Mahou Shoujo × Haiboku Saiban - Vol. 3 Ch. 15 - Case 05 Tatemaki Lemon Part 3

[KanzakiYuu]

This manga is insane. This would have the multiwork series tag if it were a hentai.

 

[Drakeon995]

Whats the downside of turning down to becoming a MG?

you will still be raped by a monster neause you can't fight back.

 

[Whoareyou_vl]

This magical girl system should be destroyed, f*ck human, save magical girls

 

[DeadToReal]

Hadn't seen it mentioned, but interesting tidbit -

Shimiki's punishment was three days of absolute servitude. And, her ability appears to be possession - which I presume, allows her to forcibly take over the body and will of the target, and controlling them in their stead for some duration of time.

Which makes her punishment rather ...I guess "poetic", if nothing else.

But more critically to the actual plot, I bet we'll find out this was a joint hit between her and Mii-chan on Lemon. It's pretty suspicious that Lemon ran across a random MG who would have a grudge against her, and end up attacked in the specific suspicious manner that Yuri explained in this chapter.
So assuming Shimiki was there Possessing the lightning dog, then that's two MGs who have a reason to hate Lemon.
I'd bet money they planned it around that dog being there, even.

Even more insidious, Shimiki didn't become a prosecutor until after her defeat/sentencing. What if she did, for the express purpose of trying to take down Lemon?
Not saying this specific plot was in the works for however long, but I'd bet revenge was her motivation all along.

But, it means she's targeting a "fellow ally", purely for selfish reasons (if understandable ones), and even become part of the system that allowed this to happen to her, to do it.

So I wonder if, assuming Lemon gets out of this and Shimiki/possibly Mii-chan are charged with something instead, if it will push Lemon to joining the side of Yuri & Aoi, and if we will actually see a shift toward trying to actually fight the MGJS, starting with reforming Shimiki & Mii-chan instead of continuing the cycle of revenge by punishing them a second time.

Because they're both still victims of this perverted farce of a legal system; and putting them through a second round out of anything resembling vengeance just means the system wins while our MGs run in circles on each other.

So Yuri & Aoi and Lemon would have to fight to keep them from being charged and convicted, if there's any hope (or authorial intent, I guess) of changing the status quo.

Actually, I think her possession ability is not her original ability.

This chapter made a big deal to point out how fearful everyone is of a magical girl going rogue and even siding with monsters. Her possession ability could be some gained from making a deal with a monster, or even secretly being possessed by one. She could have made her deal in exchange for her life when she lost her arm. There's also that cigar that she keeps smoking throughout the case. That could be what she uses to possess people.

Another big clue is the last page mentions "Everything went according to Skikimi's plans" in big font. That is basically admitting that her possession ability is something that is completely unknown to everyone, and that being accused is all part of her plan to discredit the defense.

I do think the whole thing was planned, but I do not think Mii actually knew what was really going to happen. I think that she was just a useful idiot that was used to set the whole thing in motion.

I'm thinking that Lemon will try to continue being a prosecutor, but her experience makes her start doubting the punishments she asks for, more and more, until she finally can't do it anymore. Lemon was already feeling sympathetic towards Mii when she described the suffering that she still has to deal with. I think the sight of Mii breaking down after Lemon is declared "Not Guilty" will have an effect on Lemon for then on.

I also think that Shikimi will be the series first real antagonist. She's smart, vindictive, cocky, and will never let go of a grudge. I wouldn't be surprised if she managed to escape being punished by possessing a guard, and return with a new grudge against Yuuri, for messing up her glorious revenge.

PS, I remember us discussing the reasoning behind the "no defeat" rule in a previous chapter a while back. Looks like we were pretty on the mark with our theories.

 

[UdenEmpati]

Actually, I think her possession ability is not her original ability.

This chapter made a big deal to point out how fearful everyone is of a magical girl going rogue and even siding with monsters. Her possession ability could be some gained from making a deal with a monster, or even secretly being possessed by one. She could have made her deal in exchange for her life when she lost her arm. There's also that cigar that she keeps smoking throughout the case. That could be what she uses to possess people.

Another big clue is the last page mentions "Everything went according to Skikimi's plans" in big font. That is basically admitting that her possession ability is something that is completely unknown to everyone, and that being accused is all part of her plan to discredit the defense.

