Machikado Mazoku - Vol. 3 Ch. 38 - Secrets of 10 Years Ago! Memories Shaped Like Petals

[thofheinz]

@RagnMunkeez -

The interesting thing about magical girls and demons in this series, to me, is the wide range of commitment in the conflict. (There may be some very vague spoilers below.)

Lico was a refugee saved through Sakura's kindness, for which she is grateful, and she is clearly indebted from her point of view. At the same time, she's not a victim. From what she has said, she thoroughly enjoys fighting and tricking and destroying magical girls. It's fun, and vengeance against the "mikos" is sweet. Throughout the series, Momo very wisely watches her back around Lico, especially after the restaurant invasion, and she was not being paranoid about Lico possibly putting a spell or poison in food to confuse Shamiko.

Momo remains nervous about Lico, sometimes to her own detriment, but always with good reason. Lico is very charming and temperamentally kind, but she's an amoral grudge-holding dangerous demon.

 

[thofheinz]

Comment deleted, can't delete post

 

[BugDemon]

@Reiba1925
As I mentioned, there are world level threats out there. That's reason enough not to call the current world "peaceful". It is just not a constant warzone anymore.
There are straight up evil magical girls out there that seal demons just for points to get a wish.
There are demons out there who want to kill or control people.

Both sides are gray, very clearly. No matter what the Light Clan's superiors intended or what the demon clans originally were like, these days it's all individual decisions that determine morality.

 

[thofheinz]

@BugDemon -

You're right. Maybe they all need to think about why the war started in the first place, back in the ancient world.

Some very bad shit went down in Babylon.

But maybe it's not happening anymore.

 

[Reiba1925]

@BugDemon

Remind me in which chapter it was said that in modern times there were still demons that were a threat worldlevel. The only person I remember talking about the current state of the conflict between the light and dark clan is Momo, at the end of volume 1.

also, perhaps it is only my interpretation, but when you say that both sides are gray, it sounds as if youre saying that the two clans have only (or in the most) members that are all fully morally gray, instead of having both, good and evil members. I think the most appropriate thing in that case would be to say is "none is completely good or bad". Again, maybe it's just me.

 

[thofheinz]

@Reiba1925 -

And what about that freaking huge, terrifying threat that Sakura and Josh barely held off?

Magical girl and demon teaming up versus... Damn, what the hell was it?

 

[Reiba1925]

@thofheinz

That was 10 years before the start of the manga, right?

 

[thofheinz]

@Reiba1925 -

Yeah, that's what drove Sakura to her core.

But there's no indication that whatever it was, was defeated. Held back, stymied maybe, but not defeated. Well, not as far as I can remember.

 

[Reiba1925]

@thofheinz

There is also no evidence that it has not been defeated or that if it is still alive, remains a threat. So it is not conclusive evidence.

 

[thofheinz]

@Reiba1925 -

Sure it's a mystery, but the question is WHAT THE HELL WAS IT?

Insanely powerful magical girl and demon fight an enemy where the struggle reduces them to the most minimal existence. That was a very bad thing, and this mangaka leaves nothing dangling.

 

[Reiba1925]

@thofheinz

I think you lost sight of my point. My argument was "since it is not known what happened to that thing or if it continues to be a threat today, its existence cannot be used to argue that in the present time of the manga definitely there are still beings who represent a global threat." I was not questioning whether I was going to return or not, or if I was powerful or not, I only say that, since is uncertain what happened with that thing in the past, Is not clear it that thing is an threat in the present. It's a posibility?, Yes. A certainty?, No. And thus nor is it a certainty that there are still global threats in the present time of the manga, At least if you base your argument on the existence of that thing.

 

[rafavic]

shami sure loves momo's abs

 

[BlackFrost]

I've never been more excited/giddy for reading chapter until this. 'That' really came out of nowhere. I mean that outfit is the death of me

 

[Skrist]

 

[BugDemon]

@Reiba1925
Momo and her friends saved the world 7 years ago. That means a world level threat appeared as early as 7 years before the current events. That's pretty damn close. They talk about big battles and fights to the death with strong demons all the time. It's not at all a stretch to think that this is a regular occurance every few years.

