Lady Evony - Vol. 1 Ch. 12

[icekatze]

@comedyxtragedy @minar @amiradiana
I'm not really concerned about if it is romance or not. It's stuff like, "I did agree to be his excellency's exploitable chess piece, but I mustn't pose as a threat to him." and "If all I do is sit around like a pretty doll and not doing anything, then I can't be much help to the archduke," or "I won't be concerned over what is right or wrong, and I won't expect a reward. If you give me the chance, I will do anything for you." Like, would it have killed them to give her a shred of agency?

Presumably we're reading the same manhwa. This ML, he's treating Ebony like an object, knowing she has serious mental trauma, he exploits her with an insanely one-sided contract.

"All rights, except the right to live, shall be delegated to Dante Vorde Schneider." So, it's bad when the bad guys use women like objects and take their rights, but when Dante does it, he's a good guy, cause he gives them food and a nice bed? Like that's the bar for human decency we're using?

Ebony thinks, "Revenge. It is a very sweet temptation... However. That can't be the ultimate goal in the life that I want."

Ebony says, "I want to be a better person!" She wants to embrace the affection of the world.

Dante basically says, "Well, you've agreed to do anything for me, so you're going to get revenge anyway. Enjoy!"

And then Ebony is like, "I did agree to that, so I'll never betray you ever, and make sure to limit myself so I'm never a threat to you either."

Maybe I've misinterpreted the reason why they had her get a false tooth implant, which is usually used for poison, and the meaning of the imagery of killing rats in traps, or stabbing people with spears with no mercy, or talking about stabbing people in the backs. But it wouldn't have been so bad if Ebony was like, "Forget being a better person, I want revenge!"

It might be that their opponents are villainous, but does that really justify taking someone with obvious mental trauma and turning them into a soldier to fight your battles? That's realistically the last person you'd want to do something like this. But I guess because she' smart, that mental trauma will only be beneficial. 🙄

 

[archkey]

@icekatze hi hello the TL here, let me try to clear up the things you're having problems with.

first of all, let me say that what minar said was exactly right.

dante, the archduke, doesn't see her as an object. as you can see, he repeatedly asked her what she wanted to do before telling her his plan. if she decided she wants nothing to do with it, then he would comply. his plan would work the best with her in it, sure, but he wouldn't force her. it just happens that ebony herself is the type of person who gives her all to the mission given to her with her consent.

about the "ultimate life", ebony said that 'revenge can't be the ultimate life i want' because it's true, she doesn't want her life to be circled around revenge. this 'revenge' they talked about is basically doing to them what they did to her - beating her up, throwing her into a jail, almost killing her by executing her with a crime she never did.
dante's plan is not to do that. he wants to mock them. to trample all over their disgusting pride. to change the country itself from the core - the nobles. by purging, he means he wants to change the nobles' way of thinking by purging the old ways.

in the end she decided her ultimate life to be 'a better person', in a sense that she would not let other people trample all over her anymore. it doesn't mean she wants nothing to do with dante's plan. it actually means she wants to help him with his plan. she complies with his plan because she, too, wants those people to get a taste of their own medicine. remember, she's mad MAD at them too. who wouldn't??

and yes you misinterpreted.
false teeth implant? it's simply because her teeth fell off when she got beaten up in the prison.
the imagery of killing rats in traps = rats are usually used to imply corrupted people and it's a TRAP. she's about to trap them into fooling themselves.
the spear? it's an imagery of an "attack" she'll do to these people's PRIDE.
the talk about stabbing in the back? once again this is talking about attacking those people's pride, not a literal stabbing.

i hope that clears it up for you.

 

[icekatze]

@archkey
If the heavy handed symbolism of weapons, lethal traps, talk of stabbing, and going to war really are nothing but hyperbole, that's less awful than I was thinking. I still think it's a bit misleading, as this latest stretch of the story seems far removed from the "household of warm employees and servants," from the synopsis, but I'm willing to accept that I'm taking it too literally. I can admit that is a flaw of mine.

As for Dante. He did ask her what she wanted, but that was after she signed her rights away in the contract. And even after she answered that she wanted something other than revenge, he's pretty much disregarded that.

Thanks for helping to clear things up. I know I probably sound really bitter, but I appreciate you taking the time to humor my concerns anyways.

I suppose I'll give the story another shot and hopefully see Ebony get to be a better person. (I Doubt I'll ever like Dante, but if Ebony can eventually grow up and reach a point where she's not submitting her rights to him before every other consideration like he's the sole reason for her existence and can actually achieve some real freedom, I suppose I can live with that.)