I do think the whole thing was planned, but I do not think Mii actually knew what was really going to happen. I think that she was just a useful idiot that was used to set the whole thing in motion.

I'm thinking that Lemon will try to continue being a prosecutor, but her experience makes her start doubting the punishments she asks for, more and more, until she finally can't do it anymore. Lemon was already feeling sympathetic towards Mii when she described the suffering that she still has to deal with. I think the sight of Mii breaking down after Lemon is declared "Not Guilty" will have an effect on Lemon for then on.

I also think that Shikimi will be the series first real antagonist. She's smart, vindictive, cocky, and will never let go of a grudge. I wouldn't be surprised if she managed to escape being punished by possessing a guard, and return with a new grudge against Yuuri, for messing up her glorious revenge.

PS, I remember us discussing the reasoning behind the "no defeat" rule in a previous chapter a while back. Looks like we were pretty on the mark with our theories.

That also made me wonder if there's a registry of Magical Girl Powers, and if everyone has theirs "known" by whatever oversight entity exists for MGs within the world.
At present - they seem to largely operate independently, or so it would seem; up until they're defeated and then tried by the court which has an organized system of MGs that run it.
But it seems like Yuuri's ability isn't known; because otherwise I have to imagine people would be more careful about lying around her, especially "under oath" or whatever equivalent they use in-court. We as the readers obviously don't know what each MG has, but if there is some sort of database, then Shikimi's Possession ability being something new, or hidden, or acquired as you stated would make sense. Particularly since Yuuri and Lemon didn't point out what she was doing - and it's an ability with so much abuse potential that her being a prosecutor feels like she'd have to be watched all the time to prevent her tampering with witnesses or defendants outside of court, and whatnot.
So her being compromised in some fashion could be the case. It could also be that she's wholly disillusioned with the Magical Girl System in general, and has officially gone rogue - tying into the theme & sentiment of this chapter that you mentioned. Whether it's in direct allegiance with monsters or not, I guess remains to be seen - I think it's plausible, but that would necessitate some hierarchy to the monsters, with some sort of directing entity or group with intelligence and motive that would benefit from dealing with a Magical Girl in a capacity beyond using them as seed beds to make more monsters.
But if she's not here to break down the system, then she's definitely here to take down Lemon. Thinking on it more (since that initial comment was made right before I fell asleep), I think Mii-chan's just a useful idiot, yeah. Which could also mean she's there to be a patsy for Shikimi should things go sideways in this trial, but now that it seems like Yuuri's fully locked in on Shikimi having somethign to do with Lemon's case, I think the focus will be on the prosecutor instead.

The cigar thing.....I dunno if it's directly related to her ability; could certainly be the case, though I initially figured it was some sort of medicinal/coping mechanism due to what she went through. It having actual magical properties, or potentially being the "fuel" she has to constantly consume in order to use this Possession Power, carries weight.
And, it would make the Possession ability an "artificial skill", which she can only utilize as long as she has the cigars - and that means there's a manufacturer for them, and thus a trail of clues to find whoever Shikimi is (ostensibly) working with or at least connected to.

But I think ultimately that Shikimi is a Rogue Magical Girl, and thus one of the first big tests for Yuuri & Aoi (and Lemon I guess) that exists beyond the Court System, yeah. There's no given precedent for what the Court would do the moment an MG turned on another, or on people in general; we only have the very adamant sentiment that the Court & Punishments are meant to keep MGs in line and show they have allegiance to humanity. But unless there's protocol for what to do in the event of a Rogue MG, then this is new territory, I guess.
And if nothing else could represent a stepping stone away from the formula we've seen of "Yuuri exonorates MGs in Court" to "Yuuri fights the larger systemic issues in the background".

 

[The_H_Guy]

There's no given precedent for what the Court would do the moment an MG turned on another, or on people in general; we only have the very adamant sentiment that the Court & Punishments are meant to keep MGs in line and show they have allegiance to humanity.

As you say this court is specialized in magical girl defeats. And only against monsters and evil minions. They don't do anything else. Not even fights between MGs are under their competence as already clearly stated during Lemon's trial.
So these betrayer magical girls would be very likely sentenced by another court. Or disposed in a different, and probably much quieter way.

