Maou-jou de Oyasumi - Vol. 16 Ch. 208 - The Sea is Stormy at the River

[nutman451]

@trieuvuhoang
Hmm I suppose, There is a reason people also like Denise the Menace. Not much i can argue with that doesn't end with "your reason for liking this bad, and here's why" so I'll concede to your right to an oppinion.

Appreciate the reply and it adds some prespective for me. Thank you.

 

[ryouhira]

@Lynkaster The Hero A-something-kun is the only being that able to hurt Suya(If you exclude instant/1-hit kill like thunder dragon, poisonus plant, etc).
you better remember him.

 

[JWChibi]

The nudist looks better in clothes and the prince's outing shirt is a beardevil 😍

 

[jonsmth]

@nutman451

But now she has evolved to be a hyper-competent-but-lazy super-woman who understands others hidden desires by just watching or listening to them and comes up with plans that make her seem incompetent but actually perfectly achieves what they want (and in some cases, more) while also gaining personal (albeit short-term) benefits.

More often than not, she's just a catalyst rather than playing the main active part. If she has a hand in it, it doesn't really always go as planned, but all is well that ends well. If it did go as planned, she will eventually overdo it or reverse any progress as she works towards her own agendas. Most of the time, you can trace the cause of an incident to something she has done. For the most part, the demons are just really kind, so Suya doesn't actually have to do much as they can solve their interpersonal problems themselves if you just force them to be together in the same room. I might have misremembered some things, so feel free to bring up any counter-examples.

In this chapter, Twilight-kun already was planning to bond with Nudist; Suya didn't really need to do anything at all. Whatever she did was consistent with her character, and I don't think she was thinking that far ahead in easing up the tension between the two (nor did she really care in the first place).

Notice how there is no character that resents the princess for the entirety of the series

Just a nitpick, but if you consider the ghost sheets as characters, then they are an exception that they hate Suya and are always trying to kill her. At first, they were just resources for Suya but now that she has too much high quality cloth, they're just pests to her now.

 

[nutman451]

@jonsmth

More often than not, she's just a catalyst rather than playing the main active part.

Yes, there are times when the princess's purpose for the chapter (other than making it hilarious and annoying the demons around her) is to speed up or push the demon to the ideal resolution. (though I'm not sure I agree if it's most frequent or not)

Upon re-reading this chapter, I just noticed and do agree she literally didn't have to do anything for Poseidon's problem to resolve itself. Though I could argue if Suya didn't come then Poseidon would either try to force someone else to be the third wheel who could never give the two of them any time alone or more likely flake on the Twilight because he's not confident he could control himself if it's just the two of them, but that's all speculation and not exactly a strong arguments. Another way of seeing it is she knew what was going to happen so all she had to do was break the ice between the two of them with her usual antics (though I can't help but feel they're more tame than usual), then leave them alone, sit back and watch the problem resolve itself.

My point of contention is that her skills are too amazing (arguably mary-sue levels of amazing) that it trivializes any problems she meets to the point that you couldn't expect any negative outcomes from her shenanigans while also comes across as unbelievable. An examples are the previous chapter and this chapter, she seemed to understand the Nudist's underlying problem, she perfectly predicted that whatever Twilight will do, will resolve that underlying problem, and she knows the proper actions to achieve it (leaving them alone and don't get in their way), every time she does something the only thing I think of is "I wonder how this is going to help the two of them".

This also happens when she advised Flame Daruma and Sandy dragon on how to please Lady Zetsuran (finally looked up her name) and then took the correct action of stalling the fleeing dragon chief and got a hideout out o fit.

Before that, she went to Hades for a massage then deducted from his surroundings that he really wants to spend time with Zeus but is too tsun to do so, which is very perceptive and out of character for an "uncaring" Suya (Funnily enough I think her caring IS in line with her character development but I find her able to find the correct actin to fulfill Hades' desire so fast is too overcompetent, would be nice if another chapter is dedicated with her finding ways to set up a date between best older brother and best little brother, screw you nudist no one likes you ).

