Love is Still Too Early for Himeno-chan

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
462
Tsubasa is the best character in this series by a margin !! The main lead is not bad,infact she is also a very good character, but tsubasa is COOL!!

She deserves a series on her along with yocchan. They are certainly more fun than our main couple.

The scanlator drama is entertaining, unless there is no bad blood, its all in good faith.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
594
Is it me?

Or did the quality of the translation got lower in recent chapters?

And what's with the recent chapter skipping!?

No offense to the other scanlator groups but I think Fanged Scans did a better job.

Seriously....
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
124
Good job for scanlators picking this again, tbh i have read this couple months ago and it's just only few chapter. I'm stick to this no matter what, as long my favourite manga keep translated even with this 3 scanlators i don't mind it. Also i don't care how much that scanning quality.
 
Power Uploader
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,367
@heynow different romanization style — the reason "ha" is frequently used here, is simply because it's spelt that way in Japanese, based on the historical pronunciation.

Of course, the consistent man would use "Himeno-tyan ni Koi ha Mada Hayai"; be one to use an orthography-based romanization scheme rather than one based on pronunciation, one might as well do it completely consistently and spell it as "tyan" to reflect the orthography in Japanese.
 
Group Leader
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
64
@trapsarebetter how is it i am the one being pretentious when you spell pretentious with an æ. also, of course i know what you meant. i was just pointing out how wacky it is to ascribe english norms onto a foreign syllabary. if you are going to transcribe it phonetically, which is the only way a foreign language should be ever transcribed, there is no reason to ever decode は as "ha."
 
Power Uploader
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,367
@heynow that is very much a subjective opinion; with Korean switching from McCune–Reisschauer to the Revised System, Japanese is the only language left that is still commonly transcribed phonetically; there are multiple problems with phonetic transcriptions:
[ol]
[*]Pronunciation is not consistent amongst speakers of languages to begin with. Hepburn made the choice to transcribe the hu-kana as <fu> because it's closer to how it's often pronounced; but many speakers of Japanese consistently pronounced it as "hu" anyway, which is a pronunciation that is getting increasingly more common in Japanese.
[*]One can never truly catch the phonology of one language in that of another anyway. Hepburn made the choice to write the si-kana as <shi>, based on the English [ʃi], the actual sound is usually [ɕi], but many Japanese speakers just say [si] in various cases, as the two don't contrast before /i/ in Japanese.
[*]It's based upon the idea that the phonetics can be caught on kana alone. In particular with the za-row, this is problematic: They are affricatives, or fricatives, largely depending on what comes before it; this contrast is not meaningful in Japanese, but it is in English.
[*]The phonetic transcription has to be based on the phonology of some language; Hepburn chose "English for consonants; Italian for vowels"; neither of which are particularly accurate for the true realization, but why English? not everyone speaks English? To a Dutch speaker the Japanese realization of /hu/ will almost never sound like /fu/; it will sound like /hy/ or /xy/ ; likewise to a Dutch speaker the Japanese realization of /hi/ will sound like /xi/ — /x/ of course being a phoneme that English famously lost, leading to a lot of silent <gh> in English orthography.
[/ol]

Please, name me another language than Japanese that is commonly transcribed to another alphabet based on phonetics in another language, rather than a structural transcription based on the native orthography. You state like fact that it "should" be "wa", but I find the arguments for the Nihon-siki system to be far more compelling.
 
Group Leader
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
64
@trapsarebetter

1. ふ is a bilabial fricative. for english speakers, "fu" is as close as we can get to that.
2. ɕi is shi. Japanese people say shi. し is shi.
3. this case doesnt matter for english either.
4.its based on english because english is the world language. there has to be a baseline otherwise nothing will ever get done.

Korean.
 
Power Uploader
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,367
@heynow:

>1. ふ is a bilabial fricative. for english speakers, "fu" is as close as we can get to that.

This is something said by those that read a quick article on Japanese phonology, never having actually listened to spoken Japanese. /h/ before /u/ is often realized as [ɸ], yes; it's often also realized as {h}, as [x̟], [x], or indeed even [f], depending on speaker, what follows after it, mood of the speaker, and anything else. Does this here sound even remotely close to a voiceless bilabial fricative to you? That /hu/ in Japanese is supposedly always realized as [ɸɯ] is idealized theory that is far from the actual practice of spoken Japanese.