 

[comedyxtragedy]

@izekatze Maybe she acts like this because she is given second chance. Remember that she spent time in prison with good inmates for long time. Revenge was the least thing she concerns and survive was priority. After given freedom, she probably doesn't know what to do.
This is kind of like why I forgive my bully after several years. Revenge just isn't worthy, I rather use my time to improve myself. (Or in Ebony case, improve society and rule).

Honestly, I prefer the Dante this way. Remember that he chooses Ebony for specific reason because she is from prestigious family. Her intelligence also play her a favor. I prefer their relationship strict in partnership, nothing more.
And yes, she exploited Ebony in certain way, but still in humane way. Ebony is PAWN. A wild card he will use on certain occasion. Dante isn't completely good person and fall to gray morality. He is USING her and she only allows it because this is second chance to live and prove of her gratitude. While Dante is cold and calculating, at least he is not heartless bastard.

And I ask you a question, if Dante throws her, where else she will go? Would you rather working under someone who treat you well and make him your friend or throw the opportunity? The benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

 

[icekatze]

@comedyxtragedy
I realize that my point of view may be different from others, but as someone who was abused growing up, I don't have much tolerance for it as an adult.

Pointing a gun at someone's head and telling them to sign the document, telling a starving family to sell their children in order to get food, telling someone to give up their human rights in exchange for protection; these are among the most stupidly evil acts I can think of. But when playing the Ultimatum Game, sometimes you have to say "no deal."

Although it is a purely hypothetical question, if Ebony were informed enough to make an informed decision, she might try going to the queen of Babel. From a legal and ethical standpoint, it is arguable whether the the queen's demand for the 'witch's' immediate release can be satisfied if her rights are abrogated. If someone demanded I give up my rights and effectively be a loyal slave, I would not consider them to be treating me well. If a meal, a bath, a bed, and medical treatment were enough of a reward to buy my freedom, a modern prison would suffice.

 

[archkey]

@icekatze yep, pretty sure they're just symbolism.

anyway, remember that ebony was a prisoner and dante released a death convict (aka someone who the country deems as a serious criminal). the contract HAD to include that clause about the rights or people would probably try to take ebony back to prison. at least he could give her rein over her rights to live.

dante didn't disregard her wishes. she didn't say she didn't want to exact revenge on those people, she only said she didn't want THAT to be her ultimate goal. "ultimate" is the key here. it means that if she had said she wanted revenge, then if the revenge is done she wouldn't have any goal anymore. that's why she chose a bigger ultimate goal.

and ebony IS informed enough. she is intelligent, she read a lot of books when she was still a noble. she knew about the queen of babel and she knew perfectly well what she's going into when she agrees to dante's plans. the only reason an intelligent woman like her got jailed in the first place was because she was powerless as a woman in kalcass and there was no one to back her up.

basically, ebony isn't stupid. don't worry about her. if she didn't know she would be helping dante with his plans when she answered him, would she be asking something like "so what do i have to do for the plan to work?" right away?

about romance,

Spoiler

there will be romance between dante and ebony. but it isn't really the focus of the series since their main goal isn't to love each other. more like as they go towards their goal, they find love for each other.

 

[TreeU]

Woohoo! Can't wait for the next coming chaps! Thank you for the update =D

 

[kingofhell99]

@icekatze as @archkey pointed out he made the contract the best he could without getting the noble backlash,didn't he himself say he wanted to make a more favorable contract? Even if the contract does only guarantee her right to live it also says he will be fully responsible for her and i think that in that country that's as progressive as he could make it at that time,he did give her one contract before if i remember correctly but he remade it this time to be as favourable to her as possible at that time and under those circumstances

 

[yuchiyo]

She’s sooo cool

 

[kingofhell99]

@icekatze yeah i just went back and she said the contract is too favorable knowing her positon but he himself said he will work on tge contract to make it better for her,also when she was shown in the last chapter before this mass release,she was holding the king chess pieve when he talked about her so i thinl that's an indicator he doesn't see her as disposable

 

[zanzwi]

i-i think i’m in love with her also thanks for the mass update and all your hard work 😭🙏🏼✨

 

[umemiya]

This went in a different direction from what I thought but I like it. I'm excited to see what comes next. Thanks for the translation

 

[icekatze]

@archkey @kingofhell99
As far as I can tell, it was the queen of Babel that ordered Ebony's release, and Dante was just the person who 'got stuck complying,' from the perspective of the nobility in Kalcass.

