Lilim Holic - Vol. 2 Ch. 17 - Lilim's Lesson

[MangaDex]

 

[ShineIsOne]

 

[Litreara]

So even though there wasn't exactly a case against Rinka, she did face consequences. I'm fine with that.

What I don't like is that the author is kinda putting Emu in the same situation as Rinka, since Emu entered Yui's dream without his consent.

Also, I really hope Rinka doesn't develop feelings for Yui and start going after him. Please don't turn this into harem crap.

Thanks for the chapter!

 

[UdenEmpati]

Okay, I dig this. The author clearly thought through some of the lore ramifications for succubi, and even worked in some of the issues real-world women can face when it comes to physical attraction and rhe general risks of superficiality in relationships overall.

Rinka's character being worked back into the narrative by way of worldbuilding and having her grow as a person through the ramifications of what she'd done is neat to see.

I do hope she finds her own happy ending.

 

[Doutorfunga]

I'm here just wondering when did Lilina Sanada enter this story XD

 

[Junomano]

People make mistakes, it’s just bad if you don’t learn from them
I like people who want to do better(in a positive manner)
Ty for tl

 

[Kinkaiser]

I don't like how that talk was basically "We are held to a higher standard because people fear us, so we can't do 'sexual mischief' or 'non-consensual obscenity' or we'll face punishment" instead of "That's an invasion of privacy at best, but is probably just straight up sexual assault. Don't commit sex crimes. That's an everyone rule."

 

[medrus_358]

So once Lilim gets Yui 's consent they will have quite literally "Dreamy sex"

 

[medrus_358]

I don't like how that talk was basically "We are held to a higher standard because people fear us, so we can't do 'sexual mischief' or 'non-consensual obscenity' or we'll face punishment" instead of "That's an invasion of privacy at best, but is probably just straight up sexual assault. Don't commit sex crimes. That's an everyone rule."

But she did say (the senior sucubus) to her that just because Yui didn't press charges is that she is not "jailed", besides in spanish she's told even if the aggresor is a woman having sexual act with someone incapable of saying no, is assault; in english i don´t know

 

[UdenEmpati]

I don't like how that talk was basically "We are held to a higher standard because people fear us, so we can't do 'sexual mischief' or 'non-consensual obscenity' or we'll face punishment" instead of "That's an invasion of privacy at best, but is probably just straight up sexual assault. Don't commit sex crimes. That's an everyone rule."

Ideally your "instead of" would be the way it would be, yes. The issue is that succubi are human+, but this series in general involves established "IRL lore" about succubi, and the negative connotations they carry for the general populace that knows about them. We see that reflected in Rinka's conversation with her mother; how the guy who confessed to her was in all likelihood simply going after because she's a "sex demon" (even as their teacher emphasizes that demons aren't real, merely "manufactured" by peoples' perceptions of things they don't understand).

That's the crux of the issue, and it's actually not even farfetched; plenty of real-life examples exist of people having to be "extra careful" because of characteristics or presumptions about them stacking the deck against them in the eyes of society. as a single common example, people who are tall or big can be seen as physically imposing and threatening, and must conduct themselves accordingly so as not to be seen as brutish. If they get into an altercation, their physicality will have fingers pointed at them first and foremost as the most immediately apparent physical threat. So they have to account for that in social interactions with others.

And succubi are clearly inherently powerful, even if it's not uniform across all individuals. That power carries implicit responsibility to ensure it isn't misused, as the extent of that power, and the particular facets of human sexuality that it correlates with, will paint succubi in a negative light toward the communities they reside in.

It's not fair. It's not meant to be fair, and the author isn't even making that argument. But it's a reality that Emu and Rinka and all the others have to acknowledge and adhere to, because things get very difficult for them otherwise.

 

[MisterMemeDaddy]

Also, I really hope Rinka doesn't develop feelings for Yui and start going after him. Please don't turn this into harem crap.

Nah I hope it does turn into harem slop, somebody needs to get this romance moving.

 

[Kinkaiser]

That's the crux of the issue, and it's actually not even farfetched; plenty of real-life examples exist of people having to be "extra careful" because of characteristics or presumptions about them stacking the deck against them in the eyes of society. as a single common example, people who are tall or big can be seen as physically imposing and threatening, and must conduct themselves accordingly so as not to be seen as brutish. If they get into an altercation, their physicality will have fingers pointed at them first and foremost as the most immediately apparent physical threat. So they have to account for that in social interactions with others.

I'm just saying the specifics of what they're talking about aren't things that should be considered "being extra careful", they're blatant violations of other people's autonomy. Using your example, it would be like if I as someone who is both big and tall is told "People might find you more imposing, so you have to be careful and not punch them directly in the face." Its a bizarre implication that the thing they're being told not to do is only off limits because of what they are, instead of it just being a morally abhorrent thing to do. The blonde succubus is even shocked that she could be arrested for magically sexually assaulting someone. I feel like the succubus need to be taught basic ethics as a framework for their succubi-specific situation, and that isn't the vibe this lecture gives.