And in another previous chapter, Suya not only noticed Zetsuran's presence in Sandy's quarters (though she was badly hidden) she also somehow knows Sandy's past with Zetsuran and noticed his buried feelings for her. She then starts asking questions about Zetsuran in a way that forces him to face those feelings directly (though not resolve it... yet) and in the end Zetsuran looks positively at Sandy, Sandy's feelings for Zetsuran is reignited (which may or may not be a good thing), and Suya gets more Sand bath time (though it is disputed whether she truly benefits in this chapter or not). The last one certainly is uncharacteristic of an "uncaring" Suya and shows she has (too much) amazing perception and inter-personal relationship skills to know what to say to get the intended results.

Now the Time-travel arc is an interesting one in that it serves to both counter and strengthen my argument, but this reply is already bloody long enough, so I'll hide it under a spoiler

Spoiler

This arc is the most recent showcase of how Princess' antics has negatively effected everyone, when she realized her actions has changed everyone for the worse, she quickly and relentlessly try to find the source of the problem and fix it immediately. All of this is good, exactly what I want. But then she looked like she wasn't taking it seriously doing what looks like her usual antics, but then by stealing Twilight's Ohagi, She quickly deduced that Twilight is the source of the change through her own reasoning (reasoning from information that we were never given iirc, though admittedly the explanation makes sense). She tried toying with little Twilight to better understand the problem, but when that didn't work she just went in with the direct approach, which actually does work (she looked like she knew this would work better). After twilight spilled the beans on why he was feeling down, Suya freaked out to the point of almost doing the (assumed) wrong thing, but luckily bird-boy managed to reel her back in before she does any irreparable damage (again, good stuff). After a short group huddle, the two execute a plan (It's not revealed if Suya or Birb-bro came up with the plan), But it was not enough so the princess took the initiative and said the correct words backed with genuine emotions that finally convinced young Twilight and resolves his issue (I know My criticism applies here, but I just love this part so much that I hesitate to give it a demerit).

As you can see my criticism doesn't exactly stick to every chapter/arc, but I also hope you understand why I want to hold these criticism. I love it when Suya's flaws actually gets in the way of her achieving the things she wants, and has to overcome or resolve her problems either by herself or with the help of others. And I dislike it when she could easily resolve things because you just can't get invested when the reward or outcome is achieved so easily or effortlessly. Don't get me wrong, not every problem needs to be a struggle, but at least tone down her amazing abilities so that we can appreciate her efforts to help her friends.

Also re-analyzing this arc really helps me realize that this arc is REALLY good, one of the best in fact. So even if you're not convinced, thanks for giving me the opportunity to find something really cool and wholesome.

Just a nitpick, but if you consider the ghost sheets as characters, then they are an exception that they hate Suya and are always trying to kill her. At first, they were just resources for Suya but now that she has too much high quality cloth, they're just pests to her now.

That is true, but I can't take the Furoshiki as a counter argument simply because they have been basically reduced to props. They do have some character in the early chapters, but have such a reduced presence (in term of character and importance) that I forgot about them EVEN THOUGH ONE OF THEM APPEARED IN THE PREVIOUS CHAPTER ( I'm not sure if that is a good counter-argument). Maybe I should have worded it as prominent character? Anyways, even though the Furoshiki hate Suya, their ire don't negatively effect the Princess' standing among the demons nor is it framed as something that the princess should fix (hell any consequences of the furoshiki dying is negated by revival). I can discuss this further if you want and I'm open to have my opinion on this changed because this is starting to look like a personal problem than an objective one.

 

[jonsmth]

@nutman451

she seemed to understand the Nudist's underlying problem...

Suya did say, "I feel like I've heard this before". She actually seemed uninterested throughout the whole thing and really was just there to listen while Nudist helps her with her automated ghost sheet killer. all 3 brothers have intimacy issues, so it wasn't hard to figure out.

counter-examples

Zetsuran is Suya's friend, so she's a little bit more motivated to please her. Well of course, Suya was also waiting for the tent to be done, so why be anywhere else?
Hades made it painfully obvious that he wants to get intimate with Zeus. Initially, Suya just wanted to reevaluate his personality and thought to look around the room.