 

[runedKnight]

That also made me wonder if there's a registry of Magical Girl Powers, and if everyone has theirs "known" by whatever oversight entity exists for MGs within the world.
At present - they seem to largely operate independently, or so it would seem; up until they're defeated and then tried by the court which has an organized system of MGs that run it.
But it seems like Yuuri's ability isn't known; because otherwise I have to imagine people would be more careful about lying around her, especially "under oath" or whatever equivalent they use in-court. We as the readers obviously don't know what each MG has, but if there is some sort of database, then Shikimi's Possession ability being something new, or hidden, or acquired as you stated would make sense. Particularly since Yuuri and Lemon didn't point out what she was doing - and it's an ability with so much abuse potential that her being a prosecutor feels like she'd have to be watched all the time to prevent her tampering with witnesses or defendants outside of court, and whatnot.
So her being compromised in some fashion could be the case. It could also be that she's wholly disillusioned with the Magical Girl System in general, and has officially gone rogue - tying into the theme & sentiment of this chapter that you mentioned. Whether it's in direct allegiance with monsters or not, I guess remains to be seen - I think it's plausible, but that would necessitate some hierarchy to the monsters, with some sort of directing entity or group with intelligence and motive that would benefit from dealing with a Magical Girl in a capacity beyond using them as seed beds to make more monsters.
But if she's not here to break down the system, then she's definitely here to take down Lemon. Thinking on it more (since that initial comment was made right before I fell asleep), I think Mii-chan's just a useful idiot, yeah. Which could also mean she's there to be a patsy for Shikimi should things go sideways in this trial, but now that it seems like Yuuri's fully locked in on Shikimi having somethign to do with Lemon's case, I think the focus will be on the prosecutor instead.

The cigar thing.....I dunno if it's directly related to her ability; could certainly be the case, though I initially figured it was some sort of medicinal/coping mechanism due to what she went through. It having actual magical properties, or potentially being the "fuel" she has to constantly consume in order to use this Possession Power, carries weight.
And, it would make the Possession ability an "artificial skill", which she can only utilize as long as she has the cigars - and that means there's a manufacturer for them, and thus a trail of clues to find whoever Shikimi is (ostensibly) working with or at least connected to.

But I think ultimately that Shikimi is a Rogue Magical Girl, and thus one of the first big tests for Yuuri & Aoi (and Lemon I guess) that exists beyond the Court System, yeah. There's no given precedent for what the Court would do the moment an MG turned on another, or on people in general; we only have the very adamant sentiment that the Court & Punishments are meant to keep MGs in line and show they have allegiance to humanity. But unless there's protocol for what to do in the event of a Rogue MG, then this is new territory, I guess.
And if nothing else could represent a stepping stone away from the formula we've seen of "Yuuri exonorates MGs in Court" to "Yuuri fights the larger systemic issues in the background".

There is one more big twist coming for this case I feel, and its tied with why I think the choice of punishment was suspect.
Usually all the punishments presented so far carried some sense of irony and were chosen as the ultimate insult for the girl in question. The spry, active and energetic Tooka was to be made to stand still for the rest of her life; Aoi was to fully experience the hardship of being a women through forced pregnancy; Yahiro's true desire in life for familial happiness would be mocked by forced marriage.

For Tatemaki the personality excretion punishment from my point of view is the outlier so far among all the punishments so far. Tatemaki personality is not rotten she is merely naive, stupid and indoctrinated.

So the question is:

Why did a Magical Girl that can take over your body decide on a punishment that can leave your body without a soul or mind that can control it?

pg.2
Aoi: Isn't this too severe?

pg.3
Shikimi: It isn't. << The Truth
Shikimi: If anything this is a punishment with the defendants best interests in mind. << The Lie

What does Shikimi want here?

 

[Monstrengo]

Even with the explanation, this whole thing is messed up. Aoi-kun is right. And she's still the most inspirationally heroic and compassionate magic girl that we have seen so far. Funny, considering she used to be a boy.

 

[UdenEmpati]

There is one more big twist coming for this case I feel, and its tied with why I think the choice of punishment was suspect.
Usually all the punishments presented so far carried some sense of irony and were chosen as the ultimate insult for the girl in question. The spry, active and energetic Tooka was to be made to stand still for the rest of her life; Aoi was to fully experience the hardship of being a women through forced pregnancy; Yahiro's true desire in life for familial happiness would be mocked by forced marriage.

