Kyou kara Tsukaeru Isekai Ren'ai Manual - Vol. 3 Ch. 14

[panneqaha]

Thats the thing, they lack that. She is part of the guild, a group not bound to or by thier nation. It would be like capturing a noble from another nation, and telling that national to respect your judgment as you blame your own fault on that noble.
Sure your nation might buy it, but the guild won't. And people will still ask why is this one person, who wasn't in charge or anything responsible while the rest are not. There is already a faction divide. This just pushes the guild to side with the other side.

Its also pointless, just play off being guards that failed, I mean really how would you even avoid or defend vs what happened? They can just act like they were ambushed. Sure its a blemish on their records till their faction takes power, but it wont affect them as its just dismissed.

They lack neither.

This is a medieval type setting, and with that in mind:
I think you underestimate just how much power religious organisations can wield.
I also think you're overestimating the standing of someone who's basically middle management of what is likely a commoners guild. Certainly nowhere near that of even a minor noble.
If Amelia gets blamed, charged and punished for the loss of the Saintess (someone we can assume is hugely important, even if WE know she's a fake), I could see the Royal Capital, at best, issuing a sternly worded letter to the church.

Now I don't recall if the manga went over the power or structure of the adventurers guild in this setting (is it multi-national?, is it state or noble backed? etc.), so their level of influence and power is unknown. Going by both other manga in this genre AND real world historical medieval guilds, they might only exist at the whim of the authorities, or they could actually wield considerable power. Even if it's the latter, the Guild might think that starting a fight with what's presumably a larger, more influential and powerful organisation might not be worth it. Especially over the life of a secretary and a random new adventurer who are being blamed for the death of the Saintess.

 

[panneqaha]

reply is not edit

 

[BeatMeatMaster64]

Chat, is jibril lowkey falling for mc's immaculate rizz?

 

[hevensdragon]

most likely they picked adventurers with the goal of blaming them in the first place, they have a fake paper trail "proving" that she was behind it then she gets executed before anyone else has a chance to get too nosy

I mean sure if the guild was under their jurisdiction. This is just a act of war.

 

[hevensdragon]

well so MC was just waiting for his chance to use the hidden information he has?? also who the f*ck threw that log?! is MC secretly getting help by another person/heroine?


well the higher-up on the church wanted to sacrifice the MC, problem is using the assistant will make a problem with the Guild Leader, now it could be that he expects to use the escape goat to get the Archbishop position by a new saintess selected by them, and with that position he would be untouchable even by the guild.

But in what way does it help him at all? It just makes a enemy of the guild. Even if they blame her it wont change that they were also guards that failed. And again they are of a rival faction that doesn't care about this failure, so they don't even need a scapegoat.

 

[Forikorder]

I mean sure if the guild was under their jurisdiction. This is just a act of war.

So? The one chapter of the guild lost face because of things they cant prove their members didnt do

 

[hevensdragon]

They lack neither.

This is a medieval type setting, and with that in mind:
I think you underestimate just how much power religious organisations can wield.
I also think you're overestimating the standing of someone who's basically middle management of what is likely a commoners guild. Certainly nowhere near that of even a minor noble.
If Amelia gets blamed, charged and punished for the loss of the Saintess (someone we can assume is hugely important, even if WE know she's a fake), I could see the Royal Capital, at best, issuing a sternly worded letter to the church.

Now I don't recall if the manga went over the power or structure of the adventurers guild in this setting (is it multi-national?, is it state or noble backed? etc.), so their level of influence and power is unknown. Going by both other manga in this genre AND real world historical medieval guilds, they might only exist at the whim of the authorities, or they could actually wield considerable power. Even if it's the latter, the Guild might think that starting a fight with what's presumably a larger, more influential and powerful organisation might not be worth it. Especially over the life of a secretary and a random new adventurer who are being blamed for the death of the Saintess.

Yes they can wield a lot of power, among their people, but they are a religious group from another nation. Their power is far less in others lands.

 

[CapitanTooTanned]

Whats the plan there? Claim that she alone failed? She is a third party that has people who will ask questions. First of which is why on earth was she alone treated that way when the entire guard group failed.
They could try to pin being a traitor on her, but it would be foolish as it would just pick a fight with the guild who will call bs. She is to unrelated and they hold know trust over the her backing.

No offense, but are you seriously hoping for logical reasoning from third-rate villains?