Even if for some reason you want to deny it or are pedantic enough to say "this very current day is peaceful" you would still be wrong about your initial claim that navigators and magical girls are not needed anymore and that the system is obsolete. Even if there had not been a single large scale incident in 7 years in the entire world (not believable) it is still very clearly a possibility at any moment.

As for the morally gray matter... when I say the Light or Dark clan I refer to the whole organization obviously. How does my "individuals decide their own morals" part not get across what I meant? Magical Girls can be good or evil, demons can be good or evil etc.
But the demons are clearly not unified in any morally good beliefs or self-defense justifications and neither are the Light Clan whose core mantra of eliminating/sealing anything that "disturbs the natural order" is straight up cold-hearted and impersonal.

 

[Reiba1925]

@BugDemon

I will admit that saying that the system was obsolete (in the sense that they are no longer completely necessary) was extreme. But of course need to be updated.
Regarding the issue of whether the current world of MM is peaceful or not. Your mistake is that all your arguments are based on logic, not facts. You have not given any conclusive evidence that the world has faced a recent crisis or that any threat can put it in danger again, you have only given assumptions that, while reasonable, cannot be taken as 100% true because there is no evidence that supports them. I say that the world in MM is peaceful today because the only fact we know about it is the statement given by Momo in volume 1. And that statement implies:
1- There are currently no large-scale conflicts.
2- There are currently no threats world level.
3-Although there are still conflicts between demons and magical girls, these are scarce.
And I don't know about you, but I call that peace.
whatever. As I said in my first post, we still have very little vediric knowledge (literally only one statement) on the subject. Later on, more information could be used to prove or discredit my statements, but based on what we know so far, I don't think it's wrong affirm that the world is currently peaceful in MM, or at least, consider it a viable possibility.

PD: I'm not being pedantic. If you want your statements to be taken as an objective truth, then they have to be backed by facts, not assumptions. If you cannot use a fact (something said by the author, something said by a character that is a reliable source, etc.) to validate your statements, then they are nothing more than beliefs.

 

[BugDemon]

@Reiba1925
You are pedantic, because you pretend that an incident merely 7 years ago does not count as the current time. Then there was a large issue that forced Sakura into a core state just 3 years before that etc. The only thing you can basically retreat to is "Well it does seem to be peaceful RIGHT NOW." which is a fruitless argument and extremely pedantic. Your view is too limited and the timeframe way too miniscule. Every single moment you don't hear of some fight happening it's technically peaceful. A day between two large fights is a peaceful one. It's pointless.
Logical deduction is good enough honestly, but for the likes of you the statements going around have to be even more specific.

You also have zero proof that battles are scarce beyond Momo and Mikan saying that things have calmed down recently. Momo also stated that most Magical Girls she knows are the aggressive type and she called Mikan (a cursed person!) for help, because there was noone better around. Riko fought magical girls on almost a daily basis before Sakura gave her a home and the magical girl from Volume 5 has been fighting demons the last 10 years too. Battles are far more common than you pretend. This town is the absolute exception.

Basically you have nothing on your side except "Nuh-uh" and I have 1 very concrete evidence and some more vague pieces and very obvious deductions. I think we both know which of us has the better foot to stand on. I will stop now, because this won't go anywhere with your attitude.

 

[thofheinz]

@BugDemon -

And one small but meaningful detail: right before translating her core into Shamiko, Sakura says something like "This town shouldn't be threatened by a disaster for a while." For a while.

On top of that, she never says what that particular enemy is, as far as I know. What it is is a "disaster", and despite blessed pauses between battles, the war is ongoing.

*

Where did this series come from, anyway? Funny and sweet and sensitive to struggle and darkness, no plot end untied, character development every which way, an unusual love story... It's amazing.

 

[Evron]

Quite an argument here...

It does remind me that Momo was supposed to be protecting the town. I wonder if her magic as a light clan member is necessary (for example keeping barriers functioning or something) or if acting as sentinel is enough. If it's the former things could get messy. Mikan doesn't quite seem like a stable substitute.

Then again, as Momo had momentarily considered converting before, perhaps the nature of her magic is not that relevant...

 

[agronox]

Now that we've seen Sakura, I noticed on a re-read that she actually pops up way earlier!

Take a look at the top left corner of the very first panel of chapter 5. Nice easter egg.