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starts out interesting, turns into a edge mess. MC is unlikeable
Meccha Shoukan Sareta Ken
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MC is a PoS, and the "moral" the story tries to paint as a good thing is pure self-centeredness; it's awful. Everything else is actually really good. 8-9/10 before the philosophy and the MC, 1/10 after.
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am I misreading it then? i feel like the story never tries to say "MC good," but rather lets MC say the bullshit he wants and force it through by overwhelming force anyways, because objectively everyone besides aliyah (and the other heroes) is more or less an asshole
like, the philosophy on a meta pov is nothing more than "at the end of the day, ideals only go so far as power does" which is very applicable.
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i love it when the characterization is obvious and even a bit overbearing but people can't analyze for shit, lmao.
10 whole chapters of "MC's kinda a dick" and people still complain when the situation degenerates and he continues to be an asshole, like, have you never heard of anti-heroes or, god forbid, non-hero [and i don't mean in the context of in-world labels, but in terms of overall evaluation] protags?
like, he's drawn as devilish, he admits his sociopathy, he's tolerated because the circumstances are just that shit, and in every depiction he's an asshole (besides the physical training in the daylight), and readers here still somehow think the story is painting him in a good light... simply cuz we listen to his thoughts and (not even that severely) warped logic
10 whole chapters of "MC's kinda a dick" and people still complain when the situation degenerates and he continues to be an asshole, like, have you never heard of anti-heroes or, god forbid, non-hero [and i don't mean in the context of in-world labels, but in terms of overall evaluation] protags?
like, he's drawn as devilish, he admits his sociopathy, he's tolerated because the circumstances are just that shit, and in every depiction he's an asshole (besides the physical training in the daylight), and readers here still somehow think the story is painting him in a good light... simply cuz we listen to his thoughts and (not even that severely) warped logic
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You’re being so pedantic that you’re missing the point people are making. That wall of text you’re explaining is basically why none of us like this story. The MC isn’t likeable, he does nothing of redeemable value, and he doesn’t behave at all like someone you can root for. That’s a shit story.
Take Arifureta for examaple. The MC does act like a jerk and is put in multiple horrible situations. But that MC is still a good person and his behavior is seen by all to be rooted in trauma. He has understandable motivations of getting revenge for what happened to him, he cares for his friends, and the bigger motivation is for him to get home.
This MC has nothing like that to keep most people interested. I have no clue what the hell this guy wants. I don’t even know why he’s not just fucking off on his own drinking blood and taking riches. His power set also makes zero sense which adds to the frustration.
this entire story is a confusing shit show with an unlikeable MC. With his power accumulation he should be in a better position. With his experience, he should have some motivation to get revenge on the gods. With his suffering he should want something of substance. But all he is presented as is an edge lord proto-incel. And that’s not compelling. This story has potential but it’s total dogshit. 3/10
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your analysis is riddled with flaws, lmao.
the MC having to be "likeable" (which you repeat later) or "do things of redeemable value" is irrelevant to a story's quality under most definitions (mine being, how many kernels of truth does the story have). The MC makes a good point as a horrific fucking person and displays how much of a sociopath he is and how he thinks given that. The story hasn't gone far enough for anyone to be making fixed judgements, and if you ever chastise a person for 'quitting on a story' I'll remind you of this hypocrisy, so hopefully you never do.
I don't remember enough of that power trip fantasy to care.
to fuck around and find out. This is what I mean, his whole goal is to fuck around and find out (it's painfully obvious on a second read), and not have to deal with complicated shit unless it's part of fucking around and finding out. He's a goddamn sociopath and he admits as much, and then there's people like you who'll go into a rant when trying to understand a fucking sociopath by normal socially functioning human standards.
you're reading it sideways, ofc it's confusing.
To put it more bluntly, you're trying to measure volume with a meterstick and complaining that it's hard. Ofc it's hard, you're measuring a spheroid's volume, not a cylinder's, with a fucking meterstick.
