?

No, I mean the part where people actually saw the content, then finally pointed out that it was unpleasant. Then she blocks anyone that points it out, then she goes and gets the tags for her series locked on Fanbox so people stop adding the NTR tag to it. If you think talking to the creator about her own work is "Spamming", you're probably not cut out for content creation. By that logic, I'm getting "spammed" for all my uploads lately.

We'll see what route it follows now. I doubt it'll stick to the original, but her current publisher might not mind dealing with such a premise. There's also the fact that the brother is calling her a "Shitty Bitch" again, and she's clearly in bad business, so who knows?

The story could always go the "She's misunderstood" angle. Having Gyarus assumed to be sluts, only for it to come out that they're not insatiable whores is a common subversion these days. She can totally just be a bitchy party girl and not also get into animalistic sex trance gangbangs. Just having a douchebag boyfriend would be enough to paint her as broken, easy, and not an irredeemable whore.

Hell, that could be the catalyst for the conflict: She's bad, but she's not that bad. Her family sees her act out a bit, and their constant judgements of her drive her further away from them. To add insult to injury, now that she dyed her hair and got some piercings, little bro here insists she's a whore too!

 

[slyss]

Not a blackout. It was a time skip. We really doing this again?

You're right, I always saw her first expression during the +18 extra to be out of it, like, half-half, slightly moaning as she was being penetrated, then she fully woke up when the dude went all in.

It wasn't obvious that they would literally stop the story to tell us that bro is into her, then laugh at him. We were very much just reading a story about a brother being worried about his whore sister until that page. Also, given how she'd been characterized in the SFW section of the chapter, it was reasonable to assume she wasn't 100% comfortable with the situation.

Yes, she wasn't. She's a conflicted girl who doesn't feel like she has a place at home. This plays into her mental struggles and why she put herself in the situation she did, seeking validation from sources outside her family like the "Popular group of charas." But also, that same conflict is why I never found her reactions and characterization towards her brother unnatural. It fits the theme of her issues and works as a contrast between him and those outside sources, especially after what happened to her.

Sure, you could portray all this without going to the extreme, as you mentioned, but not doing so doesn't justify the reaction it received. Even more when everything unfolds in barely enough pages for half a normal manga chapter (considering people went apeshit from chapter 2 and so on). Not even in real-life time, as it all happened in less than two months I think.

No, I mean the part where people actually saw the content, then finally pointed out that it was unpleasant. Then she blocks anyone that points it out, then she goes and gets the tags for her series locked on Fanbox so people stop adding the NTR tag to it. If you think talking to the creator about her own work is "Spamming", you're probably not cut out for content creation. By that logic, I'm getting "spammed" for all my uploads lately.

The thing is, people weren't just pointing out that it was unpleasant. They were spamming in broken Japanese, insulting, creating new accounts after being blocked (and some being suspended, hell, you even had people here saying that they knew what they were doing), posting the Fanbox pages in her replies, and so on. If people had just pointed out their grievances, she wouldn't have reacted the way she did, which was her biggest mistake (Especially the audio stream she did, as fun as it was). Ultimately, she should have embraced the NTR tag.

Anyway, the point of all this is that the red flags about the story were huge from the start, and the way people reacted, the number of comments it generated, and how it went astray in the little amount of content the manga had at the time, was too much. I've seen people less outraged by vanilla doujinshi switching to NTR after several chapters in, than with this, which is quite something.

Ultimately, all this is pointless because the Fanbox content is not canon (The チャラ男 turned out to have morals in the main story lol) we now have a serialization, which, funny enough, shows that the short enjoyed a certain popularity or that the publisher sees potential in it. What kind of potential? We will have to wait and see.
I'm also of the opinion that it will be different, but with this publisher, anything can happen, and, again, it's not like the Fanbox extras weren't popular.

Have a nice day.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

You're right, I always saw her first expression during the +18 extra to be out of it, like, half-half, slightly moaning as she was being penetrated, then she fully woke up when the dude went all in.

It was just her enjoying the moment. If you re-read my translation, you'll remember the first two pages were actually her using the guy underneath as a meat dildo, and slowly working it in on her own. They lost patience with her foreplay on page 3 and slammed it in. Which, yes, woke her up, since we transitioned from "Quietly enjoy some dick" to "LET THE GAMES BEGIN!"

Yes, she wasn't. She's a conflicted girl who doesn't feel like she has a place at home. This plays into her mental struggles and why she put herself in the situation she did, seeking validation from outside her sources outside her family like the "Popular group of charas." But also, that same conflict is why I never found her reactions and characterization towards her brother unnatural. It fits the theme of her issues and works as a contrast between him and those outside sources, especially after what happened to her.

