Manuke na FPS Player ga Isekai e Ochita Baai - Vol. 3 Ch. 14.1

[SirArez]

How to ruin a date 101

 

[yohane]

he's using the "i'm depressed, i need a woman to comfort me" card

 

[StealthAria]

People blaming him for bringing up death on a date when she's the one that actually touched on the topic. She steered the conversation towards what happened when his party ran out of food, she stepped on a metaphorical landmine. What else could he have done? Lied to her? Changed the topic even if she seemed to be quite interested in it? You do realize that either of those could hurt her even more further down the line, right?

 

[silverden]

@welcome2atlantis it was when he went up north for the harpy subjegation mission. turns out it was a much deadly variant species and a pseudo legendary monster.

 

[Arvadiel]

@StealthAria I agree.

 

[trilling]

YOU ACTIVATED MY PTSD TRAP.

But serriously, that guy is scarred and people get shit scared for life for less.

 

[introvertchild]

Marc is such a bro.

 

[exogriz]

broken man indeed

 

[ciurrb]

While I hate when guys tell their traumatic experiences on a first dates, Shwartz ain't at fault at all; I mean, the conversation flowed that way and wounds are fresh, it's hard to expect him to answer in a light-hearted manner.

 

[Qelix]

@StealthAria: "[...]Changed the topic even if she seemed to be quite interested in it?[...]"

Actually, yes. Exactly that. ? Because it might hurt the light-hearted diner. He doesn't even need to be careful about changing it to abrupt. This way he let's her know she touched a sensitive matter...
Wait, I wanted to post a rewriten dialog and therefore I've reread that part: It was him that mentioned the party first! He led her on that landmine....So all the people blaming him were right anyways.
Well, back on the matter, what if she would have brought it up:

Ashley: "Did your party ever ran out of food. A parties survival instinct kicks in then."
Schwarz: *stern face* (not a threatening one)"That never happened." *melancholic face* _"Whatever." *gentle smile* "Tell me about your home town."

....aso. I don't believe her feelings would have been hurt. A successful date is both parties wish, and a lady should be as much concerned about her diner partners mood, when such situations come up, as the gentleman she is dining with. Also true for dates between ladies and between gentlemen.

 

[StealthAria]

@Qelix She was digging for the story, wanting to know how his party managed afterwards, he had only brought the party up in confirmation of good meals being important. Even if he tried changing the topic, she might remain curious about it and try looking into it on her own. Which do you think is worse for your romantic interest, "souring" the mood of a date with a topic you both should be familiar with because of your occupation and salvaging the mood together, or letting her find out on her own that she touched on a recent incident that you might have avoided because it was actually a devastating trauma?
Changing the topic is an option when the topic is embarrassing or just not something to discuss in that situation, but not if it's something serious that'll sour the mood, if it's something that you can talk about, you should. Better they hear it from you without them forcing your hand than let them remain curious and think they just poked at an open wound. And NEVER lie about it, even if it's to avoid hurting her; the more serious the matter, the bigger the blow to the relationship it is when she finds out, and she WILL find out.

 

[Qelix]

@StealthAria:
I consider souring the mood a bit (and recovering from it, by making her forget about it) as the lesser evil, than weighting the whole diner with the deaths of people you knew.

[...]Even if he tried changing the topic, she might remain curious about it and try looking into it on her own.[...]

He didn't even try that, even if she only might have done that. And if she did, that would have just lead back to the situation in the beginning. In that case he still could have gone with the not so smooth "I'm sorry, but that isn't a light hearted topic, we are about to touch. Maybe it's for another time." That doesn't really dodge that bullet, as it's just a tad milder than telling her about that people of his former party died itself. In that case, if she really would have insisted, he could also have told her about it and I wouldn't mind. What I mind is, he brought it up right away. (Looks like he actually wanted to talk about it with somebody. But >at least I< think it still isn't the right topic for a first date.)

[...], if it's something that you can talk about, you should.[...]

He certainly can take about it (He doesn't need to feel ashamed of the topic and he is in a psychological condition, in which he is ready to talk about it.), but should he? As a stress relieve, it's alright. As a topic on a seriously meant date, not so much.

And NEVER lie about it, even if it's to avoid hurting her; the more serious the matter, the bigger the blow to the relationship it is when she finds out, and she WILL find out.

This is really valid reasoning and could lead to a serious blunder. 'Ah, he/she isn't trusting me at all.', but it all depends, if the other party recognises it as an attempt to lie to them or not. Take my former example:

Ashley: "Did your party ever ran out of food. A parties survival instinct kicks in then."
Schwarz: *stern face* (not a threatening one)"That never happened." *melancholic face* "Whatever." *gentle smile* "Tell me about your home town."