 

[AnacondaHL]

I know so many of you fuckers are weak to this look, don't deny it

 

[TheHastur]

THANK YOU FOR READING THIS CHAPTER!

► Our Web: https://www.silentquill.net/

Hey thanks for the chapter.
But why isn't this one available on the web site 🤔

 

[hevensdragon]

No offense, but are you seriously hoping for logical reasoning from third-rate villains?

Yes, things making a level of sense is a pretty standard and low bar for a story. Even for characters like this, this kind of stupid is for ba dits, not respected officials.
Kind of sad to see it be see as a unreasonable standard, as well as to see how much some buy into and defend it, perhaps I didn't fully acount for stupid and gullible.

 

[panneqaha]

This is just a act of war.

Again, over the life of a random adventurer and a secretary? I think not. Remember, this is a medieval setting. They'd be much less likely to do something as costly as start a war with the church (and as far as I can tell, it's THE church, not A church). To me it's kind of like 13th century Norway going to war with the Catholic Church over the death of a mid tier merchant. They wouldn't just be challenging the Vatican, they'd be challenging a TON of Catholics all around Europe, including inside their own nation.

It just makes a enemy of the guild.

We don't know the goal they're working towards, and--again--we don't know the power of either the Guild or the Church. Annoying or fighting the Guild might be well worth it.

but they are a religious group from another nation.

Where did you get that from? To me it sounded more like the Catholic Church in Europe, and less the Church of England visiting Spain. The Guild Master also refers to them as "The Church", not "Their Church" or "The Church of Blargo from the Womptie Kingdom" or whatever. (ch11, page28 for reference)

I also think you might be really overvaluing the power and importance of the adventurers guild. That said, I might be really undervaluing them, but we haven't really been given any hints of their actual power or influence, so it could go either way.

Anyway, I imagine we'll get the answers in the next few chapters.

 

[Amiles]

this is promising manga indied.

 

[hevensdragon]

Again, over the life of a random adventurer and a secretary? I think not. Remember, this is a medieval setting. They'd be much less likely to do something as costly as start a war with the church (and as far as I can tell, it's THE church, not A church). To me it's kind of like 13th century Norway going to war with the Catholic Church over the death of a mid tier merchant. They wouldn't just be challenging the Vatican, they'd be challenging a TON of Catholics all around Europe, including inside their own nation.

We don't know the goal they're working towards, and--again--we don't know the power of either the Guild or the Church. Annoying or fighting the Guild might be well worth it.

Where did you get that from? To me it sounded more like the Catholic Church in Europe, and less the Church of England visiting Spain. The Guild Master also refers to them as "The Church", not "Their Church" or "The Church of Blargo from the Womptie Kingdom" or whatever. (ch11, page28 for reference)

I also think you might be really overvaluing the power and importance of the adventurers guild. That said, I might be really undervaluing them, but we haven't really been given any hints of their actual power or influence, so it could go either way.

Anyway, I imagine we'll get the answers in the next few chapters.

They said it a few chapters back, they are a church nation, that is currently divided in two factions. It was framed not as a general church, but more as that nations ruling party.
This makes me doubt their influence is as powerful as say the catholic church. And if they are split in two, then it doesn't really matter how large the churches influence is as they are at least semi in balance with the other faction. So in doing this they will add the guild as a enemy and a ally to the other faction.

Now in worlds with a guild it is generally a very large powerhouse, often one of the largest. It does depend on if its international or not, but in general adventurer guilds are even more untouchable than a nobles, or churches. The reason being that they control basically all the mercenaries, are international and can pull out of any nation that bugs them, as really the guild doesn't need any of the nations, it just manages the adventures who manage the monsters. Do to this adventurer guilds tend to be very influential in most stories.

That said yes they could be a lot less, but even if they only a small power, the entire point I am making is, they are making a enemy, for nothing. The knights can just say they failed, remember they work for the faction that wanted this "saint" dead. They just say they failed, and their faction will cover for them and keep them employed as this "failure" was them succeeding. They can just hide the names of the knights who were on the mission, claim it was something out of their control.
They have no need for a scapegoat. When they will be the faction in power. So they gain nothing, and it adds a enemy, one with a info network, and ability to spread information, they lose control of the narrative for nothing here.