 

[DrNo]

The mangaka got the last page just right. Both of their expressions are great.

 

[Litreara]

Nah I hope it does turn into harem slop, somebody needs to get this romance moving.

And since when is there any romance progress in harem slop? Take Kuroiwa Medaka ni Watashi no Kawaii ga Tsuujinai and Kakkou no Iinazuke, for example. All the harem element does is drag out the romance instead of actually letting it progress.

 

[UdenEmpati]

I'm just saying the specifics of what they're talking about aren't things that should be considered "being extra careful", they're blatant violations of other people's autonomy. Using your example, it would be like if I as someone who is both big and tall is told "People might find you more imposing, so you have to be careful and not punch them directly in the face." Its a bizarre implication that the thing they're being told not to do is only off limits because of what they are, instead of it just being a morally abhorrent thing to do. The blonde succubus is even shocked that she could be arrested for magically sexually assaulting someone. I feel like the succubus need to be taught basic ethics as a framework for their succubi-specific situation, and that isn't the vibe this lecture gives.

I mean, they don't simplify it to "be extra careful", the point the teacher makes is "we have to live more righteously than humans because otherwise they'll paint us as demons". And the connotation there is that all succubi would suffer as a collective and be "other'd" by humanity if they weren't so rigid in self-policing the usage of their powers. "Demons" in that context are frightening nonhuman monstrosities that pose a threat to people, and the teacher is saying that succubi have to be mindful, and go above and beyond even what would be expected of "normal human folks", to ensure their conduct remains above reproach.

Which, again, is the important bit—yes, it's baseline ethics to not do bad things to people or to violate their autonomy. But it's more dangerous for succubi, because they're already "not like normal humans", and have to be aware of the historical prejudice placed upon them because of the specific nature of their powers and the lore/facets of what succubi are. If one of them fucks up and causes issues, it comes back on all of them, not just that individual. People IRL have an amazing record of being outrageously prejudiced toward things that they don't understand and thus fear—it's how racism exists in the first place. So the through-line of succubi having to go the extra step due to their inherent nature opening them up to more scrutiny and suspicion from humans means they have a higher hurdle to clear to maintain good standing in society.

To your last sentence—they absolutely were taught stuff like that, the teachers says as such in this very chapter. Rinka's just a special case of not having listened/internalized it seriously enough. Maybe she's a bit of a moron, maybe some aspect of her upbringing makes her feel like she's "above" things, but that's an individual problem of hers that she has to grow out of, not a systemic issue of succubi.

 

[Moody0_0]

So I just reread starting from chapter 5. I SWEAR there was 1 panel showing somebody in a hoodie lurking outside either MCs or FMCs home before the dream thing. But I can't find it. Instead the only thing is someone knocking on MC's bedroom door. Am I mandella effecting myself?

So is it really not a third party interfering but FMC somehow activating her powers accidentally yet somehow not having her horns come out to do so??????

 

[outinthegardener]

I'm just saying the specifics of what they're talking about aren't things that should be considered "being extra careful", they're blatant violations of other people's autonomy. Using your example, it would be like if I as someone who is both big and tall is told "People might find you more imposing, so you have to be careful and not punch them directly in the face." Its a bizarre implication that the thing they're being told not to do is only off limits because of what they are, instead of it just being a morally abhorrent thing to do. The blonde succubus is even shocked that she could be arrested for magically sexually assaulting someone. I feel like the succubus need to be taught basic ethics as a framework for their succubi-specific situation, and that isn't the vibe this lecture gives.

There's another wrinkle to this question, which is that an identical action can be morally different because of different contexts. In this case of succubi, entering someone's dream to have dream sex could be done with clear consent from their partner, and thus be acceptable. A big person punching someone in self-defense or in a boxing match is fine, punching someone because they felt insulted or because they want to steal a wallet would not.

The trick here is that just being a succubus makes your acceptable contexts much narrower. They could get verbal consent, and then the person could lie or poorly represent the act, and it's more likely that the succubus would be blamed in the public's eye. That's what they mean by being extra careful. It's not just about doing right instead of wrong, it's about protecting themselves even in the instances where it's technically right.

And another-another wrinkle- The othering phenomenon is applied to all succubi, not just the individual succubi who misbehaves. There's a reading where Rinka is being told "Don't do this again, you're going to make it tougher for the rest of us!"

As far as what was depicted in this story, you are absolutely right. It's not just that RInka wasn't careful enough, she genuinely did wrong by someone. Her act wasn't ok in the context she did it, full stop.

 

[razorshaleh]

Emu after having a wet dream and invading MC's dream in the previous chapter

thank you for translation

 

[WatermelonPlease]

So they have a whole campus for them with education and legal teams

 

[KnightSpark]

Clearly, this kinda of thing is taken seriously if she's gotten the riot act from 30 people. Though I would imagine she would be on some form of probation going forward.