Live Dungeon! - Vol. 3 Ch. 16 - Run, Amy
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Well, time for me to break my silence, I guess...
I personally don't fully understand the hate towards Amy.
I mean, I get it, she's brash and forceful, not to mention that her intentions to push the team to further heights causes unnnecessary friction. I see her mostly as a "tryhard" kind of character that might save unnecessary trouble to the team is she just stops and think. That I can see.
But I don't see her as unnecessary. She has shown character development and that she can learn and adapt to the situation, even if her brashness continues. And even then, her reaction and actions towards the paper is not entirely unreasonable, if unnecessary violent.
And she'll have learnt from this no doubt, or most likely Garm make her learn from this.
And also, as a team menber she's still useful. Kamiyu is the "explosive" DPS while her is the "constant" one. Both have a place in a team and she returning will only make the team stronger, specially with Garm and Tsutomu to rein her in.
However, this is my opinion. She's not the best character at all, but I don't see her as unecessary. If you can tell me things that I've missed, please tell me.
I personally don't fully understand the hate towards Amy.
I mean, I get it, she's brash and forceful, not to mention that her intentions to push the team to further heights causes unnnecessary friction. I see her mostly as a "tryhard" kind of character that might save unnecessary trouble to the team is she just stops and think. That I can see.
But I don't see her as unnecessary. She has shown character development and that she can learn and adapt to the situation, even if her brashness continues. And even then, her reaction and actions towards the paper is not entirely unreasonable, if unnecessary violent.
Not that many of us would have reacted differently. *wink, wink*
And also, as a team menber she's still useful. Kamiyu is the "explosive" DPS while her is the "constant" one. Both have a place in a team and she returning will only make the team stronger, specially with Garm and Tsutomu to rein her in.
However, this is my opinion. She's not the best character at all, but I don't see her as unecessary. If you can tell me things that I've missed, please tell me.
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@Korvalus theres hate for Amy because like you said she's "TRYHARD" type and NO one likes a try hard, they are legit really annoying to see and Amy has gotten even MORE hate when everyone realized how amazing dragon waifu is hence why all the amy hate, like you said she isn't useless she just sucks compared to dragon waifu as a char and the try hard annoyance
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@dokidoki: So I was on the right track, but the last straw was... comparison? Because Kamiyu is apparently in the same slot as Amy, but is a better character? Just that?
@cor3zone: I think that's more in a case-to-case basis. There have been times that Garm was able to draw aggro like a boss with Kamiyu in full dragon and other that with just Amy he struggled. Garm is becoming a better tank so probably when Amy returns he is able to tank with all three.
Probably it's me that doesn't hate chatacters easily, but I still think that both Amy and Kamiyu can coexist in the same narrative.
@cor3zone: I think that's more in a case-to-case basis. There have been times that Garm was able to draw aggro like a boss with Kamiyu in full dragon and other that with just Amy he struggled. Garm is becoming a better tank so probably when Amy returns he is able to tank with all three.
Probably it's me that doesn't hate chatacters easily, but I still think that both Amy and Kamiyu can coexist in the same narrative.
@Korvalus IIRC, everytime Garm was able to pull aggro back was when Tsutomu told Kamiyu to lay off a little. Meaning if both Amy and Kamiyu are in the party, they would not be able to fight at peak capability. They would both need to hold back a lot.
What the party needs, if Amy returns, is another member to juggle some aggro with Garm. Maybe a backliner, like a mage.
What the party needs, if Amy returns, is another member to juggle some aggro with Garm. Maybe a backliner, like a mage.
@burdrann A backline DPS, like a mage, can stand behind Garm. Meaning Garm doesn't need to always hold aggro, since he can just intercept any attacks meant for the backliner. We've already seen that DPS pull aggro just by dealing damage. More DPS members=more damage=harder for Garm to hold aggro. Since Amy and Kamiyu are both frontline melee fighters, it's harder for Garm to cover them.