????? it wasn't the gods who screwed him over, it was a whole lotta individual summoners. as far as he knows he just got excessively unlucky with the summons. As for the goddess siccing the hero on him, he's irritated, but evidently not actually that much if his reaction is merely wanting to punch a fucking goddess.
and out comes the meterstick again. what if, and hear me out, he doesn't give enough fucks, at this point? what if, holy shit, he's just "over it"? what if, and get this, he's just gaming?
??? as opposed to incel, he's more virulently asocial.
sure, to you. it's an 8.19 (somehow, lmao) and I haven't even bothered to rate this.
Anyways, the only thing our convo has told me is that the western manga audience hates any story with a less-than-stellar (in terms of self-insertion) MC. I mean, I knew as much with World Trigger, but man.
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I’m not reading anything past this. It won’t be worth it. We disagree. You’re the outlier here since nearly everyone who’s read past chapter 10 in this thread agrees that this story is trash. Good day.
Rest assured good people, this story is garbage. It doesn’t take long for you to see that.
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never heard of vocal minority, huh. If it's actually trash, it wouldn't get past 7.5 total ratings; that a pile of folks missed the point completely and decided to whine about it isn't necessarily the fault of the manga or even representative of the whole.
Anyways, ego much?
Posting a reply and then ignoring further criticism, truly the snowflake of our time lmfao. Intellectual endurance of a fucking NEET. Yeah I'm shamelessly taunting you, lmao.
Hell, check chapter 26 comments, at least 8 people have gotten the point. "outlier" my ass, lmao.
Edit: Sorry, that's an insult to NEETs. Some legitimately have tried, and gotten traumatized for their efforts. Your ass is worse than the middle school delinquents, except ostensibly you aren't one.
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Dex-chan lover
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you know i actually am a little pissed, so, i'll go roleplay you for a bit
i'll display your pompousness, here:
you wanna know why you mfers like arifureta and can't get the point of this story? it's cuz all you're looking for in manga is self-insertion, you all wanna be the fucking badass going on a power fantasy, and you don't want to deal with the fact that chances are you're just as likely to take it as a game and go socio-path instead, especially if you end up having to repeat shit or go through days of repeat summoning.
You can't imagine a story where you're not supposed to like the MC at all, you can't handle a story where the MC and most others are simply dipshits, and honestly? I don't know why. Maybe you just haven't read enough shit. Maybe you're all still freshmen high schoolers, or maybe you forgot all about story.
I sure as hell hope you don't do jobs in design, because damn a huge portion of the design space will always be locked off to you. lmao.
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You don’t know me asshole.
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and you missed the point of the story, didn't stop you from casting a permanent judgement and trying to end the conversation unilaterally LMAO
Honestly if you weren't planning on listening to the other party at all you're better off just not responding, it's not dms, it's an online forum, if someone were to bug you after the fact you could easily say "well i have a life and didn't feel like adding anything more." But no, you just had to come up with a half-assed excuse and try to conclude the convo forevermore cuz someone was slightly abrasive on the internet. Again, pompousness. And at the same time, insecurity, cuz you had to rely on popular appeal within the thread. It's almost, almost at the level of "well I have more funny internet points than you do!!!" of terminally online folk.
Honestly, I'd already shelved this convo away mentally, i didn't actually expect you to respond to the obvious provocation of all things. But of course, you missed the point, cuz that's your specialty or something. Lmao.
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An useless guy in the day, a cringe lord in the night.
What's the obsession of this author to make the MC edgier every single episode for no reason? You can make a likeable and savage MC at the same time and go well but here is not the case.
MC has no personality or purpose in life. He got semi-op by pure luck, got fucked up in the head in the process and after that he just knows to spit chuuni ass cringe dialogues the entire time, do nothing but massacres without a reason. Author likes to play with the "He became a monster, a villain" a bit too much to the point that story goes nowhere with tons of gore, battles and blood everywhere as decoration. You can tell author doesn't know what to do in chapter 8 with the Fenrir. The plot of the coup was interesting, the reasons were valid, it was a good twist to the wholesome moment, but the end of the princess, how the MC acted like an asshole for absolutely no reason (as always) leaving her in a dead end just to be killed and made her a follower (if you don't care about her or sympathize... Then why heal her and make her a follower in the first place?) made it feel bad. It was promising at first, but this is leading nowhere, what the hell is the author going to do now? MC is the type who doesn't give a fuck, let things boil by itself and then kill everyone because yeah, he doesn't know how to do other thing. He doesn't have an ambition, princess and the other guys lost everything, now what?