For Tatemaki the personality excretion punishment from my point of view is the outlier so far among all the punishments so far. Tatemaki personality is not rotten she is merely naive, stupid and indoctrinated.

So the question is:

Why did a Magical Girl that can take over your body decide on a punishment that can leave your body without a soul or mind that can control it?

pg.2
Aoi: Isn't this too severe?

pg.3
Shikimi: It isn't. << The Truth
Shikimi: If anything this is a punishment with the defendants best interests in mind. << The Lie

What does Shikimi want here?

If the Possession ability isn't tied to Shikimi specifically (even if its not her innate ability) but one that can be used by anybody (say, if it's related to the cigar she smokes) - then creating an empty flesh puppet out of Lemon and trapping her ego in the magi-jelly could be a means of allowing someone else to Possess her body and act as a Prosecutor in her stead, with the cover-up being that the "punishment" wasn't permanent and that she'd have her ego re-inserted after X amount of time, only instead Lemon's ego is disposed of, and her body is then permanently commandeered for whatever nefarious ends the presumed entity behind Shikimo has planned.
That's my guess, anyway. It assumes a lot of what we've guessed at here to be the truth in terms of the Possession ability, Shikimo's larger motivations/connections, and the extent to which Lemon is an influential figure within the MGJS. But if Shikimo isn't looking for revenge on a purely personal, selfish level, then I think you're right that it necessitates her being in cahoots, either consenting or coerced, with some larger entity that seeks the eventual destruction of the Magical Girls protecting humanity.

The question from there, is whether Dark Harassment is the actual entity behind her, and if so, if they are a front (knowing or otherwise) of some even more insidious and dangerous force. The chapter around Masked Braver makes them look almost comical, though that's also potentially just for show; they both seem incompetent and dangerous, and I can't tell how much of a red herring they'll turn out to be when it comes to the Actual Bad Guys of the setting.
And, if it were truly as easy to turn MGs to their side as Shikimi seemingly proves, who can then go on to defeat other MGs and "get away clean" because of how the MGJS is set up law-wise, then this being the apparent first time such a tactic has been tried, is strange to me. But at that point it's me questioning everything based on established tropes and larger genre conventions and their potential subversions, and it stops really being productive to go around breaking everything apart to cross-examine it.

Ultimately though, after everything discussed here, I think my guess/prediction is that

• Shikimi is compromised, and the Possession ability isn't her innate MG skill
• Shikimi will be exposed by Yuuri as the one Possessing the monster that defeated Lemon
• Lemon will be found not-guilty, because she wasn't defeated by a Monster, but by Shikimi
• Shikimi won't be tried by the MGJS court, because there's no as-yet-revealed established precedent for MG on MG violence
• Shikimi will likely escape, fleeing to whoever gave her the Possession skill, and become a non-monster antagonist for Yuuri & Aoi & Lemon & the MGJS at large
• Yuuri & Aoi will work with Lemon to try and solve the mystery surrounding whoever's behind Shikimi's defection, and Lemon will possibly return to being a Prosecutor, but--potentially--working to the same goals as Yuuri, after a change of heart, from the inside.

I don't think that'll all happen in one chapter, or even as a part of the conclusion of this particular arc, but that's the direction I think we're going. Which is a bit weird given this is a fetish ecchi manga, but I think there's still plenty of opportunities for the author to show off various "tags" still outside a courtroom setting, so I don't think it betrays that aspect of the premise.

 

[JigglyPal]

That also made me wonder if there's a registry of Magical Girl Powers, and if everyone has theirs "known" by whatever oversight entity exists for MGs within the world.

We know this isn't the case 'cos the court didn't know what the Shrine Maiden girl's power was - they assumed she was creating the talismans with her magic, when her actual power was access to extradimensional storage space.

 

[DeadToReal]

That also made me wonder if there's a registry of Magical Girl Powers, and if everyone has theirs "known" by whatever oversight entity exists for MGs within the world.
At present - they seem to largely operate independently, or so it would seem; up until they're defeated and then tried by the court which has an organized system of MGs that run it.
But it seems like Yuuri's ability isn't known; because otherwise I have to imagine people would be more careful about lying around her, especially "under oath" or whatever equivalent they use in-court. We as the readers obviously don't know what each MG has, but if there is some sort of database, then Shikimi's Possession ability being something new, or hidden, or acquired as you stated would make sense. Particularly since Yuuri and Lemon didn't point out what she was doing - and it's an ability with so much abuse potential that her being a prosecutor feels like she'd have to be watched all the time to prevent her tampering with witnesses or defendants outside of court, and whatnot.