And in another previous chapter, Suya not only noticed Zetsuran's presence in Sandy's quarters (though she was badly hidden) she also somehow knows Sandy's past with Zetsuran and noticed his buried feelings for her. She then starts asking questions about Zetsuran

I think you might be overestimating Suya on this one. You could also interpret it that Suya just wanted to know more about Zetsuran or talk about her. Suya lead with "Do you like your lady?", where if SandDra answered, "no", then Suya would just drop the subject as the topic wouldn't lead to anything pleasant. Whether Suya noticed the hidden Zetsuran or not is not clear. Her being badly hidden is probably just for the readers to see. There was no panel where Suya is looking at Zetsuran.

(time travel arc) ...But it was not enough so the princess took the initiative and said the correct words backed with genuine emotions that finally convinced young Twilight and resolves his issue

Suya is a little bit closer to Twilight and Leo and knows them well enough, so this one is more likely to come straight out of her heart than be something calculated. It helped that Suya already had the ohagi in hand and she still has the image of his back while he was happily making ohagi.

 

[nutman451]

@jonsmth
I can't quite capture what Suya is like to you. From your replies, I got a picture that she's someone who's selfish and uncaring who's only interested in how she benefits herself. I feel like we're having a tale of two Suyas.

I view her as a selfish and lazy young lady who has amazing (to the point that I think it's to the series' detriment) skills when she puts her mind to it and has grown to love the demons as her friend. Meanwhile you view her as a selfish and lazy young lady who doesn't care about the people around her though she does have a small interest for her a small group she calls her friends (feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken).

I can't help but think that the Suya is your mind is incomplete (I'll elaborate on this later). And I'm sure you consider the way I view Suya is too exaggerated.

Suya did say, "I feel like I've heard this before". She actually seemed uninterested throughout the whole thing and really was just there to listen while Nudist helps her with her automated ghost sheet killer.

Yea, another detail I just noticed in this chapter is that Suya thinks that Nudist's problem is the same as Hades, I guess that's why Suya keeps teling Nudist to get intimate with Twilight.

But she still shown some interest towards Nudist and his woes. If she was truly uninterested, she could have flat out rejected him instead of saying she can't because she was working on something (You could say it's her being nice, but why would she be interested in being nice with nudist at that point?), later on she does get offered a helping and could be seen as her being selfish, but continuing with being uninterested, she wouldn't listen to anything he said, either telling him to shut it, talk about something else, ignore him, or the classic "mhmm" response. Instead she first tried calling for Twilight, which can be interpreted as "She wants Nudist and Twilight to make up as soon as possible" if judged by the previous panel or "She doesn't believe that Nudist would do a very good job, so she wants a better pair of hands" if judged by the following panel. She also continues telling him what she thinks is the solution to his problem and despite his continuous denials. And at the end she noticed that Nudist looked troubled and that he had helped her so she should express the same kind of gratitude she did like his older brother.

Zetsuran is Suya's friend, so she's a little bit more motivated to please her. Well of course, Suya was also waiting for the tent to be done, so why be anywhere else?

I meant that Suya advised Sandy and Flame-oji to build a fort from her childhood but in hindsight could be I misunderstood as them asking for advice on designing and what materials to be used (she did designed her own window that one time). Aside from that, I suppose she'd be waiting for the room to be finished as well.

Hades made it painfully obvious that he wants to get intimate with Zeus. Initially, Suya just wanted to reevaluate his personality and thought to look around the room.

re-reading the chapter, yes it was very obvious. I'm an idiot.

I think you might be overestimating Suya on this one. You could also interpret it that Suya just wanted to know more about Zetsuran or talk about her.