It's like putting some lemon juice to your food to make it tastier but a seed fell, you didn't notice and bite it, leaving a sour and bad taste in the mouth at the end.
"I can't feel anything after killing someone" "I can understand but not sympathize" bla bla bla bla
What's the obsession of this author to make the MC edgier every single episode for no reason? You can make a likeable and savage MC at the same time and go well but here is not the case.
MC has no personality or purpose in life. He got semi-op by pure luck, got fucked up in the head in the process and after that he just knows to spit chuuni ass cringe dialogues the entire time, do nothing but massacres without a reason. Author likes to play with the "He became a monster, a villain" a bit too much to the point that story goes nowhere with tons of gore, battles and blood everywhere as decoration. You can tell author doesn't know what to do in chapter 8 with the Fenrir. The plot of the coup was interesting, the reasons were valid, it was a good twist to the wholesome moment, but the end of the princess, how the MC acted like an asshole for absolutely no reason (as always) leaving her in a dead end just to be killed and made her a follower (if you don't care about her or sympathize... Then why heal her and make her a follower in the first place?) made it feel bad. It was promising at first, but this is leading nowhere, what the hell is the author going to do now? MC is the type who doesn't give a fuck, let things boil by itself and then kill everyone because yeah, he doesn't know how to do other thing. He doesn't have an ambition, princess and the other guys lost everything, now what?
It's like putting some lemon juice to your food to make it tastier but a seed fell, you didn't notice and bite it, leaving a sour and bad taste in the mouth at the end.
"I can't feel anything after killing someone" "I can understand but not sympathize" bla bla bla bla
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Dex-chan lover
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??? it's been 20-some* chapters, why are you assuming he's "more edgy" and not "always this edgy" ??? It's literally still the setup-the-world phase.
i didn't know being shortsighted and narcissistic (and drunk on power and lazy as shit) was having "no personality." I'll be sure to correct people when they accuse actual doormats or 110% nice-guy-who-gets-everything of "having no personality." (/s)
war criminals don't have a reason to be war criminals half the time but that doesn't fucking stop them now does it. Instead the guy who tries to report the war criminals gets murked for his trouble.
EDIT:
anyways, for the castle bonanaza, he makes it pretty fucking clear. "I don't wanna get interrogated or face the cleanup crew or get chased down by mfers. I want this political bullshit to end here. Now. So, no witnesses (besides the ones I find useful), and I can say whatever the fuck I want."
I'm gonna go ahead and assume you've never read brave new world, killing hope, or blackshirts and reds. I haven't even read the last one.
I'll grant that the story hasn't gone far, but 'nowhere' is a bit of an understatement. lmfao. Either way it's a collective decision regarding how many panels to spend on the admittedly gruesome depictions, cuz we haven't gotten far in terms of the webnovel chapters.
MC is a self-centered prick and does things on impulse. Being an asshole as soon as something pokes him the wrong way is part of the MC, especially in his current state. Sure it's not a particularly good reason, but MC is a fucking high schooler, and one of the "idgaf" type at that. Do you make this same kind of comment when reading CotE? when the first page or so ayano pulls the exact same kind of self-serving chuuni bullshit (actually, it's closer to eugenicism but regardless, fucking horrid cringe) but dressed with a pretty coat of paint?
Regarding how he treats Aaliyah, he makes it clear - he doesn't want to bother with someone who will actively resist him/pull him aside for shit he doesn't want to do, so he's gonna sit back until the environment makes conditions better for him. It's the thing Raidou/Makoto pulled in Tsukimichi in rotsgard, where he waits a bit for the emergency to develop so he doesn't accidentally succumb to prevention paradox.