 

[panneqaha]

They said it a few chapters back, they are a church nation, that is currently divided in two factions. It was framed not as a general church, but more as that nations ruling party.
This makes me doubt their influence is as powerful as say the catholic church. And if they are split in two, then it doesn't really matter how large the churches influence is as they are at least semi in balance with the other faction. So in doing this they will add the guild as a enemy and a ally to the other faction.

Now in worlds with a guild it is generally a very large powerhouse, often one of the largest. It does depend on if its international or not, but in general adventurer guilds are even more untouchable than a nobles, or churches. The reason being that they control basically all the mercenaries, are international and can pull out of any nation that bugs them, as really the guild doesn't need any of the nations, it just manages the adventures who manage the monsters. Do to this adventurer guilds tend to be very influential in most stories.

That said yes they could be a lot less, but even if they only a small power, the entire point I am making is, they are making a enemy, for nothing. The knights can just say they failed, remember they work for the faction that wanted this "saint" dead. They just say they failed, and their faction will cover for them and keep them employed as this "failure" was them succeeding. They can just hide the names of the knights who were on the mission, claim it was something out of their control.
They have no need for a scapegoat. When they will be the faction in power. So they gain nothing, and it adds a enemy, one with a info network, and ability to spread information, they lose control of the narrative for nothing here.

I honestly don't think we'll ever agree on this.

I saw them refer to "the Holy Land", which is an ambiguous term. While it could refer to a nation (especially with the lazy naming conventions you can get in manga), it could also easily refer to a region. Perhaps even within the kingdom itself, or a Vatican/Italy type setup. I also saw no indication that it's a single nation church, everything seemed to me that it's more widespread than that.

I've read plenty of isekai and fantasy manga where the Adventurers Guild has huge power and influence over the whole continent or world.
I've also read plenty where the Guilds power and influence is much less, from an important national organisation, to a loose alliance of individual city and town based guilds, all the way down to being basically relatively weak and disliked place to hire ruffians and wanderers for crappy dangerous jobs that no one else wants. I've seen them were the adventurers are basicaly the Guilds private army. I've seen the opposite where the Guild is just the place where a whole bunch of indipendent adventurers go to get jobs.
My point has been we don't know what the Adventurers Guild in this setting is like, and I've seen no real evidence either way (other than it not being on the really weak end of the scale). If I had to hazard a guess, it'd say moderately important on a national scale, with nothing (yet) showing it to be on the powerful and influencial "don't fuck with us" end of things.

That last point, the one that is "the entire point" you're making, is the one I have the most issue with. You keep harping on about they're 'making an enemy for nothing' and 'they don't need a scapegoat' etc. Really?! A Very Important Person dies and their escorts can get away with just saying "Oops LOL!" and that's it? You say 'their faction just covers for them'. Guess what helps with that? A SCAPEGOAT! Bonus points if they get a confession (through torture, magic, forged written confessoin, whatever).
Unless the other faction(s) are really stupid, I doubt they would just accept the equivalent of 'she died somehow' or 'the killer escaped'. That's the kind of thing that is more likely to lead to their own investigations, or more thorough investigations than they otherwise would. And unless it's covered up really well (admitedly possible), they'll need someone to blame for the general public. Both for the general public to aim their anger at (for killing the beloved Saintess etc), and to make the Church seem less of a failure (oh no! we were too slow to save the Saintess fake tears but we at least caught one of her killers! see? we're not useless, justice will be served! perfomative theatre to control the masses).

As for the 'enemy for nothing' bit, we don't know what their goals are. Maybe they WANT to ferment hostility between groups, maybe the secretary was an unexpected (minor) wrinkle in the plan but they're going for it anyway. Maybe the see--rightly or wrongly--the guild as too weak to realy do anything. Maybe they expect the Kingdom will make the Guild accept the verdict. The Saintess died in Kingdom lands while being escorted by a Kingdom adventurer after all. The church could very well demand reparations or something. The 'kill the saintess' faction could easily have allies within the Kingdom's nobility, close to the King, inside the Guild etc.

Why did Cardinal Whatsit want an adventurer to help with the escort? To get a convenient scapegoat with no real power backing them. Makes covering for the real culprits much easier.
That is, unless he arrested the secretary as a cliffhanger fake-out and he's not actually scapegoating anyone, making most of this debate kind of irrelevant. I mean, he could be 'arresting' her in some kind of effort to protect her and/or draw out the real culprits or something.