I'm going to stand my ground on this one (though doesn't help my case that Suya looks very sleepy), what leads me to my arguments starts at page 6 (the panel where she stares at Sandy) which led me to believe Suya knows what's up. Anyways if she did want to talk about Zetsuran or know about her, She would start with "Can I ask something about your Lady?" or "I want to know more about your lady", It's kinda weird to start with "Do you like your lady?".

I'm not sure either if Suya did see Zetsuran after reevaluating Suya's involvement on the renovation. At first I thought when Aji and Sandy stopped hiding their lady from the princess and consulted on how to build her personal room (hence why both of them didn't react when Zetsuran was found out) but if she didn't knew that would explain her shocked expression upon seeing Zetsuran in that chapter, but then it proves she's a quick and decisive thinker and connected the dots upon seeing her. I could imagine her train of thought go like this.
Zetsuran is here -> Flame-daruma and Sandy asked for help renovating Sandy's room-> Renovation is for Zetsuran -> Zetsuran looks like she wants to leave -> If Zetsuran leaves Sandy and Flame-daruma will be sad -> (optional) I don't get to sleep in the secret base.

However if she did know Zetsuran was in there, she'd still sleep in the sand bath while waiting for the renovation to finish.

Suya is a little bit closer to Twilight and Leo and knows them well enough, so this one is more likely to come straight out of her heart than be something calculated. It helped that Suya already had the ohagi in hand and she still has the image of his back while he was happily making ohagi.

I didn't mean what she said was completely calculated and without her true feelings towards Twilight and Demonk. What I mean by genuine emotions is her true feelings towards Twilight and Leo. However I think what she said isn't just 100% emotions, but also a carefully thought out retort. When Twilight said "No matter how much demon monk forgive me for relying on others It doesn't change the fact that I trouble them, Hence I believe is a chance for me to be independent" She retorts with " No! I have never seen someone make ohagi so happily before. I'm sure he'll still be making them even a decade from now, you're not the only one who loves him." Which assures Twilight that Demon Monk made those ohagi not despite him relying on others but happily made them because he relies on others such as Demon Monk and also assures Twilight that what she said isn't sweet nothings because she has also (implied) experienced receiving Demon Monk's love and want to return that love. She didn't stutter, she didn't hesitate, and I'm damned sure she didn't leave out any of her true feelings towards them.

Now on why I can't grasp how you view Suya, from what I understand. You view Suya as (aside from her negative traits) someone who has no interest on other demons other than Twilight, Leo, and Zetsuran. Which I don't agree with at all (if we're considering the current Suya), She has grown content with her new life in demon king castle. Happily getting along with the demons there, of course she still causes mischief but she tries not to cause any harm (and any harm that does happen, she immediately tries to fix it) and she certainly tries to help other demons that helped her.

I suppose I also have to reevaluate he, It's wrong for me to paint her as a saint but more of someone who likes demon king castle it's inhabitants.

 

[Shitposter42]

It's not that deep fam

 

[jonsmth]

@nutman451

I view her as a selfish and lazy young lady who has amazing (to the point that I think it's to the series' detriment) skills when she puts her mind to it and has grown to love the demons as her friend. Meanwhile you view her as a selfish and lazy young lady who doesn't care about the people around her though she does have a small interest for her a small group she calls her friends.

I don't think those two descriptions are in conflict. She does put effort for the demons she cares about. Like besides brushing the Forehead Devils, she actually went to rescue Twilight with the only other possible agenda is that she doesn't want the status quo to break (the Demon King castle would collapse).

But she still shown some interest towards Nudist and his woes. If she was truly uninterested, she could have flat out rejected him instead of saying she can't because she was working on something

Nudist was insistent on Suya's involvement. Suya did say she would be busy. Nudist offered help in exchange for her joining the fishing trip. Why refuse help? And it's just a fishing trip. If she finishes in a day, then she'll get her furoshiki-free sleep earlier too.

She would start with "Can I ask something about your Lady?" or "I want to know more about your lady", It's kinda weird to start with "Do you like your lady?".