@cor3zone "We've already seen that DPS pull aggro just by dealing damage. More DPS members=more damage=harder for Garm to hold aggro." that's not tanking works.
to make things easier to see lets say when you cast a spell or attack you generate a threat point or TP. Garm being a tank generates threat at around 100 TP a min. Kamiyu when going all out generates 105 TP a minute with her high dps. now in this case Kamiyu needs to either not go all out so that her TP generation is lower or occasionally stop to allow Garm to get a buffer in TP values so Kamiyu doesn't exceed Gram's current TP with the target. now if we add Amy to the mix if her dps generates 90 TP a minute then she will never pull agro as she will never have more TP than Garm or Kamiyu.
to make things easier to see lets say when you cast a spell or attack you generate a threat point or TP. Garm being a tank generates threat at around 100 TP a min. Kamiyu when going all out generates 105 TP a minute with her high dps. now in this case Kamiyu needs to either not go all out so that her TP generation is lower or occasionally stop to allow Garm to get a buffer in TP values so Kamiyu doesn't exceed Gram's current TP with the target. now if we add Amy to the mix if her dps generates 90 TP a minute then she will never pull agro as she will never have more TP than Garm or Kamiyu.
@burdrann You seem to be thinking in game terms. It been established this is not the game world (using a debuff skill to deal damage), so it's not applicable. Enemies work more on 'hate'; i.e. if a bunch of people keep stabbing it, it's more likely to focus on attackers (stabs hurt, monsters 'hate' that) than Garm's taunts and such. They are not programmed, they follow instincts.
@cor3zone what logical reason is there for gram to suddenly have a hard time with agro adding another person with which he didn't have any threat issues with previously? it should just be a fight between gram and kamiyu as of the two it has shown that kamiyu's dps is enough to pull threat from gram but with amy's isn't.
@burdrann They had issues at the start, IIRC, Amy going too fast so he couldn't keep up. And Garm isn't the only one getting better all the time, Amy will too.
To use your way of thinking, in my mind the 'TP' is not individual, but rather per 'zone'. I.e. offensive frontline have their 'TP', defensive tanks theirs, offensive backline theirs, etc.. What Garm does is pulling attention from the damage dealt, but if Amy generates 90 'TP' and Kamiyu 105, that means Garm's 100 'TP' won't cover their combined 195. Add a mage behind Garm, generating maybe 100 'TP' or more, and their combined 200 'TP' would cover the frontline's 195 'TP'.
Either way, nice discussion, but it seems we won't agree. I'll stop.
To use your way of thinking, in my mind the 'TP' is not individual, but rather per 'zone'. I.e. offensive frontline have their 'TP', defensive tanks theirs, offensive backline theirs, etc.. What Garm does is pulling attention from the damage dealt, but if Amy generates 90 'TP' and Kamiyu 105, that means Garm's 100 'TP' won't cover their combined 195. Add a mage behind Garm, generating maybe 100 'TP' or more, and their combined 200 'TP' would cover the frontline's 195 'TP'.
Either way, nice discussion, but it seems we won't agree. I'll stop.
@burdrann Read my comment. They are both melee attackers, in one 'zone'. Monster has people nearby stabbing, hates them. Monster has people far away taunting and throwing spells, hates them. It's not a system, like a game. The monster doesn't know the stat 'TP', it just knows where the bigger threat is.
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@RolandMayfield
Well damn, as many chapters devoted about this I'm starting to forget what the story was really about
Well damn, as many chapters devoted about this I'm starting to forget what the story was really about
@cor3zone a taunt makes the monster think that the bigger threat is the tank (this has been established in the story). yes, combined the monster may view both attackers as a bigger threat than the one tank, however just like it doesn't snow that stat 'TP' it doesn't know the role DPS and so it doesn't view the dps as one target but 2 individual ones meaning that it will still think the bigger threat is the tank.
unless you can explain why it views the 2 dps and tank as 2 seperate units.
unless you can explain why it views the 2 dps and tank as 2 seperate units.
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