>2. ɕi is shi. Japanese people say shi. し is shi.

Again, theory, not practice. Many Japanese speakers just realize it as [si]

>this case doesnt matter for english either.

Yes it is, [z] is always contrastive from [dz] in English; in Japanese it never is.

>its based on english because english is the world language. there has to be a baseline otherwise nothing will ever get done.

English is the biggest language by speakers of any rough degree of competency, in order to be able to use the phonology as a baseline one would require very high competency. Most speakers of English speak it with such a strong accent that many can't even differentiate between /s/ and /ʃ/ properly; Spanish and Mandarin have more speakers of such competency that basing the phonology thereon actually has merit.

Edit, I remember a particularly pathological case in the opening line of Gabriel Dropout's theme — I feel English speakers would, were they not primed, interpret that line as "tensi no hane hilogete mina ni shukuhuku wo". In particular, note the clear articulation of the "w" in "wo" as is often done in songs; it is quite clearly so close to a pure glottal fricative there, and the /si/ is very close to an alveolar fricative, not quite there, but I feel the level of palatalization is so low that few Englishs speaker would independently come to consider it "shi" over "si" if not told in advance.
 
Group Leader
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
64
@trapsarebetter
i lived in japan for a year, studied the language for 6. granted i have only taken one general linguistics class, i understand an ipa chart. you sound like the one reading articles here.
ふ is never [x]. the place of articulation doesn't move like that.
yes that video is a voiceless bilabial fricative. btw attack on titan sucks.
you are the only one talking about realization here. im talking about transcribing standard japanese. obviously there will be exceptions for everything.
no, "many" japanese people dont say [si]. that's not true.
ずさん and ちかづいて are contrastive in japanese - [z] and [dz].
i never said english made the most sense. it is merely a baseline.
lyrics are often realized differently than spoken japanese. [ɾ] becomes [l] all day.

keep trying though. all together you've almost made one good point.
 
Power Uploader
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,367
>yes that video is a voiceless bilabial fricative
Are you serious that that realization is a bilabial fricative? That is clearly a velar fricative.

Anyway; there's actually much research into the "bilabial fricative" in Japanese; as said the pronunciation of it is ever more so shifting to a glottal consonant: http://www.askalinguist.org/uploads/2/3/8/5/23859882/an_acoustic_study_of_the_japanese_voiceless_bilabial_fricative-1.pdf

The data on speakers in that paper is pretty hard to dismiss; a lot of Japanese speakers pronounce the /h/ in /hu/ either as a plain glottal fricative, or something in-between a bilabial and glottal fricative. In many words, more speakers pronounced it as a glottal than a bilabial fricative.

One has to be appreciative of the fact that Hepburn is based on 1880s Japanese phonology; it is well accepted that the /h/ phoneme in Japanese has through the last 500 years shifted more from a bilabial to a glottal fricative and that this development was indeed retarded before /u/, but it nevertheless is happening there too, but at a slower pace. Given enough time, the expected result is that there too it will happen; and that is what the data in the paper supports. In due time, Japanese might actually distinguish /h/ and /f/ before /u/ too as it distinguishes it before all other vowels today.

>you are the only one talking about realization here. im talking about transcribing standard japanese. obviously there will be exceptions for everything.
And I'm saying that standard Japanese has a lot of free variation, which is typically the case with languages with a small phoneme inventory.

>ずさん and ちかづいて are contrastive in japanese - [z] and [dz].

First off, this is not even a minimal pair, second off, ず and づ are famously pronounced identically and have neutralized; they are kept only for systemic reasons, in particular sequential voicing; they do not phonemically contrast and つづく sounds exactly the same as the hypothetical word つずく; the reason つづく is spelt with a du-kana over a zu-kana is morphological; it derives from sequential voicing over a tu-kana.

>lyrics are often realized differently than spoken japanese. [ɾ] becomes [l] all day.

Are you seriously implying that the liquid phoneme /r/ in Japanese is consistent in spoken Japanese? The single liquid phoneme that Japanese has is renowned for its extreme amount of free variation; pretty much any liquid will do; I've even found a paper that managed to show that sometimes it's realized as a retroflex stop in spoken Japanese.
 
Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
159
If anyone ever colors this those better be tears of blood from the big brother
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2018
Messages
44
What the fuck, i came here wondering why there was a two chapter gap, but instead im getting a huge lesson on japanese linguistics.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top