It would make sense there would be some kind of registry for magical girl powers. This chapter established how fearful everyone is towards magical girls, so having unknowns running around would be a potential security risk. What if they use their powers for evil means? And if those mascots give powers to girls, then it is reasonable to assume they would also know what powers they actually gave them in the first place.

It would also make sense for everyone's powers to be hidden from public view, for privacy and security reasons. You do not want girls being targeted and blackmailed into using their powers for evil.

So her being compromised in some fashion could be the case. It could also be that she's wholly disillusioned with the Magical Girl System in general, and has officially gone rogue - tying into the theme & sentiment of this chapter that you mentioned. Whether it's in direct allegiance with monsters or not, I guess remains to be seen - I think it's plausible, but that would necessitate some hierarchy to the monsters, with some sort of directing entity or group with intelligence and motive that would benefit from dealing with a Magical Girl in a capacity beyond using them as seed beds to make more monsters.
But if she's not here to break down the system, then she's definitely here to take down Lemon. Thinking on it more (since that initial comment was made right before I fell asleep), I think Mii-chan's just a useful idiot, yeah. Which could also mean she's there to be a patsy for Shikimi should things go sideways in this trial, but now that it seems like Yuuri's fully locked in on Shikimi having somethign to do with Lemon's case, I think the focus will be on the prosecutor instead.

An organization like Dark Harassment checks all these boxes. She could have made a deal with them, in exchange for her life, or for the sake of her revenge.

The cigar thing.....I dunno if it's directly related to her ability; could certainly be the case, though I initially figured it was some sort of medicinal/coping mechanism due to what she went through. It having actual magical properties, or potentially being the "fuel" she has to constantly consume in order to use this Possession Power, carries weight.
And, it would make the Possession ability an "artificial skill", which she can only utilize as long as she has the cigars - and that means there's a manufacturer for them, and thus a trail of clues to find whoever Shikimi is (ostensibly) working with or at least connected to.

The cigar could also be a red herring, in regards to her possession ability. It is entirely possible the cigar is for an entirely different power all together. Shikimi smokes the cigar as an escape plan, in case she fails. We'll know for sure in the next chapter.

If the Possession ability isn't tied to Shikimi specifically (even if its not her innate ability) but one that can be used by anybody (say, if it's related to the cigar she smokes) - then creating an empty flesh puppet out of Lemon and trapping her ego in the magi-jelly could be a means of allowing someone else to Possess her body and act as a Prosecutor in her stead, with the cover-up being that the "punishment" wasn't permanent and that she'd have her ego re-inserted after X amount of time, only instead Lemon's ego is disposed of, and her body is then permanently commandeered for whatever nefarious ends the presumed entity behind Shikimo has planned.
That's my guess, anyway. It assumes a lot of what we've guessed at here to be the truth in terms of the Possession ability, Shikimo's larger motivations/connections, and the extent to which Lemon is an influential figure within the MGJS. But if Shikimo isn't looking for revenge on a purely personal, selfish level, then I think you're right that it necessitates her being in cahoots, either consenting or coerced, with some larger entity that seeks the eventual destruction of the Magical Girls protecting humanity.

Shikimi's body being actually possessed by a monster that is actively trying to undermine the system would be a great twist. The biggest problem with that theory would be her clear obsession and hatred of Lemon. A monster that has nothing to do with what happened to Shikimi wouldn't have a grudge against Lemon. Another issue would be how does the monster even know what Shikimi experienced in the first place. There would need to be a way for the monster to get her memories. Maybe the monster ate the soul that was "pushed" out of her body?