"Do you like cats? Aren't they just the most elegant? Or maybe they're the cute type?" It was a bit of just a pleasant chit chat. It was nothing formal, nothing seriously interrogative. Suya wasn't asking for information - she just wants to talk about Zetsuran.

and also assures Twilight that what she said isn't sweet nothings because she has also (implied) experienced receiving Demon Monk's love and want to return that love.

I think this one might have been a translation error. The actual meaning was disputed in the comments, but I think the most likely meaining is that Suya is saying that Leo also likes Twilight. This Suya is a nobody in that time in the past, so whatever she may imply about herself is irrelevant and would go over anyone's head.

 

[nutman451]

@jonsmth

Nudist was insistent on Suya's involvement. Suya did say she would be busy. Nudist offered help in exchange for her joining the fishing trip. Why refuse help?

yes, I don't dispute that but in my previous reply. If she was really uninterested in Nudist, she wouldn't respond to whatever he was saying. Either only responding with "mhmm/yea/okay" or telling him to shut it.

"Do you like cats? Aren't they just the most elegant? Or maybe they're the cute type?" It was a bit of just a pleasant chit chat. It was nothing formal, nothing seriously interrogative. Suya wasn't asking for information - she just wants to talk about Zetsuran.

Feels out of nowhere for her to suddenly talk about Zetsuran with Sandy (yes I know that chapter was right after the previous one and Sandy did get involved with Zetsuran's scheme). I mean she could have quietly gone to sleep, but instead she "ascended" and asked/talked about Zetsuran.

and also assures Twilight that what she said isn't sweet nothings because she has also (implied) experienced receiving Demon Monk's love and want to return that love.

Yea, I thought so. the I forced my interpretation on the last part of her reply, but I think my point still stands.

@Shitposter42
It's as deep as you want it to be.

Spoiler

Though not as deep as I got with your mom, WOOOOOOOOOH

 

[jonsmth]

@nutman451

If she was really uninterested in Nudist, she wouldn't respond to whatever he was saying. Either only responding with "mhmm/yea/okay" or telling him to shut it.

Just because she was uninterested doesn't mean she has to act like she isn't. It already shows on her face, and she's doing the bare minimum of "listening" in exchange for Nudist's help. Well, I could relate to that being the listener to someone talking about something for the 10th time, but wouldn't want to let the other person down so I respond according to what they say.

Feels out of nowhere for her to suddenly talk about Zetsuran with Sandy

It's not out of character for Suya to pop out of nowhere too. However, it's not like there's no precedent - she just made a new friend. She was already lying down there. Sandora is just there, staring at her. Nothing really is stopping her from engaging in a little small talk.

Yea, I thought so. the I forced my interpretation on the last part of her reply, but I think my point still stands.

It's hard to say that it was well-thought out. There was no preparation for it. Twilight-kun's anxiety probably just rubbed her the wrong way, and the words just spilled out. As I've mentioned, it helps that the ohagi was there to remind her of Leo-kun's back. And of course, she's already seen Leo-kun in the future.

 

[nutman451]

@jonsmth

It already shows on her face, and she's doing the bare minimum of "listening" in exchange for Nudist's help.

Pretty sure responding with only "yea/mhmm/okay" is what people call the barest minimum while actually replying to his complaint is a step or two above it. Sure her face looks like she doesn't care but I know some people who doesn't look like they're listening but is actually the opposite.

Nothing really is stopping her from engaging in a little small talk.

She was already laying in the sand with her eyes closed practically a step away from falling asleep. Granted I get that she could spontaneously think of Zetsuran then connect it to Sandra, but wouldn't she preferred just to sleep?

It's hard to say that it was well-thought out. There was no preparation for it. Twilight-kun's anxiety probably just rubbed her the wrong way, and the words just spilled out. As I've mentioned, it helps that the ohagi was there to remind her of Leo-kun's back. And of course, she's already seen Leo-kun in the future.

Her words were very surgical for something that spilled out, sure the ohagi were there and seeing goat-dad making them influenced her thought process, but those were the words she needs, Twily was anxious about disappointing goat-daddy and everyone else and she answers that everyone especially goat-daddy loves him proven by the ohagi he made.