Regarding his incessant taunts and application of puppeteering, yeah they're horrific from a war crimes standpoint. Nobody gives a fuck about war crimes tho as evidenced by liberal usage of large scale fire magic. Absent the ethical condemnation, it's a fast way to lower the guard of your target and thus speed up the process.
why do mfers like you demand a reason for assholes to be assholes? some people, by entitlement or otherwise, turn out to be gigantic assholes. Winston Churchill the Prime Minister was a huge fucking asshole if you read his texts on Indians or Irish or even on Jews pre WW2.
Or is it because the karma is not in fact fast acting? Or what?
Not to mention there are some chekov's artifacts buried by the author, that we simply haven't gotten to unpack yet.
And you have the gall to fucking Strike me, lmfao. Do it again.
EDIT 2:
also, what's up with "likeable MCs," there are many isekai MCs that are by no means "likeable" for me. For example, that mfer from "woke up in a spaceship, decided to become a merc" who murders the unfortunates of society on the regular, sees firsthand the noble struggles and excesses, and says "this is a totally fine and normal political and societal system," the very image of petty bourg cringe. But the author wants to dress him up as a totally Good PersonTM and that's almost enough to make me want to burn it. The overwhelming number of MCs who unabashedly indulge in slavery (this is enough for a swift condemnation. If you don't fear a bit more work there's plenty of ways to NOT DO THIS and still get your shit done.) There's more specific examples but I'd have to go look, because I actively drop these kinds of stories once it gets particularly obvious for me.
In any case the author here's more or less setting it up so the MC has to go through some shit (it remains to be seen exactly what) and is perfectly aware that the MC's a gigantic fucking asshole, so on this count alone it's better than a fair few of other series.
EDIT 3: oh i forgot about youjo senki, where the MC is the very image of a corporate drone, wholly unlikeable for me. I'll begrudgingly admit they have ability, but in no case will I ever "like" them and their HR mindset. Lmfao. The MC of book isekai, a librarian who loves to read but besides small crafts has fuck all knowledge of industrial production which makes the social conditions to get more good novels and stories written, and then more or less joins the nobility and noodles around there. Do I hate her? No, not particularly. Do I like her? No, lmfao. I dropped it, though that was more due to me losing interest in the plot than specifically her.
Ending Maker, Jude is constantly straddling the edge of grooming if not waltzing right over it, and both of them are elitist as fuck. HARD PASS.
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Dex-chan lover
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in the west we love to pull out Animal Farm like it's a story worth anything, anything at all.
Animal Farm is a children's book where orwell mentally pleasures himself as he shits on workers and calls them too dumb to read or think. (i'm loosely using Makoto's terminology here with reference to Tomoki and his usage of charm) https://redsails.org/jones-on-animal-farm/
Life is weirder than a fever dream, and especially discourse in the english-speaking sphere. Lol. Considering the reception to animal farm you'd think people would celebrate the MC here for shitting on kind people the way orwell shits on workers, but apparently MC said the quiet part too loud.
In any case, (some) people assumed shit and then let their assumptions guide their reading instead of the other way around, and now are crying kicking and screaming when the author "pulls the rug" (read: goes anywhere they didn't expect)
Author takes plot seriously after a few opening premises and people lose their shit.
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Fed-Kun's army
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Reaction to story like this is funny to me. People have a weird idea that an mc of a story has to be good or "right" in some way. They never seem to just sit back and enjoy a story about a mad man spouting bullshit and go on a killing spree. They always need some reason to be able to support the mc otherwise the story is bad, or cringe, or w/e other adjective. As far as I am concern this is a horror isekai along the line of Freddy or Jason, with more magic. Sit back, enjoy the show and stop trying to join a mc fan club.
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I don't really care that much about MC's personality, he is actually fun. But I kind of hate the story where everyone besides the MC is stupid or weak. It would be interesting if the side characters could argue with him or whatever. Rather than, "Oh no he is so strong. Therefore he is right."
