Merge "Shoujo Ai" tag with "Yuri" :planned:

[RirRir]

@Plykiya What will separate the genre in the way it currently is? I will read what is currently labeled as Yuri, Shoujo ai and Shounen ai but stay away what is labeled as Yaoi. How will I these new/reworked tags be labeled to find exactly what I want?

 

[Plykiya]

@RirRir Shoujo ai right now, using the western definition (non-sexual girl on girl), would be Girl's love without suggestive/erotica/pornographic content and with/without the romance tag (your preference)

Yuri right now, using the western definition (sexual girl on girl), would be Girl's love with suggestive/erotica/pornographic and with/without the romance tag (your preference)

in the end, you just find the girl's love content you want based on what level of sexual content you wanna see in it and whether you want it to have actual romance

 

[RirRir]

@Plykiya Thanks for the clarification

 

[Nevri]

@Plykiya

tag is being renamed girl's love because unlike with yuri there is no western definition known by a large group that makes it difficult to tag, like people who think yuri should only apply to sexual shit

I totally understand that. Just really like the name.

it doesn't matter what level of gay shit it is, it's getting thrown in there and people will know it's "subtext" because there'll be no romance tag

That's actually great way to fix "subtext" issue.

speaking of which, girl's love is absolutely not a replacement for a romance tag and romance tags need to be added to a fuck ton of series because for some reason it's being left out when there's actual romance going on (had a series where two girls are literally getting married, saw no romance tag)

Most likely because shoujo ai/yuri so far specifically implied romance between 2 girls, so people tagging it didn't feel the need to add romance tag as well. Especially since in a lot of other sites, romance is used exclusively for het romance.

 

[Plykiya]

@Nevri Yeah, it's an unfortunate sacrifice. Like how we nuked genderbender so that it could be split between crossdressing and genderswap. Lot of people still use the term genderbender even when talking about the two categories, people will probably end up still using yuri in conversations over girl's love

 

[Teasday]

_{@igenetycs posted:}

For example, some would say K-On! is subtext. Is that now a "Girls' Love" series?

I really don't think we're going to need a tag for "some might conceivably argue that this series features girls who may or may not have homosexual feelings for each other"

That's a value judgement, not a description of the content which is what our tags are for

 

[igenetycs]

@Teasday Agreed, it would be an unnecessary mess. I was concerned when it was said that subtext will be included, but upon clarification, it seems that is not the case.

 

[ilcane87]

@ilcane87 'subtext' is getting included in girl's love

it doesn't matter what level of gay shit it is, it's getting thrown in there and people will know it's "subtext" because there'll be no romance tag

speaking of which, girl's love is absolutely not a replacement for a romance tag and romance tags need to be added to a fuck ton of series because for some reason it's being left out when there's actual romance going on (had a series where two girls are literally getting married, saw no romance tag)

@Goggledanon absolutely right, gay admiration is getting thrown in there
doesn't matter if it's reciprocated, rejected, doesn't go anywhere, etc

one gay kiss between two people in one chapter (naruto) doesn't turn the series gay but subtle gay shit like in shinozaki-san definitely would get the girl's love tag since "love" can be present without the romance tag

ALL GAY ALL DAY
EVERYONE'S HOMO IN 2019

I'm loving this solution, thumbs up for whoever came up with it.
Wish more websites attempted a similar policy for yuri content.

 

[crazybars]

@Plykiya

Okay, Thank you, I get it now. The sexual content rating will be based on a similar system to this? Sounds good.

https://danbooru.donmai.us/wiki_pages/howto:rate



I am so glad I deleted my embarrassing wall of Text jumping the gun.

 

[Symuri]

Just want to say, I love this solution. Thank you very much. I always wanted to be a volunteer, do a search for all manga that tagged as shoujo-ai, but not Yuri, then change it to Yuri. But too afraid that the admin would take my ability to edit

 

[mmosimca]

I worry about this solution somewhat. A lot of things tagged Shoujo Ai don't even remotely deserve to be tagged GL.