Also about the ohagi, I interpreted that she often seen Demon-monk happily making ohagi for Twilight whenever she's up to her antics (hence why she said it's hard). But supposing that was her first time seeing Demonk making ohagi, wouldn't it take some pretty good perception and understanding to discern that it's difficult (unless you think the princess thinks anything cooking related is difficult or is lying to little Twilight).

 

[jonsmth]

@nutman451

Pretty sure responding with only "yea/mhmm/okay" is what people call the barest minimum while actually replying to his complaint is a step or two above it.

I wouldn't say that's listening anymore, but I guess it's just a difference in our values. Even then, Suya was actually really close to doing that with that long silence before she tells Nudist to do something. We could owe it to her tact that she isn't going to simply say "okay", or maybe she just wants it to be over and an empathic "yeah" would have instead made Nudist rant some more.

but wouldn't she preferred just to sleep?

She doesn't have to concentrate on sleeping. It's like when we intend to go to sleep, we don't immediately fall unconscious. Sometimes, we just lie down a while and maybe entertain a passing thought for as long as we can.

Her words were very surgical for something that spilled out, sure the ohagi were there and seeing goat-dad making them influenced her thought process, but those were the words she needs, Twily was anxious about disappointing goat-daddy and everyone else and she answers that everyone especially goat-daddy loves him proven by the ohagi he made.

It is, but there's plenty of precedent. It's like one of those tropes that you see on visual novels where a particular dialogue choice only appears when you went through certain scenes. Hard to say it's well-thought out as there isn't even any indication that Suya thought about it in excess, but the ideas are already there. Also, i don't think Suya ever said or implied that everyone loves Twilight-kun; this was just between Twilight and Leo.

 

[nutman451]

@jonsmth
I think our discussion has gone in to so minute details that they have lost all any value in analysis. Don't you feel like we're going in circles?

We could owe it to her tact that she isn't going to simply say "okay", or maybe she just wants it to be over and an empathic "yeah" would have instead made Nudist rant some more.

I'm not even sure what we're arguing about anymore. Are we talking about if she cares about Nudist's problems?

It's like when we intend to go to sleep, we don't immediately fall unconscious. Sometimes, we just lie down a while and maybe entertain a passing thought for as long as we can.

Well thing is, if I talk or move when I want to sleep it only results with me not sleeping.

Hard to say it's well-thought out as there isn't even any indication that Suya thought about it in excess, but the ideas are already there.

Does well-thought out requires excess thought? I was thinking that she analyzes what Twilight's problem was then act's (in this case tell him that goat-daddy loves him).

Also, i don't think Suya ever said or implied that everyone loves Twilight-kun; this was just between Twilight and Leo.

Aw, now you're just nitpicking. Point is, she said to Twilight what he needs/wants to hear. stop being mean to me *pouts*

 

[jonsmth]

@nutman451

I think our discussion has gone in to so minute details that they have lost all any value in analysis. Don't you feel like we're going in circles?

Typically happens when the discussion turns into trying to go over every point one by one. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not even sure what we're arguing about anymore. Are we talking about if she cares about Nudist's problems?

iirc, you thought Suya had incredible insight and had all the answers (correct me if i'm wrong) while I was saying to the effect that it was just routine for Suya at that point so Nudist's topic was low effort and low interest. to clarify it a bit more, anyone else would have probably told Nudist the same things knowing what the 3 brothers are going through.

Well thing is, if I talk or move when I want to sleep it only results with me not sleeping.

I suppose it would be different for some people. either way, she might have been interested enough in Zetsuran to want to talk about her rather than go to sleep right away. there was no indication that Suya saw Zetsuran behind the couch, so there is no reason to get Sandora to say things Zetsuran will hear. the conversation didn't lead to anything, so if Suya was trying to be matchmaker, she wouldn't just fall asleep without resolving anything.

Does well-thought out requires excess thought? I was thinking that she analyzes what Twilight's problem was then act's (in this case tell him that goat-daddy loves him).