The question from there, is whether Dark Harassment is the actual entity behind her, and if so, if they are a front (knowing or otherwise) of some even more insidious and dangerous force. The chapter around Masked Braver makes them look almost comical, though that's also potentially just for show; they both seem incompetent and dangerous, and I can't tell how much of a red herring they'll turn out to be when it comes to the Actual Bad Guys of the setting.
And, if it were truly as easy to turn MGs to their side as Shikimi seemingly proves, who can then go on to defeat other MGs and "get away clean" because of how the MGJS is set up law-wise, then this being the apparent first time such a tactic has been tried, is strange to me. But at that point it's me questioning everything based on established tropes and larger genre conventions and their potential subversions, and it stops really being productive to go around breaking everything apart to cross-examine it.

It doesn't have to be Dark Harassment. But even if it is Dark Harassment, we've only seen the foot soldiers being comicly incompetent. We have never actually seen the bosses fight anyone. The bosses could actually be powerful enough to defeat a magical girl like Shikimi.

And I wouldn't assume turning a magical girl was never done before. The whole rule about never being defeated, holding the family hostage, and the defeat trial itself could have been a response to rogue magical girls in the past.

I don't think that'll all happen in one chapter, or even as a part of the conclusion of this particular arc, but that's the direction I think we're going. Which is a bit weird given this is a fetish ecchi manga, but I think there's still plenty of opportunities for the author to show off various "tags" still outside a courtroom setting, so I don't think it betrays that aspect of the premise.

I would hope the author is expanding the scope of his story. While the trials and extreme punishments are fund to read, it would get old after a while. There is only so many times you can read the same exact thing before you simply get bored of it. And there are only so many punishments before you simply run out of them, and have to recycle the same ones from before.

 

[DeadToReal]

We know this isn't the case 'cos the court didn't know what the Shrine Maiden girl's power was - they assumed she was creating the talismans with her magic, when her actual power was access to extradimensional storage space.

The registry could have been under a completely different government department or organization the court didn't have direct access to. It is not unheard of for different branches of government to not talk or cooperate with each other. The different military branches competing and actively undermining each other was such a huge problem that the US Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Pentagon was created, to force the different branches to work together. Imperial Japan never had a system for the different military branches to cooperate. The resulting scheming and backstabbing helped hamper their war effort.

 

[DeadToReal]

There is one more big twist coming for this case I feel, and its tied with why I think the choice of punishment was suspect.
Usually all the punishments presented so far carried some sense of irony and were chosen as the ultimate insult for the girl in question. The spry, active and energetic Tooka was to be made to stand still for the rest of her life; Aoi was to fully experience the hardship of being a women through forced pregnancy; Yahiro's true desire in life for familial happiness would be mocked by forced marriage.

For Tatemaki the personality excretion punishment from my point of view is the outlier so far among all the punishments so far. Tatemaki personality is not rotten she is merely naive, stupid and indoctrinated.

So the question is:

Why did a Magical Girl that can take over your body decide on a punishment that can leave your body without a soul or mind that can control it?

pg.2
Aoi: Isn't this too severe?

pg.3
Shikimi: It isn't. << The Truth
Shikimi: If anything this is a punishment with the defendants best interests in mind. << The Lie

What does Shikimi want here?

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised Shikimi has a love/hate thing going on with Lemon. I mean, she did possess a monster specifically to stick it into Lemon and give her an oral she would never forget.

Yuuri's ability is simply to tell truth from lies - not the intention and reasoning behind it. When Shikimi says the punishment isn't too severe, she could really think that in her own twisted way. Shikimi could want Lemon's body to "express her love" with, while Lemon watches helplessly.

 

[UdenEmpati]

Shikimi's body being actually possessed by a monster that is actively trying to undermine the system would be a great twist. The biggest problem with that theory would be her clear obsession and hatred of Lemon. A monster that has nothing to do with what happened to Shikimi wouldn't have a grudge against Lemon. Another issue would be how does the monster even know what Shikimi experienced in the first place. There would need to be a way for the monster to get her memories. Maybe the monster ate the soul that was "pushed" out of her body?

Oh, that wasn't me talking about Shikimi being possessed/replaced with a monster, but my musings over why Shikimi specifically declared that Lemon's punishment would be Personality Extraction.

Since @runedKnight highlighted the part of Shikimi's rationale that was a lie and how it was the first incongruent punishment in not matching the MG's personality, it had me wondering about the peculiarity of the proposal, and how it would fit into Shikimi's revenge, and/or larger goals/schemes.
Replacing Lemon seemed like a reasonable option, in the sense of it allowing the Monsters to "capture the courts" (assuming Shikimi's in league with them, of course).