For example, 2 side characters flirting (not even kissing) for one panel in the final chapter of a manga currently can get it a Shoujo Ai tag (and people will justify it because maybe those characters blushed a few times previously when alone with each other).

I think the change is alright but people will probably need to up the standards of what 'GL' is to a minimum of "an explicitly-stated attraction of one female character to another for a reasonable amount of chapters or an acknowledgement of a relationship".

To be specific, some of my favorite Yuri stories have no sexual content tags at all but the entire series is focused around a Yuri relationship (ex. Whispering You A Love Story). I am worried that series like this will get buried under a landslide of Shoujo Ai-tagged series with virtually no real GL. Fans gushing over somebody blushing in a comments section and inventing their own relationships that the authors will never depict is not something I care about remotely, so I've purposefully left off the Shoujo Ai tag when searching.

Those series should be untagged with GL in the future to preserve real GL content.

Edit: The romance tag solution proposed above isn't an acceptable solution because romance between heterosexual characters in the same series with GL "subtext" will still ruin search results for people who don't want fake GL results.

 

[Plykiya]

@mmosimca Two side characters flirting for one panel doesn't get the shoujo ai or the girl's love tag. Our content tags are used when it's representative of the work as a whole, not just what happens to literally any character. A series that features crossdressing 1% of the time but ignores it the rest of the time wouldn't get the crossdressing tag. A series with gay people in the background that aren't at all the focus of the manga aren't going to get the girl's love tag

Romance doesn't have to be explicitly-stated for it to be romance, neither will the girl's love tag need this as a requirement

 

[GoggledAnon]

Also one quick nitpick to get out of the way in that the genre is spelled Girls' Love (ie. more than one girl's love), not Girl's Love.

 

[mmosimca]

I guess I won't be able to judge the scope of the problem until the change is actually implemented, but I hope it won't be as bad as I fear.

To some extent, I always have to read over comments first to see if the series has what I want (relationship progress). This is because it is hard to know which genre is dominant. Futaribeya is a good example of this. It would be a Yuri genre candidate (and may be in the near future - the protagonists did kiss in a recent chapter), but the comedy is the dominant genre by far. Romance is there but it is a small element compared to comedy.

I just hope that this change doesn't add in loads of mangas with heterosexual romance plots and GL subtext into Romance+GL search results, as that would be a substantial decrease in usability for me.

 

[GoggledAnon]

@mmosimca Alas, there is no tag to accomodate for personal taste. You're stuck with the tried and true "read it and form your own opinion" method.

 

[Thorn344]

But I wanna drown myself in gay.

 

[0qc]

You should really just keep it named yuri, most people nowadays already understand it as it's understood in Japanese, the few who don't would get used to it quickly, and most things are already tagged that way, so switching to Girl's Love is a totally pointless change. It's heavy handed change for the sake of change for you use a term which, in the west, isn't really used at all.

 

[igenetycs]

@0qc While I agree that the ideal solution would be to call it Yuri (or alternatively, adding a f/f, f/m, m/m tagging system as was suggested earlier in the thread), I think they settled on "Girls' Love" to try and bridge the gap / reduce complaints. A lot of people on this site seem to hold onto the archaic "yuri = overly sexual lesbian stories" definition. It's just easier to sidestep that issue entirely by using the functionally identical, if unpopular, "Girls' Love" term.

 

[Teasday]

@0qc It's a combination of using an English term over a Japanese one, and more importantly, as igenetycs implied, having less Western baggage associated with it

 

[the_descolada]

On the topic of what someone said earlier about how shimanami tasogare would kinda skirt around some of this as it does right now, why not also add a general LGBT tag? There are a lot of stories that would fall under this (it would also give people the option to drown themself in gay, as was said earlier) and I can only see it as a positive addition to the tags. On that topic....transgender tag when? Feels pretty bad to be reading an extremely trans focused manga with either no mention of that in the tags, or it being reduced to "crossdressing".