Ebony said the contract was too favorable, but she also said that she was dirty and didn't deserve happiness, which was also incorrect. The original contract wasn't even written in a language that she shouldn't have been able to read, making her understanding and participation largely symbolic. That makes sense from the perspective of a government that doesn't think she has rights in the first place. Dante is the one who is making sure she internalizes the forfeiture of rights, which especially given her vulnerable state, is really exploitative.

 

[LaDeeDah]

Gosh this is so interesting. There's some issues with this webtoon, but I can live with it (for now).

 

[Hananajam]

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
THis is GOODD . I LIKe the way this is heading

 

[blazing_boz]

@archkey
You are severally undermining the effects of abuse has on a person’s psychology.

Reading books on it self doesn’t make a person smart, it just makes them well read…and even if a person is intelligent that doesn’t mean experiencing years of torture and abuse will not affect them. There our prison of war that were high ranking solders and officers that survive and come back home only to struggle with PTSD and depression for rest of their lives, their intelligence and proficiently in battle did not protect their mentality and it certain will not protect a little girl with no tolerance for abuse.

This is alongside being raise in a society that doesn’t treat them like human beings and does not give you person hood. They way a society see's you is going to effect how individuals see themselves as a whole in addition to the way others treat them. There is a reason why newly freed slaves still accepted conditions that were not that much better for them from white farms like "sharecropping". Their is a reason why woman only got legal protected from spousal abuse, when mental abuse still happen. Human being do not just get over class-based oppression that been ingrained into their society and will effect the way a person perceive themselves. It takes generations for people to unlearn demoralizing ideology that the society the live in feels about them and even come up with the language to describe said abuse. “civil rights /violence against woman laws /child labor laws are NEW terms. And this story set in 18th-19 century doesn’t really have them. They are freshly being introduced and will not be a level of refinery that modern society enjoys.

Dante IS disregarding her wishes; she has been given about a week [12 days to be exact] to recover and he quickly introduces his plans to her. When he did, she was cleaning up his house along with the other maids. That means she doesn’t see herself as a noble or a lady but a servant. In a class-based society like this one, someone in a Noble status being reduced to a servant is huge insult.Its not even a lower rank in class like going from a Count to a Barron but a lowly position of "the help/ a cleaner/ ". Many people in modern society look down on custodial works and it was even worst in the past.This show's that she was a pretty degrading self image. She is not in the mindset to even be asked this question. He was told by the doctor *he* hired that it would take her a while to recover from that level of abuse and mistreatment. She is actively receiving dental and spinal treatment which was CUT SHORT for his plans along with recovering from years of torture. As shown in chapter 3, her through process is one that hopes to give him a “an appropriate answer” especial because she noticed he didn’t like the answer she gave him the first time. Her suspicion on hoping to give him an answer that he wanted were not unfounded considering he told her “You passed Ebony” in ch.8 after she answered his question. [ Dante is the one that promoted the question about revenge in the first place, she articulate her answer around his statements. Even her declaration to give him her all, except for her life is an immediate refer back to the wording conceived on the contract. She is specifically saying things he will find agreeable- shaped by how her society functions and her fear of abuse.]

Even if he is being "kind" to her he still has huge level of power over her life which he hasn’t relinquished. “ All rights except the right to live shall be delegated to Dante V S.” meaning he is holding on to having full control over ever aspect of her life except for the right to just murder her- which is essential a slave contract and she thought even that was too favorable for her. If he wants he can keep her half alive and still torture her going on the wording of this agreement. People that are just getting out of abusive situations are scared that it is going to happen again and will do anything to avoid that happening again .Her personality and mental state are shown to be one that isn’t going to think of her opinion but what the man in charge of her life wants to here. The man is fully ware of the power he has over the situation and the advantage he over the party he is asking mentally, psychical and legal . Medical and legal personal that he hired and trust have already assured him of these facts but he asked Ebony anyway. She doesn’t even have the confidence or self esteem not ask the Duke to NOT eat her food, or simply ask the cook for more—but to say she has the same well withal to dictate and initiate her legal rights and personhood in a country where they don’t exist ...and have the full capability to consist to his plans ?!? Highly Improbable.

Conscripting her to his plans is, to use an obvious and extreme example, the equivalent to asking someone in the middle of a manic episode in their bipolar cycle if they want to get married- they aren’t of sound mind to actually understand the discussion.