 

[DeadToReal]

Oh, that wasn't me talking about Shikimi being possessed/replaced with a monster, but my musings over why Shikimi specifically declared that Lemon's punishment would be Personality Extraction.

Since @runedKnight highlighted the part of Shikimi's rationale that was a lie and how it was the first incongruent punishment in not matching the MG's personality, it had me wondering about the peculiarity of the proposal, and how it would fit into Shikimi's revenge, and/or larger goals/schemes.
Replacing Lemon seemed like a reasonable option, in the sense of it allowing the Monsters to "capture the courts" (assuming Shikimi's in league with them, of course).

Oh, my mistake. But I still think that Shikimi secretly being a monster would be a great twist.

And I'm not sure how capturing the courts would make things better for the monsters. The courts are already heavily against the magical girls, in terms of the traumatic punishments they inflict on them, and how almost all of them are considered guilty. The first chapter alone heavily implies that a "Not Guilty" verdict is basically a miracle itself with how virtually unheard of it is. I am not sure how capturing the courts would make things any different from how they already are. It would make more sense to capture the leadership and the majority of the magical girls to sow hatred and fear against the magical girls.

 

[UdenEmpati]

Oh, my mistake. But I still think that Shikimi secretly being a monster would be a great twist.

And I'm not sure how capturing the courts would make things better for the monsters. The courts are already heavily against the magical girls, in terms of the traumatic punishments they inflict on them, and how almost all of them are considered guilty. The first chapter alone heavily implies that a "Not Guilty" verdict is basically a miracle itself with how virtually unheard of it is. I am not sure how capturing the courts would make things any different from how they already are. It would make more sense to capture the leadership and the majority of the magical girls to sow hatred and fear against the magical girls.

Mostly that the courts could be used to trump up charges against Magical Girls, even if they haven't been technically defeated.
But, that's just me thinking off the top of my head, as to why Shikimi sought that specific punishment for Lemon. It assumes that Lemon is someone of standing and/or influence within the larger system, or possibly has regular contact/access to either lots of Magical Girls, or has access to official/sensitive MG documents and the like.
So turning Lemon into a puppet would provide a potentially powerful mole for Dark Harassment/the monster side of this ongoing conflict, at least within the district/region that this story is centered within.

But, ultimately, it depends on what Shikimi's actual motives & goals are here.

 

[DeadToReal]

Mostly that the courts could be used to trump up charges against Magical Girls, even if they haven't been technically defeated.
But, that's just me thinking off the top of my head, as to why Shikimi sought that specific punishment for Lemon. It assumes that Lemon is someone of standing and/or influence within the larger system, or possibly has regular contact/access to either lots of Magical Girls, or has access to official/sensitive MG documents and the like.
So turning Lemon into a puppet would provide a potentially powerful mole for Dark Harassment/the monster side of this ongoing conflict, at least within the district/region that this story is centered within.

But, ultimately, it depends on what Shikimi's actual motives & goals are here.

But wouldn't it be up to the District Attorney to file charges against the magical girls? I thought the courts were only there to find them guilty and decide on the punishment. If filing fake charges to get rid of magical girls were the main goal, wouldn't taking over the District Attorney and the chevaliers (state-sanctioned magical girls that act when other magical girls are defeated) be the better move?

Lemon seems too naive to be someone with a lot of influence. Lemon could be the daughter of someone influential, but based on what we know so far, Shikimi has more access/influence than anyone in the court. She's a former chevalier who is now a prosecutor. Shikimi has had ample opportunity to mingle and potentially take over many people in key positions throughout her career. Other than the potential influence of her parents, I do not think there is any information that Lemon has that Shikimi also does not already know.

And Dark Harassment seems to be currently obsessed with taking down Yahiro and making her the bride of their leader.

The only way I can see your theory being plausible (other than Lemon's parents being influential) would be if the main goal were to take over Yuuri herself. Yuuri is the younger sister of the current #1 magical girl. Using Yuuri to take over her sister would be a reasonable plan, but I do not think this is the case here. It would seem that no one currently knows that Yuuri is the younger sister of the #1 magical girl, so why would Yuuri be targeted in the first place?

Edit: Replaced Prosecutors with District Attorney.