"That never happened." is a blunt lie, but the way it is delivered implies, something is up with that. The possibilities to interpret that, are seriously limited. Was he offended? Did he lie, to change the topic for example? The point is, the other party is well aware, that there is more to it.
When does a lie begin, and where does it end? Somebody, who only state true facts, but intentionally fails to tell certain others, to create a false impression of the matter at hand, is lying. Someone asked a question and that person reacts nervous, embarrassed and doesn't seek eye contact in an over-the-top manner, so it IS an intentional behaviour, and then tells a lie ("O-Of coooourse I took out the trash!"), made sure everyone got, that he/she is telling a lie, and therefore isn't really lying.
As long as it is a honest mend communication device and the other party knows that, it's fair an square in me book.

That all only reflects me position on the matter, and shouldn't be an attempt to claim that everyone thinks (or should think) the same way I do.

EDIT: Ohboy! Wall of text again. I'm sorry. I'll try to keep those to a minimum in the future.
EDIT2: This discussion is fun! ?

 

[TokenOtaku]

That's one way to spoil the food.

 

[StealthAria]

@Qelix So, you're trying to say that as long as the lie is obvious, it is fine to lie? Any pray tell, when you're talking with someone you only met recently and know almost nothing about, how do you know that they aren't actually trying to deceive you but have a tell (or tic, however you want to call it) when they lie? And if you're the one telling the lie, what makes you so sure the other party will notice you're only lying to be "polite"?

And before you go saying he should have dodged the topic, look back over page 15 and tell me how much room he had to dodge it. And then look at the next page and tell me he was properly in his right mind after her question.

I will reiterate: they are in a world where death is a fact of life, even more than it is in ours, and they are both in a line of work where death is commonplace. She likely frequently hears about parties that went out and got wiped out or turned into seedbeds.

 

[Qelix]

Wai..What? When? 29 days ago... ? Eeehhh.... I try to remember my POV on this one.

So, you're trying to say that as long as the lie is obvious, it is fine to lie?[...]And if you're the one telling the lie, what makes you so sure the other party will notice you're only lying to be "polite"?

Yes, if the lie is obvious (and I mean the "liar" really went some lengths to make sure it is), then it might be a lie in a logical sense, but it isn't in a moral nor in a interpersonal sense. The purpose of a serious lie (from a moral POV) is to deceive and if you take that away, it ceases to be one (again from a moral POV). It's open for interpenetration...interpretation (damn AC ?) what it becomes, but there are social norms and speech patterns. One of those is, if you asked a question and your dialogue partner reacts suspicious (e.g. awkward) and tells a obvious lie or reacts in a over the top manner, so that you know her/his answer was a lie, then chances are you stumbled over a topic you should avoid / she/he doesn't want to answer. It's a bit more polite, than "No comment."
And those social norms and figures of speech are a way to make sure, that even persons, I am unfamiliar with, get, what I wanted to communicate.

[...]Any pray tell, when you're talking with someone you only met recently and know almost nothing about, how do you know that they aren't actually trying to deceive you but have a tell (or tic, however you want to call it) when they lie?[...]

I could, but there is no way for me to prove here, that my story is true. XP Also, If I'm the one such a rhetorical lie has been told to, I'm at the mercy of the person, who told it and hopefully did that in a right way.

And before you go saying he should have dodged the topic, look back over page 15 and tell me how much room he had to dodge it. And then look at the next page and tell me he was properly in his right mind after her question.

As I already mentioned (post), he made the mistake to bring that topic up himself. Yet I stay at my point, he should have dodged it. He didn't have much room, but he should have tried with what room he had -> Obvious lie/hurt face tactic/I don't wanna talk about it tactic. ?
As this looked like a date, this topic bared the risk of being too heavy for it and to ruin the mood. And it kinda did, as it went into a "counselor consoling a client" direction instead of a "that guy is quite charming and I like spending time OFF my work with him". Well, it will work out as this is a manga, but this was a good chance to interact with her outside her job and he blew it. "Right in mind" or not, he bombed it. (In real life there is the danger, that she just sees him as a nice client, she only has a professional and friendly relationship with and woulöd have no qualms about looking for other marriage partners. And she might even find one in the meantime!)

I will reiterate: they are in a world where death is a fact of life, even more than it is in ours, and they are both in a line of work where death is commonplace. She likely frequently hears about parties that went out and got wiped out or turned into seedbeds.

We both do.? --> I just can't commend bringing up that topic on a date.

I believe we shouldn't stress ourselves too much about this. His handling of the date was poor in my book, but his character and way to behave wasn't off and the author did a good job of portraying him as such character in a realistic way. (It's not unbelievable at all.)

 

[botodopo]

he still has his goofy glasses on lol

 

[Nyantardo]

PTSD time

 

[Goretantath]

@StealthAria & @Qelix The way to deal with her asking about the expedition is to reply "Oh, its too long of a story for now, i want to get to know you more. I can explain it after the date if you'd like?" or something along those lines. Try and postpone it but reassure her that you WILL tell her it later.

 

[immortalartisan]

Marc the wingman we need to get in time person of the year for this top tier wing manning

 

[chekage]

Let’s get a round of applause for mister Casanova over here...great job bringing up your trauma on the first date