 

[hevensdragon]

I honestly don't think we'll ever agree on this.

I saw them refer to "the Holy Land", which is an ambiguous term. While it could refer to a nation (especially with the lazy naming conventions you can get in manga), it could also easily refer to a region. Perhaps even within the kingdom itself, or a Vatican/Italy type setup. I also saw no indication that it's a single nation church, everything seemed to me that it's more widespread than that.

I've read plenty of isekai and fantasy manga where the Adventurers Guild has huge power and influence over the whole continent or world.
I've also read plenty where the Guilds power and influence is much less, from an important national organisation, to a loose alliance of individual city and town based guilds, all the way down to being basically relatively weak and disliked place to hire ruffians and wanderers for crappy dangerous jobs that no one else wants. I've seen them were the adventurers are basicaly the Guilds private army. I've seen the opposite where the Guild is just the place where a whole bunch of indipendent adventurers go to get jobs.
My point has been we don't know what the Adventurers Guild in this setting is like, and I've seen no real evidence either way (other than it not being on the really weak end of the scale). If I had to hazard a guess, it'd say moderately important on a national scale, with nothing (yet) showing it to be on the powerful and influencial "don't fuck with us" end of things.

That last point, the one that is "the entire point" you're making, is the one I have the most issue with. You keep harping on about they're 'making an enemy for nothing' and 'they don't need a scapegoat' etc. Really?! A Very Important Person dies and their escorts can get away with just saying "Oops LOL!" and that's it? You say 'their faction just covers for them'. Guess what helps with that? A SCAPEGOAT! Bonus points if they get a confession (through torture, magic, forged written confessoin, whatever).
Unless the other faction(s) are really stupid, I doubt they would just accept the equivalent of 'she died somehow' or 'the killer escaped'. That's the kind of thing that is more likely to lead to their own investigations, or more thorough investigations than they otherwise would. And unless it's covered up really well (admitedly possible), they'll need someone to blame for the general public. Both for the general public to aim their anger at (for killing the beloved Saintess etc), and to make the Church seem less of a failure (oh no! we were too slow to save the Saintess fake tears but we at least caught one of her killers! see? we're not useless, justice will be served! perfomative theatre to control the masses).

As for the 'enemy for nothing' bit, we don't know what their goals are. Maybe they WANT to ferment hostility between groups, maybe the secretary was an unexpected (minor) wrinkle in the plan but they're going for it anyway. Maybe the see--rightly or wrongly--the guild as too weak to realy do anything. Maybe they expect the Kingdom will make the Guild accept the verdict. The Saintess died in Kingdom lands while being escorted by a Kingdom adventurer after all. The church could very well demand reparations or something. The 'kill the saintess' faction could easily have allies within the Kingdom's nobility, close to the King, inside the Guild etc.

Why did Cardinal Whatsit want an adventurer to help with the escort? To get a convenient scapegoat with no real power backing them. Makes covering for the real culprits much easier.
That is, unless he arrested the secretary as a cliffhanger fake-out and he's not actually scapegoating anyone, making most of this debate kind of irrelevant. I mean, he could be 'arresting' her in some kind of effort to protect her and/or draw out the real culprits or something.

Your missing that we also don't know the structure of the church here, so its a unknown just like the aspects of the guild you mentioned.
And yes its for nothing, members of the opposite faction where guarding her, so her faction will investigate and call foal no matter what. But the victors write the story. That was a clean as hell attack. They can just honestly say that rocks fell from the top of the cliff, they were unable to pursue and look into if it was caused by a person do to you know cliff. They will later check, but with that terrain it won't be in time. They had no way to defend or even try to stop the attack, nor even investigate in time. All of the guards, both of the enemy faction and her own would agree on that. It would be very hard to assign any fault.
Sure they can accuse others of leaking info, but they have no evidence.

But you know what evidence is available? How quick they accused someone with no evidence. How the rival faction right away power grabbed. They can't back up their accusation without revealing they somehow have information on a attack they can't have. So the accusation actually gives the rival faction something to work with. The knights of a rival faction let her die, then they targeted her allies silencing them. The first part is hard to call them out for as there was no actions on their part, but while already suspect then silencing the rival faction, it might as well be a admission of guilt.
They should just rely on the support of their own faction. Play off that their was nothing they could do. It already sounds like currently their own faction has more power and backing.