 

[archkey]

@blazing_boz alright, i can't argue that i am not as knowledgeable in psychology as you are, but in no way was i saying that "since ebony is smart, she wasn't hurt/traumatized at all". of course i know she's most likely traumatized - the author indicated this by her empty gaze when she first arrived.

about ebony's answers and dante's acceptance of those answers, what the author wants to convey is simply that the first time ebony answered, dante disliked it because it was an answer to please other people instead for herself. and then the 2nd time, after she's given a chance to recover in those 12 days (actually it just says "more than 10 days" instead of a dozen, so it's a slight mistranslation in my part, but i doubt it makes much difference 😂) and regain her vitality, she could already think for herself instead of "yes, whatever you say". basically now she can actively take part more than the first time he asked her.

i can't say her answer is just to please dante. imo she does want revenge, but she just doesn't want it to be her main purpose of life. she still has a deep grudge against those noblemen and the ones who abused her, but she decided she wants to be above them instead of being in the same level as them. but unlike normal good person, she doesn't want to just be "i'll be a better person so those guys can see shine!" - she wants a part in taking them down. while doing that, she can also show her gratitude to dante by helping him. two birds one stone, don't you think??

also please rest assured, i'm pretty sure her treatments are not cut short and still continued even after she was given this mission. there's also an unspecified time from when juro starts managing her to her "debut".

i know that dante is manipulative and basically has no tact LMAO but keep in mind that he spent most of his time overseas, where men and women are treated as equals compared to the blatantly mysoginist kalcass. he probably has no idea how to handle someone like ebony, who is like the worst case of a kalcass woman, and it's also why he's going about things in very weird ways. but i honestly doubt he's thinking of her as a tool that he can dominate, which is the main concern of this debate in the first place.

 

[blazing_boz]

@archkey
Eh~ considering the degree to manipulation and exploitation he’s using, even if he isn’t completely dominating/ or subjecting her free will its still pretty bad. I don’t see how referring another human being as a joker in a card which is a literal object, not objectifying ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. He is of sound mind and body and old,smart and privilege enough to fully understand what he is doing even if its not in the most horrific way possible. Being well traveled and understanding different cultures tends to make people even more aware of how culture differences work then less. In fact, its usual easier to noticed if another class or group of people is being oppressed and treated badly because the discrepancy in treatment Is quite clear…and again, His hired doctor has explained her state to him. Im sure the doctor would elaborate more if needed.

Reiterating what I said before, Her answers aren’t as bad as the first day but she is still saying things to please him she, is just being smarter about it. I know the narrative tone of the story is trying to portray that things are ~much~ better after a few days, but they really aren’t …which Is why I mentioned how society can effect a persons mentality on top of mental & physical abuse in addition to the incredible power imbalance. She picked her answer on what she wanted to do based of the prompts the Duke gave her, not ones she came up with herself. If she had an idea of what she wanted she would have said so , but he is aware that those thoughts haven’t crossed her mind so he crafted his prompts in the conversation towards what he wanted from her.Slightly better answers is not equaling to fully restored agency.

I believe, she did not say she wanted revenge just that the Duke mention it was tempting. Maybe you have read ahead but her answer in ch.8 was “ It is a very sweet temptation. However, that’s can’t be the ultimate goal”. She isn’t sure what she feels just yet.

True I have no idea what the time frame is but- in my experience a back brace needs to be worn all the time for it to work properly [sometimes you can take it off during sleep and of course when bathing]. You’re not supposed to take it of “When you go out” as Juro stated. Its going to ruin the treatment. Depending on what her spinal issues are, wearing a corset to go with the dresses and a back brace interchangeably will make her health worst as well. If you’re getting new teeth you shouldn’t be talking that much either so etiquette and speech training isn’t possible either [depending on how many she needs,probably a lot I doubt their was health care in the woman's prison]. Juro seems like he is in a rush since he is holding a watch and packing her schedule full of training and fitting-so while the time frame is unclear there is an insinuated rush and lack of time for their preparation. The story also mentions how her body weight is low and that she hasn’t been able to eat because she is so busy, with the aforementioned packed schedule so her treatment is defiantly being disruptive in some regards.

[from a writing standpoint….why even mention all her trauma and medical ailments if your just going “yadda yadda” over them.]

 

[Nixnaw]

Girl looks slaying.

 

[Kaldrak]

Now THIS looks like it could be very entertaining...or possibly quite disastrous.