Well-thought out requires rigor (I didn't have the right word for it at the time I wrote "excess"). There was no time to practice rigor, she never rehearsed it, and there was no depiction of her thinking of choosing the right words to say. I don't think she analyzed it at all. She doesn't have to analyze it if she empathizes with it. It's hard to describe, but it would be like how a comedian instantly retorts or quips at an improv or even just a passing comment. If anything, she already knows about the bond those two has, so it would have been easy for her to say, "no, you're wrong". going back a few more chapters, i found that the first page of ch200 seems to have a lot more meaning now than when i first came upon it.

Aw, now you're just nitpicking. Point is, she said to Twilight what he needs/wants to hear

Well, there was plenty enough ambiguity within that scene due to the translation, so I thought there was still some misinterpretation.

 

[nutman451]

@jonsmth

iirc, you thought Suya had incredible insight and had all the answers (correct me if i'm wrong)

Yea that's my initial complaint (though I feel our discussion has devolved in to arguing if she cared or not)

while I was saying to the effect that it was just routine for Suya at that point so Nudist's topic was low effort and low interest. to clarify it a bit more, anyone else would have probably told Nudist the same things knowing what the 3 brothers are going through.

Honestly if I have to re-re-re-re-read the chapter again I might start a school shooting, so I'll concede out of attrition.

the conversation didn't lead to anything, so if Suya was trying to be matchmaker, she wouldn't just fall asleep without resolving anything.

If we're going by content alone, I suppose. But add in the fact that Sandra couldn't maintain his expression (blushing like crazy) and Suya was looking at him from time to time with a smile. Could be interpreted as her judging how far she's gone in wrenching open his heart and when she felt she's gone far enough for today she went to sleep satisfied.

yes I re-read the chapter for the nth time because I like smiling zetsuran, she's cute. At this point I'm replying out of masochistic obligation rather than curiosity

Well-thought out requires rigor (I didn't have the right word for it at the time I wrote "excess"). There was no time to practice rigor, she never rehearsed it, and there was no depiction of her thinking of choosing the right words to say.

Hmm if that's how you define it then perhaps I miss-word it. I certainly didn't mean she had to practice or rehearse what to say. But there is a brief pause after saying "No!" could be her choosing her words.

She doesn't have to analyze it if she empathizes with it. It's hard to describe, but it would be like how a comedian instantly retorts or quips at an improv or even just a passing comment. If anything, she already knows about the bond those two has, so it would have been easy for her to say, "no, you're wrong".

Well she does understand what's bothering little Twilight so I agree that she empathizes with him, but going back to my "Her words were very surgical for something that spilled out", I'd imagine if she'd appeal more to his emotions (I'm not sure how to explain this). Instead she chose a sentence that answers his underlying worries and puts them to rest.

Before we start arguing what his underlying problem is, Do you think he's worried about only Demon-monk disliking him for relying on others, The other Demons including Demon-monk disliking him for not able to be independent, or Him disliking himself for relying on others/not being independent.

going back a few more chapters, i found that the first page of ch200 seems to have a lot more meaning now than when i first came upon it.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who benefited from this discussion
Now if only you suffered for it too, then I can call it even.

 

[IrregularPerson]

poseidon likes being pampered ke

 

[Candymon]

Suya has fit legs #goals

Princess Suya vs Princess Era: who would kill off ocean life faster?

 

[Mothflower]

In this chapter Poseidon said that Hades left for Twilight. He actually mentioned this in chapter 134. Hades left without saying anything to Poseidon. Poseidon probably thinks that Hades doesn't care about how he feels which may be another reason why he doesn't like Twilight's and Hades' relationship much. Also last chapter Princess says that she heard it somewhere before when Poseidon started to tell her about why he can't get along with Twilight. She has. It was in chapter 134 but she probably forgot about it since it wasn't important to her at the time.

 

[KuroeNekumi]

wow, it only took 4 pages to understand what the princess was trying to do! I'm getting better at this...

no idea what that means about my state of mind, but at least it's a nice feeling to have