Yeah, her reaction doesn't track with how the fanbox went, is the problem. Every chance she gets, she's into it. Drunk, sober, sleeping... doesn't matter. She'll give the most meager of resistance, then when shit starts, she gets right into it.

Sure, you could portray all this without going to the extreme, as you mentioned, but not doing so doesn't justify the reaction it received. Even more when everything unfolds in barely enough pages for half a normal manga chapter (considering people when apeshit from chapter 2 and so on). Not even in real-life time, as it all happened in less than two months I think.

Look, I shit on the author a lot, but something she does extremely well is exposition. Her dialogue is brutally efficient, despite its cringyness. Every single line is perfectly crafted to give you as much information as Humanly possible. So this whole "Oh, she only had a few pages to work with" excuse doesn't work, since she used them all to dig the hole deeper. There didn't need to be a whole page setting up the brother as being into her then shitting on him, for example.

The author already got the blowback for this whole "Insatiable whore" angle, but she went ahead and drew Chapter 4's Fanbox with basically the same premise as before: She's reluctant until it starts. Then she fucking gives it 110%. Had she taken note and, say, drawn her more reluctant now that she was sober, and clearly making an effort not to fuck the guys again, it would have simultaneously shown growth of both the character, and the author. Instead, the author draws a full deepthroat, and has the guy outright tell us she's giving him a HELL of an effort.

Ultimately, all this is pointless because the Fanbox content is not canon (The チャラ男 turned out to have morals in the main story lol)

We're well past this whole "Fanbox isn't canon" thing. If you're going to revive this cope I'm not going to engage.

 

[slyss]

We're well past this whole "Fanbox isn't canon" thing. If you're going to revive this cope I'm not going to engage.

I was poking fun at the idea that the Fanbox isn't canon, even with the "IF" statement; I thought the チャラ男 comment made it clear, lol.

Yeah, her reaction doesn't track with how the fanbox went, is the problem.

Agree to disagree.
--------

Ultimately, I simply don't agree with how you're seeing the story and the content available of the source material, so all this will lead to nothing. Let's see how chapter 2 goes because chapter 1 continued in a similar vein as the source, but with obviously way more characterization for the brother, delving deeper into his motivations, and setting up more context for her future reactions. So, chapters 2 and 3 will be where the real fun begins, and what direction the author takes.

 

[salmoi]

I mean, her total lack of consistent characterization (Aside from going 100% whore in the fanbox) was only part of the issue. The biggest one is that she made it NTR out of nowhere, and the only way you'd know about it pre-leak is to literally pay her to get slapped in the face. The next one was that the author didn't actually provide a sensible resolution to the problem; the girl enjoyed every second of everything she did: There was no reason this bare (and I do mean bare) minimum TLC from the brother really shouldn't be enough for her to change.

Yeah bro that too... like, why make the first 2 chapter seem like it's all new to her? Both in terms of conversation and action. Why not make it seem like something she does on a regular basis? Because the author herself described her character as a slut isn't? and if she enjoy with what she does... That's okay. But please tell me too "THE READER", Why is she enjoyed it? so I can at least feel sympathize for her character.

For example "Kimi ni Aisarete Itakatta" the fmc enjoyed selling her body before she met with the mc, but for why she did that is because it made her feel like someone really wanted her and that makes her feel valuable. After I knew that, it made me sympathize with her character more and actually ok with it.

...But not with this manga, the only thing that I see in her fanbox was that she just fucked around and actually enjoyed it with no build up or anything that can maka me sympathize with her character at all.

Lastly, may I ask you, why so many people said that, this is NTR? All I can see is just a r*pe(It's not r*pe since she somewhat consent but I didn't have a word to describe it) Is it about the feeling that feel like NTR to the reader with how sudden the tone have changed not because it's an actual NTR story, right?

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Yeah bro that too... like, why make the first 2 chapter seem like it's all new to her? Both in terms of conversation and action. Why not make it seem like something she does on a regular basis? B

Exactly. The way she's acting, you'd think she hasn't done it a million times already. But the moment the fanbox starts, you see she's not just used to it, but, according the the guys, she's fucking amazing at it, and she loves it. So why the shyness? \

For example "Kimi ni Aisarete Itakatta" the fmc enjoyed selling her body before she met with the mc, but for why she did that is because it made her feel like someone really wanted her and that makes her feel valuable. After I knew that, it made me sympathize with her character more and actually ok with it.