 

[runedKnight]

Mostly that the courts could be used to trump up charges against Magical Girls, even if they haven't been technically defeated.
But, that's just me thinking off the top of my head, as to why Shikimi sought that specific punishment for Lemon. It assumes that Lemon is someone of standing and/or influence within the larger system, or possibly has regular contact/access to either lots of Magical Girls, or has access to official/sensitive MG documents and the like.
So turning Lemon into a puppet would provide a potentially powerful mole for Dark Harassment/the monster side of this ongoing conflict, at least within the district/region that this story is centered within.

But, ultimately, it depends on what Shikimi's actual motives & goals are here.

But wouldn't it be up to the prosecutor to file charges against the magical girls? I thought the courts were only there to find them guilty and decide on the punishment. If filing fake charges to get rid of magical girls were the main goal, wouldn't taking over the prosecutors and the chevaliers (state-sanctioned magical girls that act when other magical girls are defeated) be the better move?

Lemon seems too naive to be someone with a lot of influence. Lemon could be the daughter of someone influential, but based on what we know so far, Shikimi has more access/influence than anyone in the court. She's a former chevalier who is now a prosecutor. Shikimi has had ample opportunity to mingle and potentially take over many people in key positions throughout her career. Other than the potential influence of her parents, I do not think there is any information that Lemon has that Shikimi also does not already know.

And Dark Harassment seems to be currently obsessed with taking down Yahiro and making her the bride of their leader.

The only way I can see your theory being plausible (other than Lemon's parents being influential) would be if the main goal were to take over Yuuri herself. Yuuri is the younger sister of the current #1 magical girl. Using Yuuri to take over her sister would be a reasonable plan, but I do not think this is the case here. It would seem that no one currently knows that Yuuri is the younger sister of the #1 magical girl, so why would Yuuri be targeted in the first place?

Thinking about the Shikimi's motivations it could very well be that revenge is her goal, but that lie she made in regards to the punishment being chosen with Lemon in mind put's that theory in a bind.
The punishment is the point so why that punishment exactly?

My guess is that Shikimi or her sponsor wants Tatemaki's magical ability since it is in essence a hard counter to all magical girls through the act of extortion.

When you mentioned the idea of someone getting to Masago Makura through the relatively defenseless Masago Yuuri, by using Tatemaki's Ability they would be able to control the strongest magical girl.

So the question then would be what do they need exactly from Tatemaki, the body or her soul?

 

[CharAznable]

I may be into some weird shit but this is going places I usually close out of.

 

[DeadToReal]

Thinking about the Shikimi's motivations it could very well be that revenge is her goal, but that lie she made in regards to the punishment being chosen with Lemon in mind put's that theory in a bind.
The punishment is the point so why that punishment exactly?

My guess is that Shikimi or her sponsor wants Tatemaki's magical ability since it is in essence a hard counter to all magical girls through the act of extortion.

When you mentioned the idea of someone getting to Masago Makura through the relatively defenseless Masago Yuuri, by using Tatemaki's Ability they would be able to control the strongest magical girl.

So the question then would be what do they need exactly from Tatemaki, the body or her soul?

I forgot that Lemon's ability forces people to keep their promises. In that case, your theory would make a lot of sense. But there still lies the question of how anyone even knows about her ability in the first place? Yes, Lemon told Mii about her ability when she attacked her, but the plan was already in motion before Mii tried to attack Lemon in the first place.

And the lie was the punishment was in "the defendant's best interest in mind". That does not discount revenge being the motivation. As I theorized before, Shikimi's intention in regards to the punishment could be to use her body to do all sorts of perverted things to it. Taking over Lemon's body is something that we both seem to agree with. What we differ on is what Shikimi plans on doing with Lemon's body, after.

You theorize that it is to use her ability to control others. It is a good theory that I never thought of. But am leaning towards something perverted being the main goal. Pretty much everything in this manga is straight up hentai without the graphic sex scenes. Using Lemon's body as a sex toy would be in line with what we've seen already.

I think the real question we should be asking is how serious and dark the author is willing to take story. If it is in line with the perverted silliness we have seen so far, then it shouldn't have anything that deep. But if the author is willing to go down the rabbit hole of actually including something serious, like a deconstruction, then taking over and enslaving everyone would be a really dark way to go. We will have to wait until the next chapter find out the direction of the story, going forward.