The weird thing is the guy himself had this problem. He's not a virgin. He's been sleeping around just fine up until then. But now he's acting like he's never seen a boob before, which makes him just as annoying as FMC here.

...But not with this manga, the only thing that I see in her fanbox was that she just fucked around and actually enjoyed it with no build up or anything that can maka me sympathize with her character at all.

Never mind sympathy- she literally has no reason to stop. Literal seconds before she said she was done being a whore, she gave another enthusiastic performance. Describing the woman as bipolar would be an understatement.

Lastly, may I ask you, why so many people said that, this is NTR?

Because they literally spend an entire page talking about how her brother is attracted to her, then laugh at him for it... while she's grinding herself on one of them and working his dick in slowly.

All I can see is just a r*pe(It's not r*pe since she somewhat consent but I didn't have a word to describe it)

The term is "Lawful But Awful". She agreed to everything, but it still doesn't feel great to see a (At the time) shy, uncomfortable woman being lured to a party. pressured to drink, and then get into a gangbang.

Is it about the feeling that feel like NTR to the reader with how sudden the tone have changed not because it's an actual NTR story, right?

By all means, it looks like actual NTR. The author had literally no reason to set up the brother as interested in her.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Good news: The serialization hasn't set up NTR yet. She can still be a dirty slut, since we only got to chapter 0 of the twitter series, but so far, the author's made it clear the brother is interested in her as family, so NTR is off the table. WOO!

Then there's also the implication that the sister might not be in the wrong here. Maybe the author finally decided to go with the "She feels isolated because people assume the worst of her" angle?

 

[salmoi]

Never mind sympathy- she literally has no reason to stop. Literal seconds before she said she was done being a whore, she gave another enthusiastic performance. Describing the woman as bipolar would be an understatement.

Well, I forgot about how there is literally no actual story for me to feel sympathize towards her in the pre-serialized at all, the actual story that exists is just a reader theory about why she would act like that, from the stress? from the way people assume the worst of her? etc.

Because they literally spend an entire page talking about how her brother is attracted to her, then laugh at him for it.

Soooo I reread that ch again and well they really talking about how the brothers might attracted to her but it's just in there perspective like "woah!! if I were her brother I would f*ck her all days woohoo heehee"

Although the brothers didn't seem to like her that way but with how strong the ntr element put in to work, I can understand why so many would feel like that.

Good news: The serialization hasn't set up NTR yet. She can still be a dirty slut, since we only got to chapter 0 of the twitter series, but so far, the author's made it clear the brother is interested in her as family, so NTR is off the table. WOO!

Ok just to make sure, did the brother really feel attracted to the fmc in the pre-serialized? Cause with how he acts I can't really tell that he is attracted to her, for me it seem like he cares about her just because she is his family members.

Then there's also the implication that the sister might not be in the wrong here. Maybe the author finally decided to go with the "She feels isolated because people assume the worst of her" angle?

This should be the actual plot from the start and in pre-serialized as well, but it's not feel like that in the pre-serialized just because the author messed up with that fanbox bait bullshit💀

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Soooo I reread that ch again and well they really talking about how the brothers might attracted to her but it's just in there perspective like "woah!! if I were her brother I would f*ck her all days woohoo heehee"

You have to remember that stories aren't real life: When characters say something, it's important. If this were an actual hidden-camera documentary of some slut's life, we could have a talk about how they're just talking shit. But when the author goes out of its way to bring something up, you need to listen. The woman is great at giving exposition. Realistically, this was just a nod to the older version of the work (The one that got her banned, since it involved rape and incest), but it also means she's foreshadowing the romance here too.

Although the brothers didn't seem to like her that way but with how strong the ntr element put in to work, I can understand why so many would feel like that.

Ok just to make sure, did the brother really feel attracted to the fmc in the pre-serialized? Cause with how he acts I can't really tell that he is attracted to her, for me it seem like he cares about her just because she is his family members.

Honestly, who even knows what anyone was feeling in the first place? I don't think even the author knew with how badly she wrote everyone. All I know is that the author mentioned it when she literally had no reason to under the circumstances. It's not like she didn't take the opportunity to tell us they're not blood related in the next chapter anyway.

This should be the actual plot from the start and in pre-serialized as well, but it's not feel like that in the pre-serialized just because the author messed up with that fanbox bait bullshit💀

Considering it's a reboot of literal netori incest rape porn, it's not surprising she kept FMC as a whore: She didn't know how far to dial back the porn bits of the story, so she ended up not pulling back enough.